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Some thoughts on Nudes at beach

I attempted this once before with different pictures (same shoot) and it failed to post apparently, so I am trying again.
For Trivia: Model is Stathena who is currently in San Francisco area of California, although she travels occasionally these days. Lovely and wonderful art model.

Nothing special about this image other than it has the elements I am talking about in them. one is a full frame not cropped and one is cropped as I would crop them. Other than some generic corrections, no editing has been done to the photos.

This is an older set (one that I realized I had not gotten to yet), but it got me thinking about nudes at beaches and I was wondering what elements are important to convey not only the figure, but the environment of the beach.

There is the Horizon.
  • how important is it being there at all?
  • How important is it being level? (I happen to have compulsive tendency to want to make it level even if not necessarily the best angle for the image)

The Waves.
  • How important is it to catch the waves in the image (if present)?
  • Should the image be extended out a bit to have them show?

Reflections. While sometimes they are not there because the wave just came in or is cresting past the model, sometimes they can be plainly there.
  • How much should be captured of the reflection if you only have part?
  • Should the reflection be cropped similarly to the actual body (as in not across joints)?
  • Should we try for the reflection deliberately?

Other Elements. On this particular beach, ignoring that nudes are normally not permitted, you are not supposed to touch or disturb anything on the beach. Thus they can't be removed before hand.
  • So how much of the background elements should be left in?
  • Does having some of the natural debris add to the image? (I personally would edit out the seaweed clump that shows near her forehead and likely the other three major pieces in the upper right (along with the what is probably a white piece of man made trash), but otherwise I would be tempted to leave the rest).

Anyway some thoughts I have had and am wondering how others feel about these elements in a beach picture.
 

Attachments

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Tim,

First thanks so much for posting and adding this diversity! Did you just arrive at the beach early before complainers would be around!

I have not seen images embedded as “icons” before. It does look very “Architectural” and the layout is really
good, but I really prefer prefer full size.

So allow me to post them afresh. I would like us, if we may, to first take in, lavish attention and enjoy your pictures and only after that address the many “should” questions you propose!

Asher
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
First let me share with you a rule in my house.

I banned “Stop-it!” from being uttered by my family, especially grandchildren .... and my wife!

A lot of things I like to do: tickle the kids, trick them, play jokes and steal their candies and toys can be done without hindrance!

Here in OPF, similarly we would be happy to avoid like the plague almost any reference to the word “Should”, at least in in picture design.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
3458


Tim Dolan: “Nude on Beach 1”



3459


Tim Dolan: “Nude on Beach 2”

Now, Tim, we just have the pictures to enjoy.

I am happy to see this lovely redhead and the blue scarf!

I would value here group support and feedback!

What is fresh and any minimum tidy ups needed?

Asher
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Hi Tim.

I’ll talk like might talk to myself. It’s easier that way. I can never offend myself.

Firstly, let me reassure you. I would never take a picture of a nude anything human. That’s just me. People here know how I am about that.
But if I approach the problems you have set here as I might any scene, let alone a beach scene, I might be able to present an alternative approach.

Presenting the goal as a nude photo has elements of objectivity. It presents the case as being specifically guided by the title. Sort of like for identification purposes. Like taking a photo of a bird, dog or other specimen for scientific classification or just perving at. That’s what the second cropped shot looks like.
Now I know what a nude is.

Nude on a beach is just placing the object in question in a set location. This isn’t about context so much as just a place to photograph someone. That’s the first I cropped shot. Now I know where she is. Big deal. Splashing waves and debris on the beach won’t do much to give the image context.

Context is about taking the situation, all it’s elements and details, things and places and establishing some meaning to it all, something we can get our teeth into, not literally of course.

I remember Westons nudes at the beach where he used the forms of the body to replicate or add to the landscape. The nude and the location became one place, one single idea, a complete context.

I’m not saying you can’t do what you’ve done but the result is less edifying. It’s sterile! Bland. Dull.

So you might consider tizzing it up a but.
The average Aussie bloke would call her a ‘3 scooner’ sort of girl. My wife would ask if her bum is that big.
Just because she’s nude doesn’t necessarily give immediate licence for art.

Personally I think almost nude has a better appeal. Let her do something. Have a picnic with her. Get her to collect shells, have a wade in the water. Go fishing. I was going to say let her decide but she’s a pro model and they make everything about the pose which usually turns out like yours: clumsy and awkward.

I was just thinking of the shots of Marilyn Monroe from Playboy. Now there’s a woman who knew how to be partly nude and do something with it.

So while your model is prancing around looking like she want to be there and enjoying the day and not just being paid for the shoot, you’re in there with the Leica or whatever shooting what feels good for you. While that’s happening you’ll see the content of the viewfinder and you’ll know when it’s right. Shoot like every shot has some worth. Something will happen.

I also remember that when the Monroe shots were taken, Marilyn asked the photographer if her wanted to have sex with her. Now that’s commitment to the job. He declined, by the way. His biggest regret he later declared. Such is life.

So really, you needn’t ask us what should be done. You need to work on what you’d like the photo to show us. Is it just tits and bum or is it something more. At the moment it’s the former.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Well, Tom,

It might surprise your dear wife, but no one m, I know of, who works with nude models would likely even have the words “bum” or “tits” in their working vocabulary to each other and certainly not to the model.

I would expect and hope that all nude art photographers follow as strict guidelines for ethics and respect, as required of physicians who too are exposed to undressed women.

The concentration is on esthetics of shape and of necessity, shedding not only of clothes but also of over sexuality.

It’s more akin to draining an image of color and then concentrating on form and texture, soft glancing light rays or dimensionality from the play of light with form.

Of course one never escapes the reality that we are, as photographers, and often men, looking at the bodies of younger women who otherwise would be hidden.

In a way, it’s like visiting a museum, where on display, even the poorest person can enjoy views otherwise beyond their reach. But they don’t lust or insult the Art. There are no dismissive equivalents to “fat bum” or “sagging tits”!

Your very best and most apt direction was to to the work of Edward Weston, making his muse fit into the landscape as a valid complement to the scene, or pointing to the natural vivaciousness of Monroe who actually enjoyed the moments of life.

She did indeed have sex in public, but on the lap of her lover in the flashing darkness and rocking of Paris trains passing through tunnels! But any picture, was a treasure for the very lucky passing photographer!

But generally, nude photography is not about body parts rather it’s adding more to the accumulated and competitive endless expression of awe at the human, and especially female form.

The sexualized imagery belong in different categories suitable for men’s magazines and aids folk boosting their own mood or performance.

The best nude photography is more like the engineering sketches for a racing car as opposed to the grit on the face of the driver fighting for the finish!


Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
@Tim Dolan (Longwatcher)

Tom’s pointers to the craft of Weston and the joy of Monroe, provide, in my opinion, a superb complementary pair of guides.

As a photographer have your own concept and get a model who enjoys being herself and being part of the imagined scene to be created.

If you need leaves in the picture, collect them and sprinkle them to your taste. If the skyline is best for you at an angle, go ahead.

In my point of view shared by many appreciators of Art, you should be catering to your own wishes and whims to frame and build a picture that thrills you.

As you are human, then there could be a chance others might share your enthusiasm.

Essentially it’s this:

1. Include what builds the picture and try to exclude as much of everything else by optimizing you angle and shooting position or simple selecting adding or moving things.

2. Watch the light, as that is what makes everything dimensional and reveals or hides elements.

3. Explore views are different than what could be gathered by simply glancing here or there. Move around so relationships change and discover new possible relationships for the forms that interest you!

Asher
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Hi Ash and Tim.

You’ll need to excuse Ash. He thinks everyone is as couth and cultured as he.
We’re a bit more egalitarian down under. Everyone from the prime minister (occasionally a woman) to school children use ‘tit’ and ‘bum’ to describe parts of the anatomy, along with a few other terms you might not be familiar with.
I don’t apologise for that. Language can be a barrier or an identifier. You choose.

All I’m saying here is you might as well have photographed a duck on the beach. Being a nude woman does nothing for the beach.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Of course Tom,

I know nothing about Aussie vernacular beyond a few scattered words from the TV like mate and the “barbie”!

Here however I have asked models and they feel objectified by the “tits” and “arse” nomenclature as if they are parts of livestock or, (by hearsay), the line up of choice women at a brothel.

In the world of figure art, it’s only the woman and her shape that’s most important, not her personality nor role in society not any fitness as a mate.

If she exudes personality and meaning, then perhaps the picture is no longer in this realm of fineart!

So the only time one would call out “a large rear” would be if it the artist isn’t directed by that particular “robust” and more generous body type to be creative.

Here, personhood is not part of the picture and is never trampled on or insulted in any way.

Again, in my rarified world of figure artists, just uttering one word “tit” with a grin would, for me, mean I was going to kick someone off set!

Again, back to your two examples: Edwards Weston obsesses about positioning his nudes on the hillside for example in the light he had though about and examined for two weeks!

These weren’t accidental great shots out of 3 rolls of film

I am open to whatever Tim or any other photographer has in his or her head. I don’t make any rules except I have a right to be moved or not!

Asher
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Model is Stathena....

“..generic corrections, no editing has been done to the photos.


.....thinking about nudes at beaches and I was wondering what elements are important to convey not only the figure, but the environment of the beach.


the Horizon?

If you show it make it horizontal unless an angle is part of your design and if so be bold show it’s your intent and no accident!

The Waves?

If you don’t want waves or beach or skyline, why choose that spot? All the questions you ask are about what you wish on your plate for your artistic feast!

Like the angle of the horizon, if you include waves make them a useful easential
Part of your composition or you could take the shot in a quarry or builders yard!

You are not “there” by accident. So what was it of the location that you felt might go with the model and what was it about the beach that perhaps needed the model for you? What opportunities for building some unique for have you imagined?

In general, for art form of a nude figure study, you might not really need any color at all. But then again this is just your vision. If you are thrilled, we will catch up with you.
Reflections? These just come with water. If there are clouds, they will be in the sky and reflected in the water. The model will bevin the wet sand looking back up at her and the waves might catch her red hair and her eyes might show the waves.

You, for the time of the shoot have to be either a “peeping Tom” observing what happens when a nude girl poses on the beach, or else you have to be “Master of The Universe”, responsible for every position, pose, gesture, reflection, highlight and shadow, wisps of flying hair, breasts hanging over the side of her body or toes lost in the sand.

There are no other “oughts” or “shoulds” here, just the choice you have for watching the model a simply deciding when and from what angle you will shoot or else working with her so that some creative composition happens at the expression of your will power and pressing ideas that come from inside your head.

Other Elements

You decide alone what your rules will be for this picture. If you feel you MUST not misrepresent the “truth” of what was there, then don’t change anything just adapt your position or location so that’s not even necessary.

I personally will scatter leaves or sand or pick up trash: whatever I feel I need for my pictures.

The only rules I would have for myself are:

1. Don’t humiliate or frighten anyone or their pets and don’t leave a mess.

2. Respect the model as if she was precious but not your girlfriend or treat. Find our her comfort zone for exposure and get a signed release.

3. Consider having a chaperone as routine.

5. Give your model a private place to change and her own bathroom.

6. If you promise pictures deliver them!

7. Select the best of your shoot, photocopy the best prints and make notes on what you like and what worries you.
 
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Asher,
If I am paying a model, I always get a release.
And because some of my work falls under the rules of Title 18, chap 2257, I always get IDs for the records, even if that particular photo shoot doesn't need them. I don't expect to ever be checked, but just in case, CMA.

In this particular case, The model's husband was acting as escort and lookout.
While at the beach or other outdoor locations privacy may be limited, At the studio I have a room for the models to change in.

And you are giving me some things to think out, which I appreciate, even if not necessarily as many thoughts on those elements as I was hoping.

As for sex, never when someone is getting paid for the shoot.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Asher,
If I am paying a model, I always get a release.
And because some of my work falls under the rules of Title 18, chap 2257, I always get IDs for the records, even if that particular photo shoot doesn't need them. I don't expect to ever be checked, but just in case, CMA.

I had not heard of this statute but it’s important for photographers or creative digital artist who might depict acts of lovemaking and not realize that there are laws requiring strict record keeping of age name and previous names of all actors!


In this particular case, The model's husband was acting as escort and lookout.
Generally it’s advisable to not allow that but to have your own, independent chaperone!


And you are giving me some things to think out, which I appreciate, even if not necessarily as many thoughts on those elements as I was hoping.

I have tried to avoid the “shoulds” of photography rule-givers, as first I am a rule breaker and second I wouldn’t want you to be restricted.

I feel that it's your job to be committed to what’s being created internally in the “Cathedral of the mind” and work with that self-directed vision to export that essence in physical form, to this real world as your art, with your personal stamp on it!

I fear that “my rules” are possibly damaging to your art!

However, I will now try like a good surgeon, to show possible corrections, while not causing any obvious damage.

As for sex, never when someone is getting paid for the shoot.
Ahah, perhaps that’s why some models try to refuse to take their earnings: got it. I was too slow!

Asher
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
All that for a photograph.
I’m impressed.
It does seem though that someone out there is making sure Tim covers himself well. (Both literally and figuratively).
And all I need is a bus ticket to my destination and permission from Christine to get out of the house for a while.

What happens if such an event draws a crowd?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
All that for a photograph.
I’m impressed.
It does seem though that someone out there is making sure Tim covers himself well. (Both literally and figuratively).
Photography requires none of this if one sensibly avoids photographing:

  • military installations,
  • adjacent apartment windows,
  • kids without permission
  • and especially Folk seeming to be available for or actually mating!

And all I need is a bus ticket to my destination and permission from Christine to get out of the house for a while.

What happens if such an event draws a crowd?
You give out your card and tell them you will photograph them too for a good sandwich, a fruit and just $500!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Actually, after careful reading of your link to Australian Law advice to photographers in “Public Places”, I’d say that the laws are pretty much the same!

But in Australia, local authorities might have extra restrictions that need to be known, such as photographing in an Olympic Park.

But the wording seems more well mannered in downunder!

Asher
 
Been awhile, I have had a weird year, even without the virus conditions. Outside of my photography I have a small business, which the primary part for was being made by another company from March 2013, until July of this past year (2020). In Nov 2019, they told me that prices were going up 40-50% and so I started researching doing the production myself, I just started going when the virus hit and slowed everything down dramatically. Although I started buying equipment in late March, it took until last week of June to get it all in place to see if I could meet my own quality standards, luckily I could, because in August the folks let me know that at the end of 2020 they would no longer be doing low or medium rate production for anyone (which was the category I fit into), so at that point I had them finish the production I had already ordered and send the molds to me, we lost 3 molds in transit via UPS (neither of us thought to get insurance for the first 3 - UPS HAD been reliable before that), from what little I got, someone at a depot likely broke into the box they were in. $18,000 of molds gone, but the box made it to the UPS Philadelphia depot apparently. The molds are not something that can be sold for other than scrap aluminum. The fortunate part was they were for the most part non-critical molds as they were duplicates or ones that I had several years of stock already in place. On the second shipment, it went by freight and we had insurance. Luckily found a mold make locally to me (who was not available when I went looking back in 2013). I did achieve one of my business photography goals though, found a model who could actually fit the largest of the items I make, so finally had product shots from both the smallest and largest. Since this is the nude forum, I can say what I make as my #1 selling product. Ball Gags and it was the balls that were the part they had been making and I am now making myself. For trivia I sold 1,924 balls last year all told (and gave away another 5 to models), up from 1,253 in 2019.

Anyway back to photography.
So I have hopefully inserted some additional shots from that shoot.
The first is a cropped version. If I had been going for a show the model nude, this is likely what I would have gone for, still artistic in my mind, but all the focus is on the model.
The second is a full frame version (if reduced in size). I actually like this version better because it provides more of a story in my opinion. Could be a mermaid waiting on the beach to distract lonely sailors to their doom. :)
The third is probably my favorite art nude shot of the set that I got with my good camera (Canon 1DsMkIII) Still is (if you don't count the film Hassy I have).

The intention on the shoot and of going to the beach was one of multiple goals.

- I like the morning natural light on the beach, but getting me up that early is always a chore. It has to be late spring to early fall time frame because otherwise it is too cold for the model (I actually brought some hot chocolate along for her - her husband had to fend for himself - he actually had coffee available). However, that time of year the sun comes up earlier than I like to get up.

- I was trying to capture a good art nude (always a goal, outside of my product shots)

- I wanted to play with my Stereo camera rig (two Canon T3i's) in natural bright light.

- That particular beach has a nice long, fairly wide beach area to play with. I also like that if you hike (and I do mean hike as in 30 minutes on sandy beach) around the corner, you don't get too many people strolling by except the occasional special ops folks (being near one of their bases) or the fisherman proceeding up the river and they never mind seeing a nude model as far as I can tell. With this shoot we had a lady walking her dog, enough warning that it would not have been a problem anyway, but she was cool with it.

- Part of the shoot was also playing with the scarves. Something I had been told a couple years before by Jock Sturges at a workshop in Palm Springs; Is that clothing can actually make a nude go from art to erotic if not done right, so that was something I was playing with at the time. I have discovered it more the type of clothing than placement, although placement plays a part.

Anyway sharing a couple more for now.
 

Attachments

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Tim.
It does seem you’ve achieved your goals, although the judgemental approach by describing your goals as “good” might be somewhat Pre-emptive and introduce a sense of disappointment when the photographs are complete.
It does puzzle me when someone approaches and ask if I’ve taken some good shots. In my case, when I present the view screen for their appraisal I often get just a grunt, as if they had mistaken me for a good photographer, which is an entirely different matter, being a judgement on my character.

In another place I might ponder on the photograph as being an image in its own right and thus having meaning different to what is presented objectively. We understand that a Nude photograph isn’t that at all. It’s more likely to be a photograph of something nude or part thereof. From there we will assume people will see more than what the image displays.
Unfortunately, these images fail quite miserably at that. They are, by all intents and purposes, images of a naked woman on a beach, al be it, in different poses.
Success or failure, for those that understand imagery and it’s purpose, will take this defining statement and create abstractions that they might suggest in their own thinking or extrapolate to suggest it was your goal to abstract in a particular direction.

After all, every image can be viewed as an abstraction at many levels.

Perhaps you wanted us to think about the woman in a particular way, or the beach, or the way they interact. Then there’s the possibility you want to demonstrate the general shape and form of all women, or just white ones, or rubinesc ones.

I fear, in any case, your emphasis has been placed on the woman and you’ve left it to her to decide what she thinks you want.
In addition, you’ve left little room for movement with the viewer to see beyond the simple level of abstraction of a nice photo to a deeper and more meaningful one which will provide an endearing and lasting quality.

It would even be difficult for this observer to attach a sense of beauty to either the image or its contents. And I only say that in case you had that intention.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Been awhile, I have had a weird year, even without the virus conditions. Outside of my photography I have a small business, which the primary part for was being made by another company from March 2013, until July of this past year (2020). In Nov 2019, they told me that prices were going up 40-50% and so I started researching doing the production myself, I just started going when the virus hit and slowed everything down dramatically. Although I started buying equipment in late March, it took until last week of June to get it all in place to see if I could meet my own quality standards, luckily I could, because in August the folks let me know that at the end of 2020 they would no longer be doing low or medium rate production for anyone (which was the category I fit into), so at that point I had them finish the production I had already ordered and send the molds to me, we lost 3 molds in transit via UPS (neither of us thought to get insurance for the first 3 - UPS HAD been reliable before that), from what little I got, someone at a depot likely broke into the box they were in. $18,000 of molds gone, but the box made it to the UPS Philadelphia depot apparently. The molds are not something that can be sold for other than scrap aluminum. The fortunate part was they were for the most part non-critical molds as they were duplicates or ones that I had several years of stock already in place. On the second shipment, it went by freight and we had insurance. Luckily found a mold make locally to me (who was not available when I went looking back in 2013). I did achieve one of my business photography goals though, found a model who could actually fit the largest of the items I make, so finally had product shots from both the smallest and largest. Since this is the nude forum, I can say what I make as my #1 selling product. Ball Gags and it was the balls that were the part they had been making and I am now making myself. For trivia I sold 1,924 balls last year all told (and gave away another 5 to models), up from 1,253 in 2019.

Anyway back to photography.
So I have hopefully inserted some additional shots from that shoot.
The first is a cropped version. If I had been going for a show the model nude, this is likely what I would have gone for, still artistic in my mind, but all the focus is on the model.
The second is a full frame version (if reduced in size). I actually like this version better because it provides more of a story in my opinion. Could be a mermaid waiting on the beach to distract lonely sailors to their doom. :)
The third is probably my favorite art nude shot of the set that I got with my good camera (Canon 1DsMkIII) Still is (if you don't count the film Hassy I have).

The intention on the shoot and of going to the beach was one of multiple goals.

- I like the morning natural light on the beach, but getting me up that early is always a chore. It has to be late spring to early fall time frame because otherwise it is too cold for the model (I actually brought some hot chocolate along for her - her husband had to fend for himself - he actually had coffee available). However, that time of year the sun comes up earlier than I like to get up.

- I was trying to capture a good art nude (always a goal, outside of my product shots)

- I wanted to play with my Stereo camera rig (two Canon T3i's) in natural bright light.

- That particular beach has a nice long, fairly wide beach area to play with. I also like that if you hike (and I do mean hike as in 30 minutes on sandy beach) around the corner, you don't get too many people strolling by except the occasional special ops folks (being near one of their bases) or the fisherman proceeding up the river and they never mind seeing a nude model as far as I can tell. With this shoot we had a lady walking her dog, enough warning that it would not have been a problem anyway, but she was cool with it.

- Part of the shoot was also playing with the scarves. Something I had been told a couple years before by Jock Sturges at a workshop in Palm Springs; Is that clothing can actually make a nude go from art to erotic if not done right, so that was something I was playing with at the time. I have discovered it more the type of clothing than placement, although placement plays a part.

Anyway sharing a couple more for now.
Tim,

I like that your essay here demonstrates the wide overlapping intents and uses of photography of the nude.

I know for myself, the nude in my own studio is more of a medium of artistic experimentation using a natural curved physical form that can assume an endless array of transformations, with or without emotional, sensual or erotic expressions.

I find myself always surprised by what a model, with few instructions does on her own. Jock Sturges told me that he merely provides the setting and the girl or woman reacts herself to that situation and he follows. Likely as not, by where he places the model and the position from which Je shoots he is, even subconsciously directing those poses that he claims are hers!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I am so grateful to see your contributions, especially since they are nothing like anything I do and are so simply set without props and with a model I would not select for my own narrow needs!

Asher
 
I am appreciating the comments, even if not doing beach shots, I think they are either reminding me of things I had forgotten or in some cases providing me with something I had not thought of.

I will be creating a product shot thread in a moment and possibly a model portfolio shot thread (they will be in the nude figures section because that is what I do).
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Quite frankly this thread baffles me. All of it: the pictures (of course), the questions asked, Tom's comments and Asher's answers. This is the Internet at its finest. Maybe Tim should move to a country where meeting people naked at the beach is a regular occurrence.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Quite frankly this thread baffles me. All of it: the pictures (of course), the questions asked, Tom's comments and Asher's answers. This is the Internet at its finest. Maybe Tim should move to a country where meeting people naked at the beach is a regular occurrence.
Jérôme,

I’m reminded of my education visiting a fellow photographer in Munich, decades ago. There’s a beautiful lake around which folk picnic and some happen to sunbathe nude.

I saw that the 7-10 year old daughters of my friends accepted the sunbathers as part of the normal scene. So I reacted the same, as if I too was used to it all.

But to someone from haughty England, it’s quite extraordinary behavior outside a nudist camp!

No one looked awkward, lying nude on the grass and no one singled them out for photography, as it was so ordinary.

I really appreciated that.

@ Tim, so where would that place your pictures? Would you still be shooting your same nude pictures where this was so everyday a sight?

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
To add to that, my youngest son, then aged 16, was in Cap D’Aill France supposedly to learn French. Well he called me urgently to let me know that right now, wherever he looked on the beach were nude breasts, as far as the eye could see.

I asked him what was I supposed toDow about it and did he remember that I happened to have a wife, in particular his mother!

There’s no doubt that nude women can be so stimulating and exciting when one is totally unprepared for the sight.

When I was in Nigeria it was just another day in Ibadan!

Nudity is not the problem, perhaps, rather the ritual of artificially hiding the body even when we are not obese or wounded by battle!
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I would think that this was about 35 years ago. How time flies!

(I would know the approximate years, because nude breast went out of fashion around that time).
 
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Quote: "@ Tim, so where would that place your pictures? Would you still be shooting your same nude pictures where this was so everyday a sight?

Asher"

A good question.

And I have to answer I am not sure because that is not what I grew up with.
I personally don't have a nudity taboo, like most Americans, but I do have the don't embarrass others thing kind of programmed into me, so I personally generally avoid being nude where someone else can see me.

I was stationed in Germany for a couple years in the 1980's (82-84) and I still remember that some of my co-workers would not go down to the local pool spa because it had coed saunas. I didn't have a problem other than wearing a strategically placed towel for a relatively short period. I have also been to the near opposite extreme of Saudi Arabia.

My most related to this answer story is that on my second trip to Saudi I was doing secondary image distribution for the allied forces in theater. This was during operation Southern Watch (pre Bush II). The unit back in the states would send me the images and then I would distribute to other locations in theater as appropriate via an internet like system called JDISS. that was a version local to only the theater (in the 90's the internet was not as complete as it is today). Whether we had anything to receive that day or not we had to test the machine daily in the morning in case something important came in at any time. So when they had nothing better to send us the folks would send us one of the pages from Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition of that year (I bought when I got home and still have it). We would have to test the printer anyway, so we would print out one copy and than rather than throw it out would tape inside the locker for equipment and supplies we had.

Well one day our female captain decided to see what was in the locker. I still remember her statement.
Captain: Sergeant Dolan, what are these?
Me: Test Images Ma'am, They send one a day if they have nothing else to send.
Captain: Why are they printed and taped in this locker
Me: Because we have to also test the printer anyway
Captain: And you know the Saudi's would not allow you to have these off the compound?
Me: Yes, Ma'am
Captain: If this were the states you would be in SOOOO much trouble, but since this is Saudi Arabia (and she really really hated the restrictions on women in Saudi), keep up the good work.
She went on to say that normally she would not appreciate the pictures being in a work space, but given how much the Saudi's restricted women she was thinking that it was a good way to get back at them just a little.
I pointed out that had it been anywhere else, there is no way I would have let them even keep sending them, but I thought the Saudi's restrictions were really stupid. She was happy with that answer and let it continue as long as I was there.
I also knew that certain individuals can get things very easily past customs as well as no alcohol allowed in country but they have a bottle shop, grain shop, and yeast shop all separated by one other shop in between. In other words all the fixings for making your own alcohol all together, but not together so as to violate their law. So some serious hypocrisy going on. Mind you I am allergic to grain alcohols, so would not do me any good anyway.

Meanwhile back to the question, I think yes I would still take pictures of nude women even if they were very common, just probably more often outside and much less in the studio. Still with their permission of course. I happen to think women's bodies are beautiful (at least more so than mans, we are kind of clunky looking to me). And given the products I make, although I still occasionally try to get male models, I much prefer female models myself.
 
Also forgot to mention, I can not send a ball gag to certain countries, but interestingly I can send a pet ball and pet collar, which look a lot like my ball gags except separate packaged to be put together ;)
The latest was an "exercise bar", which looked a lot like one of my spreader bars. I keep meaning to take a picture with a couple of 5-gallon buckets hanging from it just for that purpose. It would work for that after all.

I do not lie on custom's forms, but I am very flexible with what things can be used for.

And for the record I have made actual pet collars for dogs (and one cat) and have given reject balls to other folks to use a dog balls. So I am not lying. I just don't ask if that is what they are actually using it for if it is certain restrictive countries. But since I get please be discrete requests even from Western European countries, including Germany. some folks have hangups no matter the country.
but still on ALL international customs forms it is listed as "Silicone ball and Leather Strap".
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
...and all during those early years I was still thinking of the bonding between cis_platinum and guanine in DNA! We were in such different worlds, LOL!

Asher
 
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