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The Leica M and the ME

fahim mohammed

Active member
I have to say that I am very interested in the Leica M. Sat out the M9. Now, I shall wade in once some
test reports are in and sample images have been put up.

There usually niggles in the beginning. Let's get it sorted out and then I shall dust off some of R lenses too!!

I am excited!! Well done Leica.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I have to say that I am very interested in the Leica M. Sat out the M9. Now, I shall wade in once some
test reports are in and sample images have been put up.

There usually niggles in the beginning. Let's get it sorted out and then I shall dust off some of R lenses too!!

I am excited!! Well done Leica.
Fahim,

For anyone with a set of Leica lenses and a previous digital body, the new M cameras will be only a modestly luxurious upgrade expense. After all, the previous Leicas hold their value well and so you can sell of either an M8 or M9 to cover most of the cost, or else, mail one to me! :)

Asher
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
Although it seems like a dream come true, you have to muse however that it might be worth waiting for the FF Nex (next year) which will do all of the M's features and at a fraction of the price, probably smaller too and of course you get the same lenses. No it won't be a Leica but as the Leica interview on DPReview sort of hints to, nowadays even the leicas are just electronics and when you can't buy a battery any more or the parts aren't made any more, the 'investment' just no longer makes sense. You have to treat it like the soon to be out of date consumer electronics that it is unfortunately these days.

Kudos to Leica for making a top level and modern camera in a minimalistic design for a price which is perhaps finally no longer too much. However unless you specifically want a rangefinder or the Leica aesthetic, not sure it makes sense any more. There will be much cheaper and as fully spec'd FF alternatives for the Leica way of shooting and lenses and in the near future. The compromises for a small body using leica lenses just aren't going to be there for much longer if Sony has its way.
 

fahim mohammed

Active member
Fahim,

For anyone with a set of Leica lenses and a previous digital body, the new M cameras will be only a modestly luxurious upgrade expense. After all, the previous Leicas hold their value well and so you can sell of either an M8 or M9 to cover most of the cost, or else, mail one to me! :)

Asher
Asher, selling a Leica ( cam or lens ) is the most difficult part!!

Best.
 

fahim mohammed

Active member
Ben, my mind and my wallet agree with you a 100%.

But the heart, Ben! The heart.!! Often when I photograph, I go with the heart; as I am sure you do too.

Take care.

Although it seems like a dream come true, you have to muse however that it might be worth waiting for the FF Nex (next year) which will do all of the M's features and at a fraction of the price, probably smaller too and of course you get the same lenses. No it won't be a Leica but as the Leica interview on DPReview sort of hints to, nowadays even the leicas are just electronics and when you can't buy a battery any more or the parts aren't made any more, the 'investment' just no longer makes sense. You have to treat it like the soon to be out of date consumer electronics that it is unfortunately these days.

Kudos to Leica for making a top level and modern camera in a minimalistic design for a price which is perhaps finally no longer too much. However unless you specifically want a rangefinder or the Leica aesthetic, not sure it makes sense any more. There will be much cheaper and as fully spec'd FF alternatives for the Leica way of shooting and lenses and in the near future. The compromises for a small body using leica lenses just aren't going to be there for much longer if Sony has its way.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Although it seems like a dream come true, you have to muse however that it might be worth waiting for the FF Nex (next year) which will do all of the M's features and at a fraction of the price, probably smaller too and of course you get the same lenses.
Not quite the same features. And, of course, a FF Nex is only a prediction and may never realize. We don't know.

For the sake of the exercise, let us suppose that a FF Nex is announced. Being FF, it will be more expensive than the NEX 7, probably over 2500€ (to be compared with the M.E. at 4800€). For that price, you'll get typical Sony NEX ergonomics (i.e. modal dials or a touch screen), an EVF and no telemeter. Possibly pink corners with your wide angles. But it will probably be lighter and smaller.

Is that what you want?

Then, of course, you may also only get that camera at 5000€ or more under the Hasselblad brand and ostrich skin covering. Interesting times we are living.
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
I had forgotten about the corners, unlikely that Sony will bother to the same extent that Leica must have done with the new M chip design.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
I'm waiting for the model that keeps the beer cold, calls me when dinner is ready, has satellite connection so I can watch the footy and comes with something tall, blonde and curvatious; preferably female, but if it keeps the beer cold who cares. I'll share.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
What are the special features of the new Leica M that make it so worthwhile? Surely it's not live-view as that would be an admission that the basic idea behind the Leica being a rangefinder is now passé!

Asher
 

fahim mohammed

Active member
What are the special features of the new Leica M that make it so worthwhile? Surely it's not live-view as that would be an admission that the basic idea behind the Leica being a rangefinder is now passé!

Asher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_4xHIqU4t8

From the specs only, for me it is satisfyingly conservative and traditionalist in design. Retaining the rangefinder dna; and tiptoeing in to the modern camera era. However, the add-ons are just that add-ons. One does not have to purchase them, if not needed.

It does not satisfy everyone's, wants/needs/desires. No camera does that, for me at least. However,
it meets all my requirements...simple, ergonomic, M with the capabilities I need. Live view, yes. Movie, yes. Ability to use R lenses, yes. Focus peaking, yes. External EVF, yes..like that because much easier to improve external evf design than an internal one. GPS, yes. Flash, yes.

This is all from the specs. It remains to been seen whether the Belgian designed/fabricated/manufactured sensor is up to the task..or is it just the hype.

It seems to mark all the boxes for me. The difficult task for me, however, has not been the camera/s.
Taking interesting images has been my issue.

Best.
 

Robert Watcher

Active member
I'm waiting for the model that keeps the beer cold, calls me when dinner is ready, has satellite connection so I can watch the footy and comes with something tall, blonde and curvatious; preferably female, but if it keeps the beer cold who cares. I'll share.
Almost there with the iPhone 5. I was babysitting my sons daughter yesterday and he came home with his new iPhone 5 - - - fresh from taking some pictures. They were excellent. Detail and clarity on the images when zoomed in, looked amazing for a phone. Then he showed me wide panoramas that he had taken in a town square while he was working - and followed up creating the same in the dark living room we were sitting in. Point - hit the start button - follow the arrow and turn slowly - stop - - - - upload to Facebook or anywhere else. From a location no where close to his home Mac computer, he had turned on the new phone outside the mall where he purchased it, and all contacts and info that he had previously entered on his other devices, magically appeared from the Cloud and propagated the new interface. He talked to Siri and had any app open or function take place or could phone and text anyone without lifting a finger. He can use Apple maps to guide him turn by turn to the exact location he has been before or wants to go to take his pictures. I'm sure there was an App to get him a cold beer too. Boy things are changing fast. LOL



Rob
 

George Holroyd

New member
Ah, the Leica mystique. I think it has more to do with Leitz' ability to re-hash old technology than image making. There will be no shortage of folks falling all over themselves to extol it's virtues, no doubt.
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
Ah, the Leica mystique. I think it has more to do with Leitz' ability to re-hash old technology than image making. There will be no shortage of folks falling all over themselves to extol it's virtues, no doubt.
I'm not sure that your comment can be justified in relation to the M. With the exception of manual focus, the choice of Zeiss and now Schneider as the way to maximise modern 35mm megapixel counts, the M seems to be as modern as any other similar camera with a high res screen, weatherproofing, a brand new sensor, use of a modern EVF as well as an OVF, is the only FF and high megapixel/high iso camera of it's type (interchangeable) and is built to a noticeably higher standard than the other mirrorless offerings. You could use that argument about the M9 or the ME no doubt, though again they are and have been the only FF mirrorless solution on the market but I do believe that the M is a new paradigm. The lenses of course cannot be doubted including in the light of the most demanding and modern sensors.
 

Michael Nagel

Active member
Fahim - this one is excellent - composition and moment.

There is something that bugs me already for some time and is a little OT for this thread:

We have a rangefinder camera with a 36x24mm sensor.
This is great news.

There is however a rangefinder that fascinates me since I knew it exists:
It is the Mamiya 7.

As Mamiya is part of LEAF - was there never the idea to replace film with a decent MF sensor?
This would be great news!

Best regards,
Michael
 

George Holroyd

New member
I'm not sure that your comment can be justified in relation to the M. With the exception of manual focus, the choice of Zeiss and now Schneider as the way to maximise modern 35mm megapixel counts, the M seems to be as modern as any other similar camera with a high res screen, weatherproofing, a brand new sensor, use of a modern EVF as well as an OVF, is the only FF and high megapixel/high iso camera of it's type (interchangeable) and is built to a noticeably higher standard than the other mirrorless offerings. You could use that argument about the M9 or the ME no doubt, though again they are and have been the only FF mirrorless solution on the market but I do believe that the M is a new paradigm. The lenses of course cannot be doubted including in the light of the most demanding and modern sensors.
Why can't the lenses be doubted? Have you seen a comparison to other 35mm lenses? I haven't. Come to think of it, are there any credible comparisons of Leica products against other brands? It seems to me that the folks who review Leica tend to do so in a vacuum. I'd be happy to read a side-by-side comparison between the new M and the Nikon D600 or new Sony 24 mp cameras, but I won't hold my breath.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Simplicity. The basics. That's what attracts me to Leica.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFT-duedoV4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sometimes, I like the other choices out there too.





Fahim,

Of course this picture is not only a wonderful capture of a fleeting moment with a precious child, where she made contact as she runs off, but also is likely to be a notch higher technical quality than many other cameras could deliver. Still, I would offer that few 35 mm-ish cameras today would have limited or prevented such a precious image to have been made in that same moment by you! It took all the mistakes and successes of many years of judgment and selection, not the Leica to get that shot.

But my photos are simple, of simple things.I use a simple camera. My Leica.
Eartha Kitt's magic song plays in my mind when I hear your repeated words about simple things we see and own!

Asher
 

fahim mohammed

Active member
Asher, my good friend.

You give me high marks for a chance occurrence. But it is very welcome and received with gratitude.
Eartha Kitt!! What a marvellous voice; her and Aretha Franklin. Super.

In simplicity is Elegance. And Elegance never goes out of style.

Best regards.

....

....
Fahim,

Of course this picture is not only a wonderful capture of a fleeting moment with a precious child, where she made contact as she runs off, but also is likely to be a notch higher technical quality than many other cameras could deliver. Still, I would offer that few 35 mm-ish cameras today would have limited or prevented such a precious image to have been made in that same moment by you! It took all the mistakes and successes of many years of judgment and selection, not the Leica to get that shot.



Eartha Kitt's magic song plays in my mind when I hear your repeated words about simple things we see and own!

Asher
 

fahim mohammed

Active member
Michael, thank you. Much appreciated.

I have never investigated MF. has always been way beyond my means. Sorry cannot be of any help
on this one.

Take care.

Fahim - this one is excellent - composition and moment.

There is something that bugs me already for some time and is a little OT for this thread:

We have a rangefinder camera with a 36x24mm sensor.
This is great news.

There is however a rangefinder that fascinates me since I knew it exists:
It is the Mamiya 7.

As Mamiya is part of LEAF - was there never the idea to replace film with a decent MF sensor?
This would be great news!

Best regards,
Michael
 
Why can't the lenses be doubted? Have you seen a comparison to other 35mm lenses? I haven't. Come to think of it, are there any credible comparisons of Leica products against other brands? It seems to me that the folks who review Leica tend to do so in a vacuum. I'd be happy to read a side-by-side comparison between the new M and the Nikon D600 or new Sony 24 mp cameras, but I won't hold my breath.
As far as the lenses go, Lloyd Chambers - but you have to pay.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Comparing lenses is a difficult undertaking, when one wants to go beyond the simple sharpness test of a flat subject at a few meters distance. What are we supposed to compare? If the lens transmits fine details in the plane of sharpness? If the lens has nice contrast? If the rendering of out of focus zones is pleasing? How the colors are rendered? And, of course, we want to know that at various distances and apertures.

And even then, we may find out that, for a perfectly fine lens on most subjects, some aberrations may preclude some uses (coma for example).
 

George Holroyd

New member
Comparing lenses is a difficult undertaking, when one wants to go beyond the simple sharpness test of a flat subject at a few meters distance. What are we supposed to compare? If the lens transmits fine details in the plane of sharpness? If the lens has nice contrast? If the rendering of out of focus zones is pleasing? How the colors are rendered? And, of course, we want to know that at various distances and apertures.

And even then, we may find out that, for a perfectly fine lens on most subjects, some aberrations may preclude some uses (coma for example).
There exist software (Imatest) to make the task of objectively comparing lenses less difficult. Given similarly spec'd imaging sensors, such as found on the latest Sony/Nikon/Leica offerings and like focal lengths at various apertures, one could go a long way toward deciding how a particular sensor/lens pair performs relative to the competition.

With the Leica, I would expect to see a rather large performance increase for my money. They may be different tools for different tasks, as is often written when the subject of comparison comes up, but they each compete for my dollars.
 
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