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My daughter doesn't like this shot. She says it blocks the Lighthouse. Any thoughts?
- Thread starter Jim Olson
- Start date
Michael Nagel
Well-known member
I will not cast a vote, but I have a few questions you might answer or not:
- Where is the focus in this picture? I see an overall softness - was this intended?
- What is the main subject here: the lighthouse with or without the buildings nearby, the entire scenery, something else?
- What is the purpose of the posts and the structure in front of the lighthouse in your picture?
- Was it possible for you to move freely in choosing your viewpoint?
Jim Olson
Well-known member
I would be happy to answer any questions.
My focus was to capture the light on the lighthouse and softness for the mood.
I presume the main subject would be the lighthouse.
The posts (I believe) are for a pier long gone or maybe for crabbing. The location is 3 Crabs Rd.
And yes, we could have moved around. It was just a family outing on Christmas afternoon. Not a real big beach but at least a few 100 feet long.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Jim,
The picture, (out of the camera, apparently), is pale and likely, it has not been processed much.
This could be your taste and intent.
With, hopefully your allowance and forbearance, I have made quick adjustments using Snapseed on my iPhone, to edit your picture.
I have altered the contrast curve and increased the saturation.
Also I have cropped the picture to bring our eyes up to the interesting skyline with the buildings and tiny but pretty sinking sun.
I hope you might like the result.
We could easily delete the foreground poles. But that you can imagine that (and I need to do that on my computer as my finger tips are far to big), LOL!
If I was shooting this, I would be happy enough and just edit accordingly when I got home. If I had the possibility, I would use a longer lens and shoot over the foreground obstructions.
Asher
The picture, (out of the camera, apparently), is pale and likely, it has not been processed much.
With, hopefully your allowance and forbearance, I have made quick adjustments using Snapseed on my iPhone, to edit your picture.
I have altered the contrast curve and increased the saturation.
Also I have cropped the picture to bring our eyes up to the interesting skyline with the buildings and tiny but pretty sinking sun.
I hope you might like the result.
We could easily delete the foreground poles. But that you can imagine that (and I need to do that on my computer as my finger tips are far to big), LOL!
If I was shooting this, I would be happy enough and just edit accordingly when I got home. If I had the possibility, I would use a longer lens and shoot over the foreground obstructions.
Asher
Jim Olson
Well-known member
I did enhance just a bit but didn't change to much. I was going for a soft winters day. But I like what you did.
Also, I don't know if you saw the other shot I did. I just put it in a thumbnail but I'll do full size now
And I did use my 70-210mm telephoto
Also, I don't know if you saw the other shot I did. I just put it in a thumbnail but I'll do full size now
And I did use my 70-210mm telephoto
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Jim,
I doubt that was the color!
The sky is rich! But we can still be gentle with the hues.
I like it! Now the pole supported structure in the right does earn it place as an important distance reference element in the composition!
Asher
Tom dinning
Registrant*
Just some fiddling in between housework tasks.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
This was your original, Jim and it seemed that the skyline buildings and the sun were the subject of the matter!
But now I see Tom’s take on it and I have to rethink that assumption!
Who would have imagined that the foreground poles could be presented as important? I wonder how Missionaries go into a community and persuade the folk to believe in a dead young man from another culture as significant to their life outcome?
We obviously have built in skill to manipulate susceptibility to being persuaded of matters that are ephemeral.
What actually would make these poles seem important? Surely they would at least have to mark buried treasure, graves of ancestors or something else extraordinary, to naturally have ‘gravitas’ and “status” as a mental element, when we simply glance at your picture.
Actually these poles, likely as not, have almost no importance.
Nevertheless, the editing changes Tom has just made, clearly brings out the foreground water with the poles to become, through subtle changes, the most important feature in your composition.
I am so impressed by this and I am moved seeing this emotional result from simple technical changes! It’s both awe-inspiring and frightening, as it exposes our gullibility.
No wonder missionaries can replace 10,000 year old native cultures, essentially overnight!
Asher
But now I see Tom’s take on it and I have to rethink that assumption!
Who would have imagined that the foreground poles could be presented as important? I wonder how Missionaries go into a community and persuade the folk to believe in a dead young man from another culture as significant to their life outcome?
We obviously have built in skill to manipulate susceptibility to being persuaded of matters that are ephemeral.
What actually would make these poles seem important? Surely they would at least have to mark buried treasure, graves of ancestors or something else extraordinary, to naturally have ‘gravitas’ and “status” as a mental element, when we simply glance at your picture.
Actually these poles, likely as not, have almost no importance.
Nevertheless, the editing changes Tom has just made, clearly brings out the foreground water with the poles to become, through subtle changes, the most important feature in your composition.
I am so impressed by this and I am moved seeing this emotional result from simple technical changes! It’s both awe-inspiring and frightening, as it exposes our gullibility.
No wonder missionaries can replace 10,000 year old native cultures, essentially overnight!
Asher
Tom dinning
Registrant*
Thanks Ash.
I did enjoy the exercise.
I was sort of testing myself.
I read your responses to Ash’s questions, Jim, along with your wise daughters reflection.
i know why she doesn’t like it but it would be worth asking her if she can be specific. You might learn something.
Don’t be offended by what she says if she’s honest. She might be right and also give you something to think about.
I went with your mood and what you ‘presumed’ to be the focus of the scene. Mood is important but often requires some transformation in editing since a camera is saturnine piece of shit and will give you no sense of how you feel.
As for subject matter, your brain is sensitised to see what you want to see.
It’s a bit like having a conversation in a noisy pub. You try your hardest to listen to your friend so you block out the other notices. Trouble is, the other noice can be even more interesting.
Every scene presents a ‘what if?’
Our ‘what if’s’ are limited to our experiences, knowledge and ‘rules’ we have learned along the way.
My feeling is that, being a relative newcomer to photography, you’re still in the ‘realism’ mode. Ie the picture should turn out like the scene as you saw it.
You probably have a few basic rules in your head as well.
and your skills at editing will be limited.
it takes some practice and a few maturing years with total disregard to rules before you find how to get where you want to get.
There ain’t no shortcut. And don’t rely on the opinions of others as to what is right or wrong with your pictures.
my version is mine, not yours. It’s not better or worse: it’s different.
I did enjoy the exercise.
I was sort of testing myself.
I read your responses to Ash’s questions, Jim, along with your wise daughters reflection.
i know why she doesn’t like it but it would be worth asking her if she can be specific. You might learn something.
Don’t be offended by what she says if she’s honest. She might be right and also give you something to think about.
I went with your mood and what you ‘presumed’ to be the focus of the scene. Mood is important but often requires some transformation in editing since a camera is saturnine piece of shit and will give you no sense of how you feel.
As for subject matter, your brain is sensitised to see what you want to see.
It’s a bit like having a conversation in a noisy pub. You try your hardest to listen to your friend so you block out the other notices. Trouble is, the other noice can be even more interesting.
Every scene presents a ‘what if?’
Our ‘what if’s’ are limited to our experiences, knowledge and ‘rules’ we have learned along the way.
My feeling is that, being a relative newcomer to photography, you’re still in the ‘realism’ mode. Ie the picture should turn out like the scene as you saw it.
You probably have a few basic rules in your head as well.
and your skills at editing will be limited.
it takes some practice and a few maturing years with total disregard to rules before you find how to get where you want to get.
There ain’t no shortcut. And don’t rely on the opinions of others as to what is right or wrong with your pictures.
my version is mine, not yours. It’s not better or worse: it’s different.
Robert Watcher
Well-known member
Here’s my play in Snapseed.
The image lacks dynamic angular lines. I emulated the effect with perspective control so that both the sky and water are moving angularly toward the viewer. The hill/mountain becomes much more prominent. Easier to focus attention. These are angles that I look for when shooting.
The image lacks dynamic angular lines. I emulated the effect with perspective control so that both the sky and water are moving angularly toward the viewer. The hill/mountain becomes much more prominent. Easier to focus attention. These are angles that I look for when shooting.
Last edited:
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Jim,
Your challenge has produced rich results. Robert Watcher’s contribution shows his long experience in preparing professional photographs for publication and the client’s walls.
I myself, once again would never have thought of his approach to create radial lines. It’s very creative and exemplary.
Nothing that anyone has done is the correct method. As what you do that satisfies your feelings, as Tom points out, is what you must ultimately do!
Don’t be intimidated by your own uncertainty, your daughters questioning or our different approaches.
Just ploughing forward and keep at it. That’s the secret to success. It takes endurance, seeing what pleases you and doing better tge next time!
Asher
Your challenge has produced rich results. Robert Watcher’s contribution shows his long experience in preparing professional photographs for publication and the client’s walls.
I myself, once again would never have thought of his approach to create radial lines. It’s very creative and exemplary.
Nothing that anyone has done is the correct method. As what you do that satisfies your feelings, as Tom points out, is what you must ultimately do!
Don’t be intimidated by your own uncertainty, your daughters questioning or our different approaches.
Just ploughing forward and keep at it. That’s the secret to success. It takes endurance, seeing what pleases you and doing better tge next time!
Asher
Jim Olson
Well-known member
Wow... That was amazing... I thank everyone input and I will keep moving forward to reach for new heights.
Thank you again for all you input.
I love what Rob did by editing my picture.
And I have been reading a couple of books on photographic and digital editing, so I may learn something. Who knows.
And my daughter keeps reminding me of the rule of thirds. I'll have to try and use that in the field. And she is here visiting from college and likes Rob edit also.
Thanks again Rob
Thank you again for all you input.
I love what Rob did by editing my picture.
And I have been reading a couple of books on photographic and digital editing, so I may learn something. Who knows.
And my daughter keeps reminding me of the rule of thirds. I'll have to try and use that in the field. And she is here visiting from college and likes Rob edit also.
Thanks again Rob
Last edited:
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Where are you located?
There must be a photography club/group meeting nearby!
Meanwhile shoot as often as possible.
Sometimes, stroll with just a black card with a 2cm x 3 cm square cutout, and practice framing scenes or people of interest with your lightweight “camera”.
At each stop, decide what is THE object of interest and then crouch, stretch or move in different viewing positions and discover how position of your camera “line of sight” changed what is included in your frame.
This skill is the essential beginning of composing in photography. I still so this when visiting new cities and then will return at sunset with my tripod, camera and lenses totally knowing what I will shoot.
Other times, I will walk around like a tourist and snap away at many possible targets of interest and amongst them might be 3-4 worth processing.
We look forward to regular submissions of your snaps and favorites, as we will all benefit from your journey to your own masterpiece!
Asher
Jim Olson
Well-known member
My location is Sequim Washington. Just about as far northwest as you can get in the lower 50. In the picture, the hill you see in the is San Juan Island, which is just one frame to the right of Canada. Literally. From that local, if I moved one frame to the left, I would have Victoria BC in the background.
Unfortunately, there is no clubs/groups near me. I just checked MeetUp and they are all in Seattle, Silverdale or Victoria BC since I live (as the crows flies) only 30 miles across water to Vic BC and 50 miles miles across water to Seattle. And Silverdale is about an 90 min drive. And since I work part time, and don't have a set scheduled yet, because I just transferred to this Michaels store in Aug, so Silverdale is out.
There is a Facebook group called Sequim WA that I can post and ask about photo groups. I didn't think about that until now. TNX
Oh, and I'm in a local group called Nextdoor and I can post there also... Wow... My brain just woke up... I guess that happens after my 2nd cup of coffee since I got up 3 hrs ago...
I like the black card idea and the excerise. I will have to try that.
Also Will is sending me another Canon camera (one he no longer uses) so I'll have one for my motorcycle and one to take with me in my SUV, or my wife's car.
Thank you for all the encouragement and a special TNX to Will Thompson for getting me back into photography after so many years away, (35mm back in the 70s & 80s) and for inviting me to the website.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Will is a great guy and knows Canon gear better than anyone except an old engineer hand making long lenses!
He also has fabulous lighting systems including old Norman packs that are very portable and some he has built in Pocket Wizard receivers, (knowing Will, they likely are transceivers too)!
The investment in that black key framing card pay off quickly as you will open up a range of original and unique possibilities as you crouch, bend, stretch, move your position entirely or climb on a chair or steps
1. To identify and include what’s interesting in a pleasing way.
2. Refine that to make it commanding and impressive, by optimizing the POV
3. To exclude what you can and yet be prepared to remove unmovable garbage in Photoshop or your favorite software.
4. To take the picture when the light is right.
When I do that is Italy, around Tuscany, with its unique lighting at the late afternoon, I am not at all pressed until the sky is changing at sunset and then everything is critical for about 20 minutes and I get my dream picture.
Street photography is different. A good way to start, is to to sit at an outside restaurant near a zebra crossing controlled by lights.
Study the flow of people and use your card where you will work out how to frame anyone coming towards you.
Then simply allow families, the kid with the dog, the old fellow with a beard leaning on his stick or the bicycle messenger walking into your imaginary “trap” as you shoot discretely from your seat, while chatting to your friend.
Afterwards you can be bold like Robert Watcher or Peter Dexter and catch people as you stroll through markets with your camera at the ready!
BTW, does your daughter approve of any of our edits, not that it matters really. In art, only you have to be pleased at the start of the process!
Good luck,
Asher
He also has fabulous lighting systems including old Norman packs that are very portable and some he has built in Pocket Wizard receivers, (knowing Will, they likely are transceivers too)!
The investment in that black key framing card pay off quickly as you will open up a range of original and unique possibilities as you crouch, bend, stretch, move your position entirely or climb on a chair or steps
1. To identify and include what’s interesting in a pleasing way.
2. Refine that to make it commanding and impressive, by optimizing the POV
3. To exclude what you can and yet be prepared to remove unmovable garbage in Photoshop or your favorite software.
4. To take the picture when the light is right.
When I do that is Italy, around Tuscany, with its unique lighting at the late afternoon, I am not at all pressed until the sky is changing at sunset and then everything is critical for about 20 minutes and I get my dream picture.
Street photography is different. A good way to start, is to to sit at an outside restaurant near a zebra crossing controlled by lights.
Study the flow of people and use your card where you will work out how to frame anyone coming towards you.
Then simply allow families, the kid with the dog, the old fellow with a beard leaning on his stick or the bicycle messenger walking into your imaginary “trap” as you shoot discretely from your seat, while chatting to your friend.
Afterwards you can be bold like Robert Watcher or Peter Dexter and catch people as you stroll through markets with your camera at the ready!
BTW, does your daughter approve of any of our edits, not that it matters really. In art, only you have to be pleased at the start of the process!
Good luck,
Asher
Jim Olson
Well-known member
Asher
Will is a pretty good guy (just don’t tell him I said that) and I have know him since he was 14 yrs old. We met on ham radio, and once he and I were talking on the his amateur radio repeater many yrs later, and I was just laid off from a company that I worked at for 7 yrs. They just one day closed up and that the company had been sold and was moved to Florida. The next day I went to work for Will and stayed for 7 more yrs, until I met my present wife and everything changed.
Also, speaking of Italy, my grandfather was born in Italy. My wife was born in Germany, so we really need to go to Europe some time.
And I’m going to make a black key framing card. Sounds like fun.
Also my daughter really likes the edit that Rob did…
And TNX for all the ideas… I will try them soon.
Jim
Will is a pretty good guy (just don’t tell him I said that) and I have know him since he was 14 yrs old. We met on ham radio, and once he and I were talking on the his amateur radio repeater many yrs later, and I was just laid off from a company that I worked at for 7 yrs. They just one day closed up and that the company had been sold and was moved to Florida. The next day I went to work for Will and stayed for 7 more yrs, until I met my present wife and everything changed.
Also, speaking of Italy, my grandfather was born in Italy. My wife was born in Germany, so we really need to go to Europe some time.
And I’m going to make a black key framing card. Sounds like fun.
Also my daughter really likes the edit that Rob did…
And TNX for all the ideas… I will try them soon.
Jim
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Yes,
Robert is amongst the most experienced Professional Photographers around. His edit was something I had never imagined and beautiful.
But still look again at the others edits. These are only a few of your freedom to put your own fingerprints on your work.
The unusual version if from Tom Dinning, a fellow from Darwin Australia , (who has made it his mission in life to make fun of others), takes a different angle entirely.
He chose to make the “nuisance” poles in the foreground, (that you would rather had not been there), and make them important and the strongest feature in your picture.
He did such a good job.
It’s not necessarily a good idea to turn everything upside down, as he does, but his very different approach does illustrate well the potential each of us has to leave our mark.
You see, we are not bound by the way the camera itself appears to see things!
That’s a pretty amazing idea and should be THE main lesson of this exercise.
Asher
Robert is amongst the most experienced Professional Photographers around. His edit was something I had never imagined and beautiful.
But still look again at the others edits. These are only a few of your freedom to put your own fingerprints on your work.
The unusual version if from Tom Dinning, a fellow from Darwin Australia , (who has made it his mission in life to make fun of others), takes a different angle entirely.
He chose to make the “nuisance” poles in the foreground, (that you would rather had not been there), and make them important and the strongest feature in your picture.
He did such a good job.
It’s not necessarily a good idea to turn everything upside down, as he does, but his very different approach does illustrate well the potential each of us has to leave our mark.
You see, we are not bound by the way the camera itself appears to see things!
That’s a pretty amazing idea and should be THE main lesson of this exercise.
Asher
Jim Olson
Well-known member
I did like all the edits and all the input.
I'm just learning how to use editors like RawTherpee, Shotwell & GIMP 2.10. that work with Linux because I HATE windows & I have used Linux for the past 8 yrs. But there is lots of YouTube videos on editing.
This site has a wealthy of knowledge and I’m very glad to be a part of it.
Jim
Jim Olson
Well-known member
And today the framing manager gave me a piece of black matte that I can use for my new light weight viewfinder
Jerome Marot
Well-known member
In the mean time, you posted several further pictures in other threads.
Your pictures are unusual. In all these pictures, there is something which your daughter might describe as "blocking the main subject".
"Blocking the main subject" is not something people usually want in their pictures, but apparently it is part of the way you see things. Maybe it is something you could explore and see where it brings you. After all a famous Belgian painter did this:
Your pictures are unusual. In all these pictures, there is something which your daughter might describe as "blocking the main subject".
"Blocking the main subject" is not something people usually want in their pictures, but apparently it is part of the way you see things. Maybe it is something you could explore and see where it brings you. After all a famous Belgian painter did this:
Jim Olson
Well-known member
One more shot of the lighthouse
