Tightening Up Forum Structure: first camera fora! Give your ideas.

[Asher Kelman]

Guys,

There is to me less reason now to have DSLR thread separate because of Leica, Zeiss, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus and other lenses being used with so many cameras.

Also the issues discussed of read noise and color spaces, IR use and so forth cross over between cameras. So what do you think of making all DSLR's which can swap lenses in one large forum?

We are after all about the intent and the delivered pictures.

So what do you think? Some of us feel that at least there should be only one forum for Canon DSLR's and then another for Nikon and a Thirds for others. Alternatively we could have just one DSLR forum since so may lenses are used with all of them with adapters.

Asher

Other changes will be subsequently put up for discussion.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

I am all for it. We do not need a separate forum for each DSLR manufacturer.
I'd divide it into 4 fora in total:
1) Digicams
2) DSLR (including lenses)
3) MF & LF
4) Rangefinders

Cheers,

Cem

 

[nicolas claris]

I still would like to keep some "structure", say:

1) Digicams
2) DSLR Canon
3) DSLR Nikon
4/ DSLR others
5) Lenses
6) MF & LF
7) Rangefinders

 

[Asher Kelman]

Frankly I'd love to have one super DSLR forum. We can still have diaries on the experience with each new camera.

Still, let the forum speak!

 

[Kathy Rappaport]

Are we voting or is this a Monarchy?

I side with Cem. His list is perfect. But do we get to vote or is this a Monarchy, King Asher?

 

[Dierk Haasis]

The very low traffic in the Nikon - and the Canon? - forum show that the division is not just arbitrary and artificial. It isn't very helpful. In a more technical oriented forum, like the dreaded DPR, it might make sense since the flame wars are kept separate.

As Asher wrote, we are after the image, not about whose is bigger ... Most technical discussion I have seen here have equal value for Canonites and Nikonientes, or, for that matter, digicamerata and dSLRitos.

It's only a matter of numbers, will there be an overwhelming number of posts per day if all the camera boards are put togerther? If not, I'd streamline them into one board, not even four.

 

[nicolas claris]

Frankly I'd love to have one super DSLR forum. We can still have diaries on the experience with each new camera.

Still, let the forum speak!

You all seem to forget empathy… you're all regular users and have your own way to find what you want in OPF.
So I do.

But, when I'm searching for info on a lens or a particular body and surf fora, I jump in it was easy to find.

Best organized are best found! if you pour all threads into the same pot, the pot becomes a garbage. I don't search into garbage.

Please forget your own little selfish needs and think to other people passing by, finding (hopefully!) what they look for and then maybe decide to stay with us…

So for sure you understood me, I wish detailed summary!

PS to have diaries (I know what I'm speaking about) you'll need to have regular enriched diaries otherwise people won't look at them…

 

[Asher Kelman]

Kathy,

Every so often, it's good to hear what people consider is valuable to them. Whatever we do will be very carefully approached!

Asher

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Frankly I'd love to have one super DSLR forum. We can still have diaries on the experience with each new camera.

Still, let the forum speak!

The risk of having only one DSLR forum, is that certain brand owners will feel lonely, and may refrain from posting. It'll also be 'harder' to search for brand specific info. It's just a matter of marketshares, and has little to do with how vocal certain brandowners are. However, we do want non-Canon owners to also speak up, participate, and share.

Bart

 

[Dierk Haasis]

[W]e do want non-Canon owners to also speak up, participate, and share.

Good one. Nevertheless, I do not see the need for segregation, to the contrary, I feel the forum splits all over add to the completely irrational Brand X vs. Barnd Y. Apart from the odd 'where's the button' post the questions, answers and opinions about photography in its application are the same for all of us. Even if we are using Minoltas, Konica-Minoltas or Sonys ...

Did I mention that I do not see a gulf betwixt dSLRs and digicams? Three may have been one in film days - before Olympus came up with their first Bridge-camera, compacts couldn't compete with SLRs, feature-wise or in quality. But today the differences are much smaller. It is now Web-cam-module cams vs. dedicated digital cameras.

 

[Mike Shimwell]

In a more technical oriented forum, like the dreaded DPR, it might make sense since the flame wars are kept separate.
QUOTE]

Really! and have you seen the trouble some of the the digicamerata have been causing over on LL recently...

More seriously, I don't really mind. I like OPF because we're about the image and not the gear - apart from the using the right gear to make the image we desire. There is a wealth of technical knowledge here, that is easily and kindly shared, and yet none of it seem brand aware. I think that's good, and am not sure that it could change if all the dslr posts were in one place - it woudn't suddenly become too cumbersome I think.

Mike

 

[John_Nevill]

IMHO, OPF has far too many forums (50) on the index page, you need to start using sub forums. With this many, it gets difficult to know where to post what topic.

I agree that separating pro from amateur bodies is a bit too granular, but combining all makes under one banner may be going to far.

But then again what direction is OPF going in? What audeince is it now targeting?

It seems to me that some of the new forums push and pull in different directions e.g. topic diversity v consolidation.

Forums should maintain some clearly defined structured categories or they become a chaotic, free for all, post anywhere and let admin sort it out environments.

I firmly believe in the the keep it simple approach, put the more granular, obscure and artistic fora under clearly defined generic parents.

Anyhow, that's my 4penneth!

Remember theres' always the search function ;-)

 

[Michael Fontana]

I don't care how you do it, but tightening up the forum structure is a real need!

Just my two pixels...

 

[Asher Kelman]

Bart, John, Michael, Mike, Dierk,

Thanks for the additional ideas and support.

We are doing things organizationally to allow for newbies/film guys to learn digital, people to work on a topic of interest, everyone else not to be driven crazy with multiple overlapping threads. So here's what we have recently done:

Entry Level Digital: obvious

Still Photo: Emphasizes the creative origins of photographic art.

Photography as Art: Shows and discusses finished work as an art object

Riskit! A New Forum to accommodate all of us who from time to time need to go out of ourt zone of comfort and explore new ideas or areas in which we are not expert and where there is little immediate liklehood of delivering a client-ready image. So this is to be a place for experts and enthusiasts to experiment and take risks. As a consequence, there has to be realistic, tough, well-mannered love!

Consolidation of Threads: This is a major tool we have been using. In one case, we combined some 8-12 threads as the photographer was really dealing with variations of the same unique pathway of expression. Separate threads is inefficient as critique really belongs to that whole approach. We will be doing much more of this.

John Nevill's point on the presentation of our forums and how we navigate, we'll address that with some design choices next.

Camera Threads Unless there is a major objection, we will have but one Canon and one Nikon DSLR forum and then one "Other" naming the other brands.

The search engine here, as was mentioned really does work!

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

From now on, you may see this notice when related threads of one photographer are joined:

"So why did I move your latest picture here? The answer, "Mega-Threads"! Well firstly we are trying to give good posters "mega-threads" in which they can continue to post on a related subject, so that we can see a progression in that photographer's work. That makes the experience more enjoyable and then comments don't need to be repeated in parallel threads."

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

A CALL FOR YOUR HELP! Lately we've had multiple threads started instead of posting in existing threads. So let it be known, we'll always try to consolidate such multiples to one coherent look at a body of related work. Do your best, but if you don't immediately see your work, it's part of a larger thread or has been re-titled to open it up.

I send PM's but it's getting to be too many! So everyone lookout! We need to be disciplined to make things work. Post your very best and then try to put it in the right place! We get the most out of your work that way! More eyeballs!

Asher

P.S. If you discover a better place for your new post, let any moderator know and they can move it for you!

 

[Asher Kelman]

Guide to new threads: Here's our current approach:

1. Look for existing threads that fit.
   
   
2. If you are energetic in one area, posting many different variant subjects along one general path (especially where you are not so ready for sales or exhibition), then feel free to start your own personal broad thread in "Riskit!". It's like your blog for that line of your work. Then we see how your ideas are moving forward. You'll maximize attention to your body of work. That way, we can see trends not just individual photographs and comment will be easier and beneficial to everyone.
   
   
3. Wildlife and Landscape: There's a high standard of photography where the pictures are technically superb and the subject is identified, introduced with some interesting disclosures on habitat, tricks in getting such a shot, lens specifics and so forth. Still, much of our work does require help. Feel free to post such less than stellar images too. We want them! But be selective and still introduce your image and what help you might be looking for. If in doubt, ask by PM or else post in Layback Café or Introduction to Digital and we'll move selected pictures to wildlife.
   
4. Then we have snap shots, poor focus, you know such images. What can we do?

Guide to Posts:

1. Be generous in reading new posts. Don't expect responses when you, yourself are not paying attention and being generous with your own time. It's sad to see a good picture not commented on. We hate to see orphan threads! See what you can do to help us with this issue.

2. Pick your best pictures (up to 4) and one subject per post. Don't show 4 different pictures with unrelated subjects or issue. They need to have a common beauty, idea or problem to be shared. with us. Introduce your photograph, tell us what you think, how it was taken and what you would like. Guide us. Otherwise, how do we know what to respond to?

3. Have no fear! Post where you feel it's best. We'll move it if need be and give a forwarding link.

4. Broadening title: Except in "Riskit!" where it's about one photographer's path to a goal, try to allow for others to contribute great images too.

5. Why titles might get modified: you may see your thread getting an expanded title. No, your thread is not being hijacked, really, I swear! We would just open the thread to more of that genre of image. So "Steps in old Barcelona" might be Classical Architecture: Steps in Barcelona! That way we can get pictures from other great cities too.

Any other issues or ideas, share them.

Thanks for your attention!

Asher

 

[Pedro Mendes]

Forum structure

Nicolas' or Cem's lists are OK for me. I don't see any reason to have a specific forum for each brand.Cameras are just tools,anyway.
Cheers
Pedro

 

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Pedro,

The suggestions of Cem and Nicolas have been followed. However, for we're maintaining the independent Canon and Nikon fora. We have reduced our total fora by 2!

Thanks for the input,

Asher

 

[Kathy Rappaport]

Thanks, Asher

I know that it bothers you some when you are commended but I am going to do it anyway because often times no one notices or they are too busy.

But, most of the time, you are here for us. You read and comment, sometimes like the professor, but, you really care about all of the photographers here who pass through the forums.

Thank you, Asher.

On that happy note, One forum or five or twenty or two less, makes no matter. The people here matter and that you have shown us by example.

xoxoxo,
Kathy

 

[Josh Blackwood]

I'm new here, but thus far it seems like a welcome environment in which my opinion will be at least acknowledged, so I thought I'd chime in and second (third?) the suggestion of making liberal use of parent and child forums. Also some categories need renaming, and I've noticed a few spelling errors in the forum titles. Just an example of what I mean (notes in brackets, sub-lists mean child forums):

OPF and Other Site Related Topics [Looks pretty good as-is, but perhaps a touch of consolidation, perhaps rename this category to something like "General Discussion" and bring the Pro Business Forum down into it, and toss the OPF Look, Feel, and Vibe up into the top section?]

Camera Discussion [Right now it is Digital Camera Discussion, yet it is not limited to digital cameras...]

• Digital Cameras
  • Nikon DSLRs
  • Canon DSLRs
  • Other DSLRs [Olympus, Pentax, Sony, etc.]
  • Point & Shoot Cameras (Includes Cellphones)
• 35mm Film Cameras [Could have child forums for separate brands, but that may make navigation more confusing...]
• Large & Medium Format Cameras
• Lenses [Perhaps have child forums for Canon, Nikon, and Other/MF lenses.]
• Imaging Technology: Theory, Alternatives, Practice and Advances.

Digital Darkroom

• Image Processing and Workflow
• Retouching and Repairing
• Printing and Colour Management
• Digital Asset Management

Photography Discussion [A few too many forums here...this is the bulk of the index page it seems. Needs to be narrowed down and further categorized.]

• Sales, Exhibitions and Web Presence
• Riskit!
• People Photography
  • The Human Form As Art
  • Portrait in Natural Light Especially!
  • Wedding and Event
• Photography as Art [Some of these might fit better in Other Photography, but you get the idea I think.]
  • Still Photo: Approaching Fine Photography
  • The Amazing Stories Behind Pictures: Places, Events, Poetry, Works of Art
  • Wildlife
  • Close-up & Macro
  • Landscape [Landscape and Travel are considerably different by my understand, perhaps dived these?]
  • Music Photography
• Other Photography
  • Studio, Lighting Equipment and Technical [A bit redundant here, IMO, with portraiture covered both elsewhere and implied in "Studio". Plus there were several typos]
  • Fashion - Glamour - Product - Advertising
  • Sports
  • Photojournalism - Street - Documentary
  • Travel [See Landscape]
  • Pet's Corner: Yes, in a Professional Forum!
  • Architectural - Industrial
  • Medical-Forensic-Scientific-Legal-etc
• Film, Platinum, Polaroid & other Analog Media

The Gear

• Gear Support: Bags/ Cases/ Tripods/Transport
• Storage and Memory
• Software
  • Windows/PC
  • Mac

Uptown: Explore at your risk! [I see nothing that needs changing here, really.]

---

I'm not trying to tell you how to run your forum, but just thought I would share my thoughts. I do have some experience with this sort of thing; I administrate two forums myself, one quite a bit larger than this one (I think we're at 850,000+ posts now, but the general membership is a good deal less mature and prone to well-thought-out posts than here. :-D). I'm also a bit of an organization freak, though...

Regards!

~Josh

 

[Asher Kelman]

Thanks Josh for the effort yo have taken in wading through the various subject headings. That's a generous thing to so. I value your input and will review this. Send me a PM on your websites. I'd love to visit.

Kind wishes,

Asher

 

[nicolas claris]

Send me a PM on your websites. I'd love to visit.

here ;-)

 

[Josh Blackwood]

Thanks Josh for the effort yo have taken in wading through the various subject headings. That's a generous thing to so. I value your input and will review this. Send me a PM on your websites. I'd love to visit.

Kind wishes,

Asher

Sure thing! Will do.

here ;-)

Err, actually, Nicolas, that's just my infrequently-updated personal website. I think I have a link to one, but not the other, forum there.

Josh

 

[nicolas claris]

Sorry Josh
I misunderstood…
But I like things to be clear, it took me less than 10 sec in Google to find your fora…

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

(my 0.2 Euros) ...

Galleries: 0 Entries ...(delete)

Digicams and other: Has been moved ... (delete)

The Humand Form as Art: 9 Entries ... (incorporate as sticky or similiar in Photography as Art)

The Amazing Stories Behind Pictures: 8 Entries ... (delete or move to layback as sticky or similiar such as MISC)

Risk It: 17 Entries ... (move to layback...MISC)

Medical Forensic: 5 Entries ... (move to layback, or delete, or MISC)

Film, Platinum: 14 Entries ... (move to layback, or MISC)

Music Photography: 20 Entries ... (move to layback, or delete, or MISC)

... and so on ...

 

[Asher Kelman]

Georg,

A man had a new sign being painted over his fish market in London years back, "Fresh
Fish Sold Here!"

"Fresh?" a bystander asked, That's really defensive. I wouldn't have that! Looks like to have something to hide! So the fishmonger removed, Fresh".

"Here? Why here? You're store is here, we can see masses of fish on display so it's redundant to say your selling the fish "here". So the fishmonger removed that word.

The helpful bystander looked pleased and decided to give more help.

"Same with "Sold!" the bystander said, you aren't giving it away!" So that went too!

A woman seeing the lone word "Fish" clamped her fingers to her nose, "you don't really need that. We can smell it a mile away!"

Asher

 

[Josh Blackwood]

Sorry Josh
I misunderstood…
But I like things to be clear, it took me less than 10 sec in Google to find your fora…

No apology needed, honest mistake. I must admit, though; I'm curious how you found them so quickly!

Georg,

A man had a new sign being painted over his fish market in London years back, "Fresh
Fish Sold Here!"

"Fresh?" a bystander asked, That's really defensive. I wouldn't have that! Looks like to have something to hide! So the fishmonger removed, Fresh".

"Here? Why here? You're store is here, we can see masses of fish on display so it's redundant to say your selling the fish "here". So the fishmonger removed that word.

The helpful bystander looked pleased and decided to give more help.

"Same with "Sold!" the bystander said, you aren't giving it away!" So that went too!

A woman seeing the lone word "Fish" clamped her fingers to her nose, "you don't really need that. We can smell it a mile away!"

Asher

Well said, Asher. Well said indeed.

 

[Rhys Sage]

I still would like to keep some "structure", say:

1) Digicams
2) DSLR Canon
3) DSLR Nikon
4/ DSLR others
5) Lenses
6) MF & LF
7) Rangefinders

I like this idea but think it might be best to lump all the DLSRs together. They all do roughly the same thing in similar ways. There are a few bells and whistles that are different or unique but they all take darned good photos. If I were to split then how about dSLR crop and dSLR Full Frame?

 

[nicolas claris]

I'm curious how you found them so quickly!

Google "Josh Blackwood" forum
forum because you said you were involved in fora

+ the fact you mention your "Photographic Interests" for knives in your public profile…