• Please use real names.

    Greetings to all who have registered to OPF and those guests taking a look around. Please use real names. Registrations with fictitious names will not be processed. REAL NAMES ONLY will be processed

    Firstname Lastname

    Register

    We are a courteous and supportive community. No need to hide behind an alia. If you have a genuine need for privacy/secrecy then let me know!
  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Project-based photography: choosing a subject

Chris Kresser

New member
I just read David Hurn & Bill Jay's On Being a Photographer. I enjoyed a lot of it, but I found the section on project-based photography particularly helpful, since that is mostly what I'm interested in these days.

David suggests the following inquiries when choosing a subject for a new project:

1. Is it visual? (There are many ideas which would be better suited to the written word or another non-visual medium, for example)

2. Is it practical? Accessible? (I'm out of luck if I want to do a series on Antarctic wildlife)

3. Is it a subject I know enough about? (Hurn cautions against the superficiality that results when the photographer is not educated about the subject; for example, walking around snatching pictures of homeless people in doorways does little to improve their plight. It's more like exploitation for the photographer's own ends.)

4. Is it interesting to others? (This is tricky, of course. Choosing a subject we aren't passionate about but think will interest others is a recipe for burnout and inauthentic work. But all things being equal, if we have two subjects we care about and one of them might be of more interest to the people we intend to show the project to, it probably makes sense to choose that one.)

I'm finding these questions helpful in evaluating my own ideas. For example, I've been working on a project called "Choice" which explores the effects of increasing consumer choice in today's world. It is visual, it is a subject I've researched and know a fair amount about, and I've received feedback that indicates it is of interest to at least some people.

However, I'm quite stuck on #2 - access. Not surprisingly, store managers don't take kindly to folks (like me) coming into their stores and taking pictures of the shelves!

Rather than completely abandon the project, I'm considering ways I could solve the access problem. One possibility, of course, would be trying to find a store manager who will give me permission to make some pictures during a slow time at the store. Another is to think of another way to visually convey what I'm trying to communicate in this series.

In any case, I've found that the criteria above have really helped me to focus my thinking about a project. I'd be curious to hear any of your thoughts or reflections on your experience with choosing subjects for project-based photography.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I just read David Hurn & Bill Jay's On Being a Photographer. I enjoyed a lot of it, but I found the section on project-based photography particularly helpful, since that is mostly what I'm interested in these days.

David suggests the following inquiries when choosing a subject for a new project:

1. Is it visual? (There are many ideas which would be better suited to the written word or another non-visual medium, for example)

2. Is it practical? Accessible? (I'm out of luck if I want to do a series on Antarctic wildlife)

3. Is it a subject I know enough about? (Hurn cautions against the superficiality that results when the photographer is not educated about the subject; for example, walking around snatching pictures of homeless people in doorways does little to improve their plight. It's more like exploitation for the photographer's own ends.)

4. Is it interesting to others? (This is tricky, of course. Choosing a subject we aren't passionate about but think will interest others is a recipe for burnout and inauthentic work. But all things being equal, if we have two subjects we care about and one of them might be of more interest to the people we intend to show the project to, it probably makes sense to choose that one.)

I'm finding these questions helpful in evaluating my own ideas. For example, I've been working on a project called "Choice" which explores the effects of increasing consumer choice in today's world. It is visual, it is a subject I've researched and know a fair amount about, and I've received feedback that indicates it is of interest to at least some people.

However, I'm quite stuck on #2 - access. Not surprisingly, store managers don't take kindly to folks (like me) coming into their stores and taking pictures of the shelves!

Rather than completely abandon the project, I'm considering ways I could solve the access problem. One possibility, of course, would be trying to find a store manager who will give me permission to make some pictures during a slow time at the store. Another is to think of another way to visually convey what I'm trying to communicate in this series.

In any case, I've found that the criteria above have really helped me to focus my thinking about a project. I'd be curious to hear any of your thoughts or reflections on your experience with choosing subjects for project-based photography.

Hi Chris,

If i'd want to take pictures in a store I just do it. if they would want to call security then then can do that too. However you will not get your pictures you want unless you find some other stratagem such as getting permission. That would work if you were a school kind doing a class project or maybe if the store manager likes you, but don't bet on it. A lot of people do get pictures they want that way. I would do both under different circumstances. You can always photograph from the street with a glass window if you are not holding the lens up to the glass to be invasive. In all these cases you are at risk of getting into trouble and then paying a fine if one is applicable. It's not, AFAIK a felony. All they can do is ask you to desist.

The other thing to so is simply to build a set yourself and that is just labor and is easily accomplished. For me, however, there has to be compelling reasons, like particular lighting, need for a tripod, using a spot meter and so forth that would make your work disruptive to other people!

I'd just try it!

Asher
 

Chris Kresser

New member
Hi Asher,

The images I do have already were obtained in exactly the manner you suggest. I used a small camera (Ricoh GX100) and tried to be unobtrusive. I found, however, that 1) I didn't enjoy the experience of sneaking around, 2) I had to work much more quickly than I wanted to, and it showed in the results, 3) this series actually calls for a camera with higher resolution, like my 5D, 4) In order to get maximum detail in the subjects, which is part of the visual communication I'd like to make, I would need to shoot at low ISO - which of course means a tripod.

None of that seems possible without permission, so for now, I'm at an impasse. I may try sneaking a few more shots, or I may switch gears. Not sure.

In any event, I'm still interested in hearing from folks on their general strategy for project-based photography.
 

Dierk Haasis

pro member
Let's start with your specific question on access: Just ask. The worst thing that can happen is that you get denied permission - not worse of than before asking. Sure, you should have a few ideas at hand, especially about what you want to do with the results. Maybe the shop owner [ah, yes, I'd go with small shops, not chains] can make use of one or to of your photos. Don't forget, people always want to see some benefit for themselves. If you can offer something ...

If you do not ask, not only can the shop's security people be rather unpleasant, you can be sued for invasion of privacy. Shops are not public places but provate ground. One very good reason for them to forbid photography in the vicinity is customer protection. Think of apparel, would you like a photographer stalking around when trying on?

As for the other questions, they are rather superficial. Isn't it much more interesting to find a visual expression for matters not jumping at you as visuals? Practicality and knowledge should be worked out by the photographer before and during his project. If we only bother with project we already know about, why should we do it. And while it is clear that we shouldn't pose ourselves projects we cannot fulfill, most of the time we should work out a way. Clearly, outer space photography is limited to a very small group of people but most everything can be done with hard work and changing your priorities.

The specific example given, about homeless people, shows the slippery slope and general unhelpfulness of the advice given. Why is taking photos of everyday life of homeless people unaware [hence not staging themselves] more exploitation than getting to know them personally and doing the same? It can be argued, successfully, that even paying them for their modelling is an exploitation since eventually you will make more money than you pay them - marketing misery to well-off folks.*

Part of a project is to get to know the subject, to find the right expression, to find a way to do it.

Leaves the fourth category, interst to others. Hm, isn't that why so many TV shows look like other TV shows? If CSI works well, let's do the same in another city, and another, and another ... If you want to be successful you need to stick to you, don't pander to others. Does not assure your success, at least not short term, but it|s better than following trends your whole life, never catching up.





*In case you just do it as a hobby your gratification usually stems from applause by viewers not their money. Still you are selling misery of real people.
 

Tim Ashley

Moderator
Hi Chris,

I feel your pain but I have to say that this sort of issue is what sorts the men from the boys, no insult intended. It's the people who find a way of blagging access to the shots they want that get the prize. I saw some amazing shots taken in North Korea last year, and there's not a shot there that would have passed me by had I been there - but I wasn't the guy who persuaded the embassy to let him go and give him such freedom of access when he got there.

SO I would assume that if you were to find a way of blagging access to your shots, you'd get them to a higher degree of technical perfection with the greatest compositional freedom, and that would make your shots unique not just because you had the idea but because you then were able to make it happen where others weren't. In other words, the skills required for the project are more than photographic - they are also diplomatic! So: try another store; write to the manager or the group marketing director stressing your artistic credentials and that of the project and de-emphasising the ways in which it less than flatters the subject matter; take along some examples of what you've done already; whatever. Just don't take no for anything other than a temporary glitch!

And I'm with Dierk on the issue of whether it's interesting to others. Done well (and good ol' Bernd and Hill Becher proved this as we've discussed before) anything can be interesting if it has 'seriaility' or in your case and please pardon the recycled pun, cereality...

;-)

t
 

Sean Reid

Moderator
Hi Chris,

I'd find one particular store that you want to work with and negotiate. It may be easier if the place is not part of a large corporate chain. If it's corporate owned, you'll need to go pretty far up the ladder to get permission. But its possible. It took me four months to get formal permission to photograph in a mall in Mass. (USA).

Think about two things: 1) What are the store's concerns and how can you alleviate those? 2) What might you be able to contribute to the store?

Let's take number 2 first. Might the store want some pictures for local newspaper ads, a web site, etc? If yes, might they want to swap access (during cleaning hours or the like) in exchange for you shooting some free pictures for them? Find out if there's something you can do for them as a photographer and work from there.

We're living in a society where TV thrives on cheesy expose stories about anything that will grab viewer share. Stores are understandably concerned that your pictures could be used to make them look bad in some way. You need to convince them that this is not the case.

The design and layout of stores is, often, carefully orchestrated. Though it is in public view, stores are sometimes concerned about pictures being used by competitors for their own designs. This is a big concern, believe it or not, with many major chains and it came up in my mall negotiations.

So its worth figuring out what their primary concerns are and what you might be able to offer them so that letting you work is worth their trouble.

Also, consider showing them some of Andy Warhol's pictures to give a sense of a related way that this topic has been treated before.

Cheers,

Sean
 

Sean Reid

Moderator
4. Is it interesting to others? (This is tricky, of course. Choosing a subject we aren't passionate about but think will interest others is a recipe for burnout and inauthentic work. But all things being equal, if we have two subjects we care about and one of them might be of more interest to the people we intend to show the project to, it probably makes sense to choose that one.)

My own opinion here is that the real question is whether or not the pictures will be of interest. Whether or not the nominal subject would be interesting to most people is often beside the point.

Cheers,

Sean
 

Chris Kresser

New member
Thanks to everyone for your insightful responses.

Dierk, I never argued that getting to know homeless people and taking pictures of them isn't exploitation. I think Hurn's point, which I understand you disagree with, is that a superficial knowledge of a subject often (perhaps not always) leads to superficial pictures. One of the methods of research he recommends is visual, i.e. with the camera. So I think he would agree with you that this learning can take place in the context of the project as it progresses.

Tim: I get what you're saying, and I don't doubt you're right about the "skills required for the project being more than photographic." I'm seeing that in a big way with this one.

Sean: thanks for the tips on gaining access. One thing I have going for me (I think - maybe I'm wrong) is that it's impossible to know what store I'm photographing in just by looking at the pictures. If I were taking pictures of the outside of the store with the logo, and then the series was portraying the stores in an unkind light, that would probably be more of a challenge.

On the other hand, the challenge for me is that the chain stores are the ones I'm most interested in photographing, since they are the quintessential manifestation of some of the themes I'd like to explore.

I did assemble a folder of finished prints, and a letter stating my intention. I think you're all right - I just need to go ask. Perhaps I can offer some kind of trade in the form of pictures of the store or portraits, as Tim & Sean have suggested.

Regarding #4: I probably misstated Hurn's objective with that. I think his meaning is much closer to Sean's than the example I gave. Surely the most important variable is whether the pictures, not the subject, are interesting. Because ultimately it's the pictures that people are looking at, not the actual subject.

Finally, I do have a technical question I'm hoping you all can help me with. As you can see from the series, what I'm doing here is taking fairly wide angle pictures from a relatively short distance away from a subject with both horizontal and vertical lines. Obviously distortion is an issue. I'm trying to figure out a way to minimize it as much as possible.

I've been using the GX100 at 24mm for these pics, and the distortion is quite significant. I've been correcting it with a program similar to PTLens for the Mac (LensFix by Kekus Digital). If I switch over to my 5D with a 24/2.8 prime, I think the distortion would be less. Of course using a lens that isn't quite so wide would help, too, but of course I couldn't fit as much in the frame and that won't work for this project. I considered the possibility of making panoramas with a 35mm lens, but I have little experience with this technique.
 

Sean Reid

Moderator
For less distortion, try the GR or GR2. 28 mm should be wide enough, yes?

BTW, spoke with Ben and he will contact you.

Cheers,

S
 

Chris Kresser

New member
Thanks Sean. I'd like to avoid buying a new camera if I can avoid it, so I may just go with the 24/2.8 on my 5D. It's time for me to ask permission so I can go in there with a tripod and do it right, and if I do that there's really no reason for me to use the GX100 instead of the 5D.

Good news about Ben!!
 
Chris, some of your pictures have (to me at least) considerable visual energy, quite apart from the musings about Choice that you are after. If you show those, and you are lucky, you might get permission from a store manager to go after the unappreciated Art that his store contains. In return for some prints for his display, perhaps.

scott
 
On the other hand, there is a shot I took some years ago in a Jerusalem supermarket that made use of the shelves covered with paper to hide the "chametz" -- leavened items not to be sold during Passover. I'd like to explore that one further, but I think I'll have to sneak it.

scott
 

Chris Kresser

New member
Scott,

Thanks for your reply and your feedback on the series. The last two weeks I've been finishing up another project (my first experiment with printing a photo book on demand), but soon I intend to pick this one back up. I'm definitely inspired to get permission at a store - I'm done stealing pictures for this one and want to have the time and space to use the equipment that will best express my vision for the series.

I'll let you all know what happens!

Chris
 
Top