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Ricoh GRD II vs Canon G9 vs ???

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Hi folks,

I know you'll hate me for asking this question, since it has been asked many times before me. As some of you might know, I'll be going on a road trip in Western USA in July. Besides my trusty 5D, I am now contemplating taking a compact RAW shooting digicam along.

Possibly, I'll go for a GRD II. I saw one in the shop the other day, looked very compact compared to G9. But some of the downsides I came across are the 0.5 EV steps in exposure bracketing, the slow shooting speeds and the fixed lens.

Any thoughts you might care sharing will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Cem
 

John_Nevill

New member
Why?..........

Ray, probably for the same reason I did!

dSLRs are becoming obtrusive in public places, the GRD II on the other hand is about the size of a 1DmkIII battery. Its quality is obviously short of the 5D, but you can slip into your shirt pocket and carry it everywhere.

Cem, the G9 is going to give your more flexibility lens wise (35- 200mm equiv.) and its output quality is a tad shy of the GRD II. However the G9 needs a bigger pocket to fit in.

Obviously, I'm biased having a GRD II and its 28mm lens is restrictive, but you can intuitively think outside the box with it and use your legs.

Forgot to mention, it's not that slow to use.
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Ray, probably for the same reason I did!

dSLRs are becoming obtrusive in public places, the GRD II on the other hand is about the size of a 1DmkIII battery. ...
Exactly! Also, there will be days when I just want to relax and enjoy my holidays without having to lug around a heavy camera bag.

Cheers,

Cem
 

John_Nevill

New member
Also, there will be days when I just want to relax and enjoy my holidays without having to lug around a heavy camera bag.

Cheers,

Cem

Cem, for the last x years I've lugged dSLRs on weekend breaks and my wife has always felt that the main purpose of our holidays was photography. Ironically, taking a compact away to New York, she felt it was less photo orientated. Strange, as I took as many pictures. Perhaps size does matter!
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Cem, for the last x years I've lugged dSLRs on weekend breaks and my wife has always felt that the main purpose of our holidays was photography. Ironically, taking a compact away to New York, she felt it was less photo orientated. Strange, as I took as many pictures. Perhaps size does mattes!
I am confused, isn't it the main purpose of holidays then? LOLOLOL

I am totally onboard with you on this one. Saving one's marriage wise, this camera will definitely come in handy. I am also planning to give it to my daughter as her main camera. She now has a Canon A85 digicam, which is starting to show it's age. But for her the fixed lens might be an issue though. And for me, the real issue would be the exposure bracketing and the shooting speed since I am heavily into HDR and panoramas at the moment.

Cheers,

Cem
 

Ray West

New member
But, unless you have both with you at all times, you will always wish you had the other one. If the small camera is good enough, then why take the large? How can you relax, if you have to make a decision like that, and worry in case you make the wrong one, and then when you are home, wish you'd had the longer lens, or what have you.

I think you will need to go twice - once with the pocket cam, then again, where required, with the main camera.

Cem, you are looking to us for support, to give a reason for your excuse to buy a bit of new gear. If it's any good, give it to your daughter, but only when you buy another ;-)

Best wishes,

Ray (I know what you're up to)
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
But, unless you have both with you at all times, you will always wish you had the other one. If the small camera is good enough, then why take the large? How can you relax, if you have to make a decision like that, and worry in case you make the wrong one, and then when you are home, wish you'd had the longer lens, or what have you.

I think you will need to go twice - once with the pocket cam, then again, where required, with the main camera.

Cem, you are looking to us for support, to give a reason for your excuse to buy a bit of new gear. If it's any good, give it to your daughter, but only when you buy another ;-)

Best wishes,

Ray (I know what you're up to)
Yep, you know me too well apparently ;-).
Guilty as charged.

Cheers,

Cem
 

Ray West

New member
I think I raised a similar question a year or two ago, on here. I took everything for the slr, and my Canon s70. (I chose the s70 because it had cf cards, (and raw) and very similar controls to the 20D). It was just about pocket size (iirc I wrote something about 'velcro' at the time). I used it where I thought the slr would be pretentious.

wrt the 20D, I have a smallish camera bag about 20cm cube, for the camera & grip, with my beloved 24-70 attached. Also has a wide angle lens, which I hardly ever use. and two tele-converters, spare batteries, cf cards, etc. I never used the 70-200, or other gear, which stayed in my 'supply depot' rucksack.

I think If I had had a G9, then I would not have used the 20d at all. From what I understand, the G9 gives quite acceptable photos. The s70 is not that wide ranging wrt iso, etc. I think the smaller sensor sized cameras will mess up your depth of field considerations. You may notice that more with the 5d as your main camera.


Best wishes,

Ray
 

Diane Fields

New member
I noticed on LL that Michael Reichman chose a Ricoh gx100 because of the zoom. He also has a G9. You might read that review also--though I understand its an older Ricoh. I have a G9, like it, but admit I have not used it too much. My major complaint is still a viable VF--I do have the Voightlander 35mm external VF which is a wonderful VF, but, of course, doesn't work with zoom and other restrictions. Still, it and the internal are better than nothing. I really dislike using an LCD. I plan on making myself use the camera more--under the right circumstances (reasonable light, good exposure), the images are very good. I am trying to remember to carry it when I carry my converted IR body rather than carry 2 DSLR bodies.

At some point when a smaller (and it doesn't have to be pocket size for me), fixed lens camera with a decent VF becomes available at a reasonable price, I suspect I will be interested in it. In the meantime, I do have a problem carrying the G9 instead of the 5D/lenses LOL. I imagine if my lifestyle was different (going to work in a city instead of home office) I would use the G9 more. I've had only one instance of travel since I've had the G9 and I had both the G9 and 5D with me--so guess which got used more.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/ricoh-gx100.shtml

Diane
 

Jack Leavitt

New member
My wife thinks I devote too much time of our shared experiences to photography. I have been abel to ameliorate this problem by using my G9 instead of my 5D. I guess in this case smaller is better.
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
So, I took a decision...

... and bought a Canon G9 a week ago. My first impressions are mostly positive but not all is well.
I am planning to write an extended user review on this camera, so you'll hear from me soon.

Cheers,

Cem
 

Jörgen Nyberg

New member
Cem, im looking forward to your review.

I'm also going out west this summer, and thinking of which compact I should get. Leaning towards the G9 (only wish it was wider).
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Don't forget that for some subjects you can always stitch together multiple images to achieve that wider angle. A little skill in taking such images (even handheld), and proper stitching/blending software goes a long way.

Bart
Hi Bart,

You are absolutely right, I take a lot of stitch and/or HDR pictures handheld with my 5D. So I started doing the same with the G9. To my dismay (but it is early days now), it delivers very bad stitching results unless one is shooting panoramas at infinity. For objects closer than 10m, I get horrible parallax errors even for HDR pictures with exposure bracketing whereby the camera hardly moves between the frames. I am using the auto-align stack of the Hugin project and it fails miserably in aligining the resulting images. Tim Armes' plug-in for Lightroom ditto. PS CS3 does a better job at that, but still not ideal. This issue will be continued....

So for going wide purposes, one should actually buy the Canon x0.75 or Raynox x0.66 or x0.7 converters.

Cheers,

Cem
 
So I started doing the same with the G9. To my dismay (but it is early days now), it delivers very bad stitching results unless one is shooting panoramas at infinity.

It's not the camera, it's the photographer ...
wink.gif


For objects closer than 10m, I get horrible parallax errors even for HDR pictures with exposure bracketing whereby the camera hardly moves between the frames.

Yes, that's the telltale sign of not having rotated around the entry pupil of the lens (at the given focal length). With a zoom lens it's not easy, because each focal length may have a different optimal point of rotation (entry pupil). What you definitively do not want to do, is rotating around your neck or body. You rather have to "step around" the imaginary entry pupil while keeping the camera level as you rotate the horizontal view. Until you determine the entry pupil's position, you can assume it to be roughly 2x the focal length in front of the sensor plane (I think all G models have that plane position indicated on the camera).

Handheld pano's will rarely be perfect in the foreground, but choosing a pano-stitcher that can use e.g. the "Smartblend" blending algorithm, combined with a liberal amount of overlap between the image tiles (say 50% for difficult/busy foregrounds), will help in avoiding the most glaring issues from becoming a distraction. It also helps to remove some people/traffic movement, or even eliminate them when you plan a few additional shots. Besides, with the file dimensions of the G9, you'll probably be downsampling the stitched result, which also reduces the residual size of the human errors.

So for going wide purposes, one should actually buy the Canon x0.75 or Raynox x0.66 or x0.7 converters.

While that's an option, it defies the purpose of a lightweight camera, IMHO. Of course, if you have a lot of wideangle shots planned, it will reduce postprocessing time.

Bart
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
It's not the camera, it's the photographer ...
wink.gif




Yes, that's the telltale sign of not having rotated around the entry pupil of the lens (at the given focal length). With a zoom lens it's not easy, because each focal length may have a different optimal point of rotation (entry pupil). What you definitively do not want to do, is rotating around your neck or body. You rather have to "step around" the imaginary entry pupil while keeping the camera level as you rotate the horizontal view. Until you determine the entry pupil's position, you can assume it to be roughly 2x the focal length in front of the sensor plane (I think all G models have that plane position indicated on the camera).
........
While that's an option, it defies the purpose of a lightweight camera, IMHO. Of course, if you have a lot of wideangle shots planned, it will reduce postprocessing time.

Bart
Hi Bart,

Luckily I know you, otherwise I could have taken some offense here ;-).

You see, it is 80% the camera which is the problem. First of all, there is no sensor plane indicator. And even if there was one, how can you step around an imaginary pivot point when the thing in your hands is so small and the focal length is some 8mm? Impossible, I am telling you.

Secondly, I have taken some exposure bracketed pictures while holding the camera securely so that I could do HDR. Even a 2 mm displacement/tilt/shake of the camera between frames (inevitable while handholding) cause parallax errors. I have never had these problems with a large and heavy camera in my hands, one can control it much better than this tiny contraption.

So yes, while a wide angle would add weight, it would also add stability. I have ordered a couple of lensmate hoods (lens adapters) and a custom grip in the hope that I can improve the stability of the camera.

As you can imagine, my biggest issue at the moment is being able to take stable pictures which are neither shaken nor stirred (LOL).

Groetjes,

Cem
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Cem,

Sometimes, what first appears as parallax errors with the digicam zooms might turn out to be the minor distortions at the wide end. I tend to go around now with one 50mm lens and overlap. I attempt to keep my camera orthogonal to the horizon. Near object I'll Zoom in on with separate shots to replace any near objects in my pano with parallax problems.

So I'd also try using a less wide angle choice for your panos! What do you think of that?

Asher
 
Hi Bart,

Luckily I know you, otherwise I could have taken some offense here ;-).

I know, that's why I also added the emoticon, just to make extra sure you understood my being naughty.

You see, it is 80% the camera which is the problem. First of all, there is no sensor plane indicator. And even if there was one, how can you step around an imaginary pivot point when the thing in your hands is so small and the focal length is some 8mm? Impossible, I am telling you.

I never said it would be easy, but rotating around one's neck is most certainly not going to work. Therefore any attempt to do better will pay off (as do a liberal amount of overlap and SmartBlend). Also, with stitching one can consider to shoot at a longer focal length than 8mm, it'll just take several additional tiles to cover the required angle (and you'll gain real resolution). It probably also has something to do with the small sensels. The smallest parallax error will already span several pixels, so it can pay off to shoot at a longer FL and downsample more.

So yes, while a wide angle would add weight, it would also add stability. I have ordered a couple of lensmate hoods (lens adapters) and a custom grip in the hope that I can improve the stability of the camera.

I also use a Lensmate adapter (great stuff) on my G3 to allow the use of filters (e.g. Polarizing) which have the same 58mm diameter as several of my DSLR lenses.

As you can imagine, my biggest issue at the moment is being able to take stable pictures which are neither shaken nor stirred (LOL).

As a last resort you could consider a "string-pod", just a piece of string attached to the camera (loop around the Lensmate) and you step on the other end with one foot and pull tight. You'll get some funny looks (especially with the Patriot Act and all) but it'll help to stabilize handholding somewhat.

Groetjes,

Bart
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Hi Bart, Asher,

These are great tips, thanks for helping me out here. Much appreciated :)

Cem
(who'll practise some more till he gets it right)
 
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