Profiles for a new Epson Photo Printer

[Mary Bull]

Dierk said, in part:

You should look for profiles for your monitors and your printer/ink/paper [Epson's canned profiles aren't bad], install them, set them where necessary.

Is it appropriate to ask here for a step-by-step on *where* to look for these profiles?

NB: I shall soon purchase an Epson, to replace my HP 722C inkjet that died last weekend after 8 years of faithful service.

And also Dierk said:

Essentially calibration and profiling is a standardised way to get experience into the work-flow. If you work with the same monitor, same printer, same ink, same paper, and you know their differences, you don't need another form of colour management.

Thank you so very much, Dierk! This is most reassuring.

I shall now go back to learning how to program my G2 in AV for better control of my RAW shooting.

Mary

 

[Mary Bull]

As Dierk knows, my plan is to buy the Epson printer when next my nephew who helps me is in town. So thanks for the additional tips, Asher.

@Dierk, the step-by-step advice is exactly presented in the way I can use it best. I have just this minute copied it to Notepad and printed it on the HP 3600n Laserjet for reference.

I never meant to use the laserjet for printing photos. It's just that by coincidence my HP 722C inkjet died after eight years faithful service at the same time that my little b/w HP 1300 laserjet developed a need for major maintenance.

My nephew wanted us to replace both that same Friday morning. I'm glad I didn't, since the likelihood is that I would have chosen another HP inkjet. Reason for buying only the one printer: we were both hungry, been more than 6 hours since breakfast. My nephew would have pursued the goal sans food, but I thought, First things first. Take care of blood-sugar levels, then further printer shopping. < grin >

My deep appreciation to everyone who has responded so generously to me in this thread.

Mary

 

[Dierk Haasis]

Naturally, I think (2) is a good investment. Maybe someday I'll find a research grant that will pay for (3), but I'm not holding my breath.

PrintFix Pro.

If you will go through the trouble of profiling one output device you should take the step to make custom profiles of much harder to handle output devices - the printers.

 

[Nill Toulme]

...If you will go through the trouble of profiling one output device you should take the step to make custom profiles of much harder to handle output devices - the printers.

Now that I do disagree with. There's an order of magnitude difference between the difficulty (and expense) of doing a reasonably good job of profiling/calibrating your monitors and profiling printers/papers. Conversely, there's no really good way of avoiding monitor profiling, but depending on the printers and papers you use, you can get extremely good results with either canned or outsourced custom profiles, at very moderate to zero expense. For the average user, the respective cost-benefit curves are almost inverse to each other.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

 

[Ray West]

Mary,

If you have a colour laser printer, then get the profile prism software as I previously mentioned. You will be surprised at the quality of print you can get. Then, at no extra expense, you can calibrate you new epson, if you need to buy one ;-), with any brand of ink/paper. and learn from Mike's excellant explanations on how this stuff works, sort out your monitor and camera too. That one piece of low cost software kit, with Qimage from the same guy, will answer all of the points mentioned by Dierk, and more, too. Its a 'one stop' solution.

Best wishes,

Ray

 

[Nill Toulme]

Dave I can maybe see going that route (or the Profile Prism route) if you're constantly experimenting with papers or just like to tinker. But for someone like myself who uses only a few papers, excellent professionally-produced profiles (like those from www.cathysprofiles.com) can be had with a lot less work and with no more cash outlay than what you describe, and I suspect that the results are superior.

In addition, for pro level printers like the Epson x800 series that come well calibrated from the factory and are accordingly very consistent from sample to sample, the freely available canned profiles from the printer and paper manufacturers and from third-party sources like Bill Atkinson (not that there's really any other source "like" Bill Atkinson...) are also excellent, and their cost, both in terms of effort and $$, is zero.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

 

[Mary Bull]

Mary's priorities for her photography hobby

Nill Toulme said, in part:

But for someone like myself who uses only a few papers, excellent professionally-produced profiles (like those from www.cathysprofiles.com) can be had with a lot less work and with no more cash outlay than what you describe, and I suspect that the results are superior.

And I appreciate this point. Perhaps this is a good place to list what I think of using my photography for, as I will probably be utilizing only glossy, matte, and semi-gloss papers--all I've ever used for the past 8 years with my now defunct HP 722C inkjet. (It broke a gear tooth):

1) Print for my next-door sister her tulips in bloom, as I did in April, 2005. And other things I see that I think would interest her around our yards and neighborhood.

2) Print for myself the scenes around me, wild and pet animals, and people who are close to me, when I find I've captured a good image with my G2.

And that's all.

I share photos far more widely by attaching jpegs with e-mails to my close friends and relatives. I would like to know that what I see on my monitor is reasonably close to what they see on their own monitors. Of course, that depends on the color-behavior of the monitors of those friends and relatives.

And most photos I will never print, even for myself. But if I have one in an image editor, I would like to know that any manipulation I do would not shock my new professional friends (and my one old--well, not in years, but in length of friendship--professional friend) here at OPF--due to my seeing on my own monitor something entirely different from what they see on theirs.

Example of my e-mail photo-sharing: Last night I caught one of my busy Texas sisters on-line and mailed her the unmanipulated file of the little Siamese cat that I posted in Retouch, Repair. Because she's on dial-up, I reduced it to 360 pixels.

She was absolutely entranced. Before even asking me, she printed it and wrote back how well she liked her print and how true the colors were to Siamese markings and eye color (just as Bev commented to me in my "Optimize This!" thread). She said she was going to give the print to a fellow third-grade teacher who also loves cats. I said, well, at least write my name on it. It's a pic I'm sort of proud of. And then, I remembered that I could put an overlay, so I did that and shipped her that file to print and take to our mutual friend.

So this is all I want.

I think that I will put all this monitor calibration on the back burner at least until I get my inkjet printer in hand.

I've been practicing shooting in AV mode at f2 most of the morning. Shot the mushrooms again. And the ripening holly berry. And a set of Virginia creeper leaves on the holly trunk.

I may, just may, on a rosebush leaf have captured a daddy-long-legs.

So, bye for now. I'm going to download the CF and see what I see.

Thanks a million to everyone for all the great information and links.

Mary

 

[Don Lashier]

Naturally, I think (2) is a good investment. Maybe someday I'll find a research grant that will pay for (3), but I'm not holding my breath. The reason (2) is so simple is that a "colorimeter" just measures three standard colors, chosen to match CRTs and LCDs, while the spectrophotometer can handle anything that you can see and some things that you can't.

Scott, I spent the $1.5K on a spectro, and while I consider it indispensible for profiling my printer I still prefer my Colorvision colorimeter for my display. It just produces an equal result IMO, and it offers better control.

- DL

 

[Asher Kelman]

Please keep on topic. This is for profiles on printers. Fun posts, greetings" "Layback cafe", LCD color to that thread.

Just my own view:

1. Buy an Epson Photo series printer
2.It comes with almost perfect profiles.

That will get you where you want. If you need the best prints and your monitor is profiled and you view it in opimal light, with no bright colors on you or in the room then:

3. Andrew Rodney or others on line can make you a custom profile for printing Nirvana. you'll get a special file which you print from photoshop on your chosen paper and then mail it to that person. It is that simple.)

Asher

 

[Diane Fields]

Please keep on topic. This is for profiles on printers. Fun posts, greetings" "Layback cafe", LCD color to that thread.

Just my own view:

1. Buy an Epson Photo series printer
2.It comes with almost perfect profiles.

That will get you where you want. If you need the best prints and your monitor is profiled and you view it in opimal light, with no bright colors on you or in the room then:

3. Andrew Rodney or others on line can make you a custom profile for printing Nirvana. you'll get a special file which you print from photoshop on your chosen paper and then mail it to that person. It is that simple.)

Asher

I agree with Asher and Nill here. The Epson printers now come with very good profiles and really don't need more than that unless you are working at a professional level or are very critical about your prints.

Mary, when you buy your printer (and I didn't see above which one you are considering--or missed it), then the profiles will come with the printer. If you are not using Photoshop (and I've missed some conversations these past several weeks as I was in Maine on vacation), then trying to use paper profiles for specific papers will be more difficult. I'm not sure what app you will be printing from--that will certainly make a difference. Otherwise--you may be as well off letting the printer do the color management (not what I do--but for your situation, then I suspect it will work fine).

Color management is not for the weak of heart LOL---and I don't create my own profiles though I work in a color managed environment with a calibrated monitor and paper profiles with my Epson 2200 (soon to be a 3800 I hope). I think for the casual printer it may be asking too much and not at all necessary. Just my own opinion, but I get a lot of questions from others on other forums about this and find that most photographers don't want or need to work this way for prints to be given to friends and family or put in an album.

Diane

 

[Dierk Haasis]

I recommended an R800 since Mary won't need anything bigger but will ,ost likely be very pleased by the results of the K3 inks the R800 offers. Regardless of the quality of the standard all purpose profiles it comes with, Epson and other paper manufacturers offer very good individual paper-ink-combo profiles.

With QImage [if she decides to go with it] she may even start to really print ...

 

[Diane Fields]

I recommended an R800 since Mary won't need anything bigger but will ,ost likely be very pleased by the results of the K3 inks the R800 offers. Regardless of the quality of the standard all purpose profiles it comes with, Epson and other paper manufacturers offer very good individual paper-ink-combo profiles.

With QImage [if she decides to go with it] she may even start to really print ...

That's a good point Dierk. I use 3rd party papers and in some cases their profiles are very good. With Qimage she can take advantage of paper profiles and if she chooses to go this route, I think she will be even happier with her prints. Its also a wonderfully easy app to use for printers, newcomers or oldtimers. You can use one of their paper sizes for your printing or make your own custom size and layout. It offers a lot--and Mike Chaney is always upgrading it and adding improvements and features--and there is never a charge for upgrading.

Ah, meant to add too, that Epson's paper profiles are quite good. If they aren't included on the printer CD she can download them from the Epson site--I believe this PIM installer and ICC profiles would be the file she needs (for the R800).
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/...=37472319&infoType=Downloads&platform=Windows

 

[Mary Bull]

Incredibly, the Epson R800 was nowhere in stock in Nashville or in any of the surrounding smaller communities. However, an on-line search turned up the name of the largest Epson dealer in the Southeast U.S., located right here in Nashville.

To the astonishment of my nephew and me, it turned out to be an old-line firm, Dury's. By further coincidence, to me, my nephew had gone to school with Steve Dury, whose father started the business. We quickly reached an agreement to order the R800 through him, and, as a bonus, their truck will drop the printer off at my door one day next week.

I'm still amazed that a camera store has expanded into being an Epson dealer. But I feel very lucky about it, also.

Depending on the free time he may have from the press of business (he's a free-lance consultant in CDMA cell-tower technology) my nephew may be able to do the physical work of unboxing the printer and setting it in its place for me next weekend. And, unless I miss my guess, my nephew, being a lover of new toys, will probably want to help me install the software and then play a bit with the new printer, too.

SOT, in re Qimage:

I have had an evaluation copy for some days now. Have been spending my free time reading the tutorial.

And, Dierk, thank you so very much for sending me by PM, the link to Mike Chaney's interview on The Digital Photography Show, available as a PodCast:

http://digiphoto.thepodcastnetwork.com/

Although the interview with Mike takes place in the second half of the show, I enjoyed very much the interchange in the first half between the show's two hosts, Michael Stein and Scott Sherman.

But the interview with Mike Chaney, of course, was the important part, and well worth waiting for--it comes after the break, as I found out. I learned more about Mike and Qimage through hearing him talk about it, and hearing his voice made me feel a bit more closely acquainted with him.

I can highly recommend this PodCast to anyone interested in Mike and Qimage. The audio was excellent on my machine, and I was able to do some catch-up household chores while listening to all the banter on the first half of this almost 90-minute program.

Mary

 

[Mary Bull]

Diane, I thank you so very much for all your helpful posts.

Stay tuned.

I may be up and running with the R800 next weekend.

Mary

 

[Nill Toulme]

I can't pass this thread up without adding my unqualified endorsement of Qimage. I used to print using a fairly convoluted multi-step (capture sharpening, resizing/resampling to print size at 360 dpi, output sharpening) process in PS. Qimage gives me noticeably better results with what seems like about 10% of the work. I now go straight from Capture One to Qimage for most prints, only opening PS sometimes for noise reduction or retouching.

Qimage allowed me to catch up with a two-year (yes you read that right) backlog of print orders, and the quality of the results is superb.

Highest recommendation.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

 

[Ray West]

From the link to the podcast page -

Mike turned out to be an interesting guy who has that knack for explaining technical things in language that even a semi-simpleton like me can understand.

Which is one reason for looking at another one of Mike's software solutions - profile prism. Of course, its not on the Mac, which probably explains why many folk insist on pre-made profiles, or getting others to make profiles for you.

Best wishes,

Ray

 

[Alain Briot]

Hi Mary,

I actually recommend one of the new Epson Ultra High resolution printers --R260 or R380-- which in my estimate are the successors to the wonderful R800 / R1800 and the precursors of a new ink/printhead technology from Epson. I plan to get one myself. Epson usually introduces new technology in their desktop-size printers:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/Landing/UltraHiDefinition.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes

I think the R260 is just fine unless you want to print straight from the flash card or USB drive, but then you forfeit the capabilities of raw conversion & optimization in CS2.

 

[Diane Fields]

Hi Mary,

I actually recommend one of the new Epson Ultra High resolution printers --R260 or R380-- which in my estimate are the successors to the wonderful R800 / R1800 and the precursors of a new ink/printhead technology from Epson. I plan to get one myself. Epson usually introduces new technology in their desktop-size printers:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/Landing/UltraHiDefinition.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes

I think the R260 is just fine unless you want to print straight from the flash card or USB drive, but then you forfeit the capabilities of raw conversion & optimization in CS2.

I'm considering an R260 for my husband to replace his aging Epson 875. The specs look good on them-and the fading--or lack of it--is good according to Epson. The R800 uses ultrachrome inks (pigmented) which is what my 2200 uses plus has the ability to handle glossy much better than the other pigment printers I believe (or did at the time it came out). However, if the fading is not a problem in real life time with the Claria inks then they are probably a good choice--and glossy works well with dye inks anyhow.

Still--Mary will not go wrong with the R800. Its liked by almost everyone that prints with one if you scan the printer forums elsewhere.

Diane

 

[Mary Bull]

Alain, thank you very much for your recommendation.

There's nothing to say, provided I can clear enough surface for its footprint, that I can't have three printers. < she said with a grin >

The R800 is on order from a local dealer as of Saturday morning, Might even be here by Tuesday--the store owner said that orders arrive to him overnight from the warehouse. And he will make a truck drop-off of the printer at my door.

So, let me learn the ins-and-outs of that Epson, and then perhaps I can branch out.

What did you print Playa Reflections on?

Mary

Mary

 

[Mary Bull]

Diane, let me know how you-all like the R260, if you do get it.

I am pretty sure that I've made the right decision for me, for now, to order the R800.

By next weekend I should be able to report here how I'm getting along with it.

Mary

 

[Mary Bull]

On my to-do list, Ray.

Let me get this Epson R800 printer in hand and running. I understand it has pretty good proprietary profiles with it.

Mary

 

[Alain Briot]

Alain, thank you very much for your recommendation.
What did you print Playa Reflections on?
Mary

Hi Mary,

Playa Reflections is printed on Crane Museo Silver Rag. It is my favorite paper for color matted prints (not in portfolios). For B&W matted prints I prefer Epson Velvet Fine Art. My October Print of the Month is printed on Velvet Fine Art for example because it is B&W.

 

[Alain Briot]

The R260 is a brand new printer and technology so it is difficult to compare it to the R800 until I test it and see what the actual improvements are. The R800 is a proven reliable printer and a sure bet. I just like to get the latest printers -provided they offer a new technology. At $130 shipped (from Amazon with free shpg) you can't really go wrong. One sure improvement is the availabilty of larger cartridges, with about 50% more ink than the regular size. The R800 has the regular size. The R260 etc. has the regular or the 50% larger carts. It's only $4 more for the larger carts, resulting in a significant saving and less frequent cart changes.

 

[Diane Fields]

Diane, let me know how you-all like the R260, if you do get it.

I am pretty sure that I've made the right decision for me, for now, to order the R800.

By next weekend I should be able to report here how I'm getting along with it.

Mary

I think so too--the R800 is a known quantity. I'm waiting to see some real life reviews on the Claria inks. I have another option also--I'm going to replace my 2200 with a new printer, most likely the Epson R3800 so may give my 2200 to my husband, but then its large for his space so a letter sized printer, as he has now in the 875 is probably a better choice. My 2200 will probably be used for experiments in printing fabric.

You now know about the paper profiles, Qimage, etc.---so you will be set for some fun when your new printer arrives.

Once you get your feet wet printing with the R800, moving to any other Epson printer will be a breeze if you choose. However, I suspect you will find the R800 to do all you need---it will print on a wide variety of media--so you might try some sample packs from various sources (when you are ready, Ill be glad to give some good links). For about the least expensive prices on Epson media and inks, try www.atlex.com. I've used them for years with excellent service as have many others.

Diane

 

[Mary Bull]

Diane, I've bookmarked the link to Atlex.com.

I really appreciate your telling me about it.

And, thank you so very much for all the support and encouragement. I'll report back to this thread when the Epson R800 is up and running.

Mary

 

[Nill Toulme]

Mary I enthusiastically second Diane's recommendation of www.atlex.com for Epson printing supplies. And I've recently found another supplier, Midwest Photo Exchange, that's even cheaper, especially with free shipping, although their website is not nearly as user-friendly. I've only bought from them once, but the order came very promptly and in good order.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

 

[Mary Bull]

Nill,

Thanks a million, both for the endorsement of Diane's recommendation and for the second source to order from. I've bookmarked the Midwest Photo Exchange site, as well as that of Atlex.

Mary

 

[Diane Fields]

Mary I enthusiastically second Diane's recommendation of www.atlex.com for Epson printing supplies. And I've recently found another supplier, Midwest Photo Exchange, that's even cheaper, especially with free shipping, although their website is not nearly as user-friendly. I've only bought from them once, but the order came very promptly and in good order.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Thanks Nill--their site isn't as user friendly---looking for 2200 carts, but the prices are good and right now Epson orders over $50 are free. My Epson orders are always well over $50 so that made me smile.

Diane

 

[Asher Kelman]

What about the 9800 or the HP Z's?

Asher

 

[Paul Schefz]

i buy all my supplies at www.inkjetart.com great prices, free shipping (over 99$), they are also very knowledgeable about all things regarding printing/color....
they also sell their "housebrand" paper, which they say comes off the same mill as epson's, but it is alot cheaper....i use it for basic printing or larger runs, i have yet to see a difference to the epson brand...
they also make amazing custom profiles for 25$ per profile...download the target, follow the instructions, send it in, get the profile as an email 3days later...works perfectly, better then canned profiles....they told me about this service when i was thinking of buying a printprofile package (1500+$) since tehn i have had 4 profiles made (the Hahnemuhle fine art pearl is the latest, haven't played with it yet!!) much better deal for me....i highly recommed inkjetart.com...i think they usually beat all the other prices....
no, i am not in any way connected, but feel free to mention my name when calling them up....