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  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

The Canon G10 is out..... and a gem and now the Canon G11 is in!

Cem_Usakligil

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
doug anderson said:
Anybody used one? I'm itching to buy one and anxious for an expert review.

D
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Too bad I bought the G9 just 6 months ago. But hey, it is all part of this game. ;-)
I, too, am curious about the actual reviews and how the noise characteristics will be. My G9 is not really good at and above ISO 400.

Cheers,
 
D

doug anderson

New member
Cem_Usakligil said:
Too bad I bought the G9 just 6 months ago. But hey, it is all part of this game. ;-)
I, too, am curious about the actual reviews and how the noise characteristics will be. My G9 is not really good at and above ISO 400.

Cheers,
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CEM: Other than the noise, how do you like your G9? The G10 is supposed to handle noise much better. I have seen some good photos taken with a G9.

D
 
K

Ken Tanaka

pro member
I've very much enjoyed my G9 for the past year. In fact it is slightly noisier than its G7 predecessor (hard to make direct comparison, since G7 was jpg-only), due to the increase in resolution. But even so, noise really wasn't a big issue for me.

The far bigger issue for me has been the shot-to-shot recovery time in single-shot mode. The G9's lag can get a bit under my skin. So given that the G10 uses exactly the same 1/1.7" sensor and packs even more pixels onto it I've decided to wait and see whether it's worth the update. Frankly, from the specs, I don't see the great value over the G9 at this point.
 
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

pro member
Ken Tanaka said:
Frankly, from the specs, I don't see the great value over the G9 at this point.
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Well, having looked/fondled it at the Photokina 2008, I'd have to say I'm interested (which is an understatement) eventhough I have 'better' cameras to shoot quality stuff with. The LCD is spectacular, and the face recognition focus offered by the Digic 4 looks impressive.

I'm confident that noise above ISO 80, and diffraction at most all apertures will pose a challenge at the pixel level. However, that's not what the Powershot G-series is about.

Bart
 
D

doug anderson

New member
I've Decided Against It

I'm going to keep my Contax G2 and shoot film in it. Maybe in another few years there will be a noise-less Canon G series.
 
B

Bart_van_der_Wolf

pro member
doug anderson said:
Maybe in another few years there will be a noise-less Canon G series.
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Hi Doug,

Well, plain physics predicts it won't be possible with such small sensels. However, when downsampling with a quality algorithm, the noise should already become less apparent due to the averaging that's going to be involved. Also a treatment with NeatImage, NoiseNinja, or Noiseware, will perform miracles. The most challenging drawback of small sensels, is the lack of dynamic range.

As far as the G10 goes, I'm not sold yet, I need to see the Raw data files first, but I'm tempted by the other features. I'm also strong in resisting temptation, or so I hope ;-) .

Bart
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Michael does stick his neck out but I do think he's correct. The point to ask is what are you taking a picture for? Will it be printed 10 ft high or on two page magazine spread? What apertures are needed. The G10 will show its best quality at fairly open apertures and michael used f3.5. Try that at a smaller aperture and it will quickly degrade.

Now if one wants to go up to ISO 1600 both the Phase One and the G10 would likely be inferior to the Nikon D700, the D4 and the 1DsIII and the 5DII.

Still Michael make the point and as I have said for a long time, that digicams have reached a point of quality where they can replace the most expensive cameras under some conditions.

One case would be at a wedding reception where a G10 could take care of the reception shots! I'd mount the flash on an arm to make it look more important, LOL!

Asher
 
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J

John Sheehy

New member
Ken Tanaka said:
The far bigger issue for me has been the shot-to-shot recovery time in single-shot mode. The G9's lag can get a bit under my skin.
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Do you use a fast SDHC card, and low-level format it in the camera? That can greatly decrease the shot-to-shot time in RAW mode.
 
K

Ken Tanaka

pro member
John Sheehy said:
Do you use a fast SDHC card, and low-level format it in the camera? That can greatly decrease the shot-to-shot time in RAW mode.
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Yes I do use SDHC cards with the G9. It does help but there's still quite a lag. Not really strenuously complaining, though. It's still a mean picture machine.
 
Alain Briot

Alain Briot

pro member
Of course one of the important questions is what type of work do you do? If you print large, the G10 won't do it. If you need a large viewfinder to see the composition precisely, it won't do it either. If you need extremely wide or long lenses, same thing. If you need tilt shift capabilities forget it. I'm sure there's more reasons. Just add yours to this list.

Keep in mind that the list works the other way around as well: digital backs, or pro DSLR's, can't do what the G10 can do. They won't fit in the glove compartment. They are not discrete. They are heavy, cumbersome, expensive. Etc. They are overkill for many people (how often do you print larger than 10x15 or use an 800 mm lens )?

Eventually, the matter is fairly simple. At $500 the G10 is very affordable. If you are so inclined, get one. I will. But I will continue using digital backs as well :) They are just different tools for different jobs. That both can rival in quality is good news. However, one won't replace the other.
 
M

Martin Kuivenhoven

Member
Asher Kelman said:
Michael does stick his neck out but I do think he's correct. The point to ask is what are you taking a picture for? Will it be printed 10 ft high or on two page magazine spread? What apertures are needed. The G10 will show its best quality at fairly open apertures and michael used f3.5. Try that at a smaller aperture and it will quickly degrade.

Now if one wants to go up to ISO 1600 both the Phase One and the G10 would likely be inferior to the Nikon D700, the D4 and the 1DsIII and the 5DII.

Still Michael make the point and as I have said for a long time, that digicams have reached a point of quality where they can replace the most expensive cameras under some conditions.

One case would be at a wedding reception where a G10 could take care of the reception shots! I'd mount the flash on an arm to make it look more important, LOL!

Asher
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I also think he is very right, especially since I regard myself as one of those photographers who will not (or better not yet) be able to fully utilize the camera's capabilties.

But on the other hand MR also declared "Four Thirds a dead end". And if you would consequently follow the reasoning his revelation just as much applies to the Four Thirds camera's, even more to the new micro Four Thirds camera's or the whole family of top tier compacts like the Nikon P6000, Panasonic LX3 etc.

Another point that imho misses is the the reference to capable camera's outperforming their users. As I do have a G9 and indeed I do not think I utilize the camera to its fullest capabilities I certainly prefer my Olympus E-1 for most photography, so even for the not to experienced shooters the difference is still easy to experience. With shallower depth of field and longer lenses being the easy examples.

The Canon Powershot G10 is undoubtely a fine example but it is an example. It now starts to become a kind of G10 worshipping..

Martin
 
Cem_Usakligil

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Bart_van_der_Wolf said:
Well, he did say there are differences at the pixel level, and that he only used a limited number of apertures. He also did not mention the lack of dynamic range, which is intriguing!

Bart
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Hi Bart,

So did you hear some news about the dynamic range of G10, is it problematic?
I am intrigued too :)

Cheers,
 
B

Bart_van_der_Wolf

pro member
Cem_Usakligil said:
Hi Bart,

So did you hear some news about the dynamic range of G10, is it problematic?
I am intrigued too :)
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The point is I haven't heard anything, which surprises me. A sensor array like the G10's with such small sensels can only be DR limited, it's plain physics. So the lack of any comments seems suspicious, unless one's looking at a semi-Raw format, slightly pre-cooked by the Digic 4.

It also would be interesting to understand, with the 5D Mark II around the corner and using the same ASIC.

Bart
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Bart_van_der_Wolf said:
The point is I haven't heard anything, which surprises me. A sensor array like the G10's with such small sensels can only be DR limited, it's plain physics. So the lack of any comments seems suspicious, unless one's looking at a semi-Raw format, slightly pre-cooked by the Digic 4.

It also would be interesting to understand, with the 5D Mark II around the corner and using the same ASIC.
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Bart,

There are features of the G10 that make it compelling under certain situations. First socially it's black, not large and can be silent. That means it can be used with less disruption of the environment. A phase One or Canon DSLR would not make it.

Further the ISO settings and exposure compensation dials on the top are simple and brilliantly practical features for fluid shooting.

I think that the camera performs excellently below ISO 400. By 800 there are real issues with noise. However, to get the shot, one can do it.

Now, here's the big question. If all you want is an 720x640 pictures for a slide show or else an 8x10 print, where could Noise Ninja and reduction in size help. It should be that the diffraction being imaged by the sensor would be gone with shrinking the image. Same with noise.

Asher
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Ken Tanaka said:
Actually, yes. The G11 will begin shipping in October.
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Hi Ken,

The 14.7 MP G10 has been and is a wonderful pocket camera, with a 28-140mm (35mm equivalent) 5x zoom lens, one of the best little digicams Canon has made. The beauty is in the analog top controls which allow instant changing of ISO and exposure compensation. I love the fact that it's absolutely silent! That's amazing but true. Where it lacks is the noise especially above ISO 400. When they give "higher ISOs" I'm not sure that they really do that! In B&W film photography, at least, ISO depends on properly imaging the gray tones. It's these which are lost in the G10 and replaced by horrible grain as the ISO levels are increased. Still one can have pretty usably B&W pictures at the higher ISOs.

The coming G11, by contrast offers just 10 MP and the pixel density decreases from 34 MP/cm² pixel density to just 23 MP/cm² pixel density. Hopefully we'll see cleaner pictures at ISO 400. If it is just 1-2 stops better in low light sensitivity than the G11 it will be well worth my purchase.

I wish that they had updated the lens, but this seems to be a stopgap camera and so it was perhaps too much to expect. Hopefully Canon will surprise everyone with a professional version of the G series boasting an L lens and the 7D or 5DII sensor! Now what would you pay for that?

Asher
 
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