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  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink.

Tom dinning

Registrant*
At present, Australia is facing a significant loss in its viability.
We are running out of water.
It’s not just localised, it’s widespread through every state, region, city and town.
Rain is scarce, temperatures high, rivers are drying up or have already done so, aquifers are dropping.
With this, crops are failing, cattle dying, wildlife becoming endangered, drinking water is even hard to get in some areas.
This is the worst it’s been on record.
There are days when it feels we are on fire and nothing with which to put it out.

2749
 

Andy brown

Active member
Yep, I’m driving regularly in the rural areas just out of Canberra. Absolute dust bowl. We get occasional ‘drought rain’ as I call it. Usually 1 or 2 mils which evaporates in the cruel winds before your eyes. Fires have started here as well yesterday, dry lighting strikes.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
The reports we get are mostly localised.
There's a tendency for reporting to be under-estimated more than over-estimated or exaggerated.
It's only when someone sees it all at once over a long time that they can see the picture more clearly.
Researchers of all sorts are seeing the same picture. Unfortunately, they don't have the political punch to wake up those in power.
There are always several battlefronts: the political, the economic, the people directly affected, and those that can shelter themselves from the heat.
Its noted that those directly affected such as those in the agriculture industries and those who live in the shadows of the 'Great Parched Land' are the ones the general public are interested in and are dealt with as human interest stories in the media.
The general public has sympathy and empathy but feels helpless in the face of such a huge problem so they go back to their swimming pools and warm baths and well-watered lawns and complain about how hot it is.
The politicians always make their run too late or too little or blame each other.
The soothsayers blame the homosexuals, the prayerful pray and the ignorant just ignore it all.

Now its easy to see on a daily basis.

This is the sort of information that is broadcast daily and has been doing so since July, well before the official fire season should have started. (Usually October to March).

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2019/nov/21/south-australia-fires-nsw-bushfires-victoria-vic-qld-queensland-sa-emergency-warning-code-red-weather-thunderstorm-dust-asthma-live-latest-updates

As an interesting sideline, we have this sort of banter sprayed about.


https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/fiery-reaction-after-israel-folau-links-australian-bushfires-to-same-sex-marriage/news-story/35d07139e6ba4b69fae67a3388071a97
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Israel has excess water and exports it to its neighbors!

  • Sewage water is recycled for crops.
  • Drip irrigation saves 3/4 of the needs
  • Desalinization is unlimited
  • Strict management protects fresh water from sewage and wasted water
Siegal, an author on the Israeli Technology gives lectures all over.

“What they want to learn, explains Siegel, is how a country that is 60 percent desert and whose population increased tenfold since 1948 not only has enough water for itself, but in fact has a surplus and even exports water to its neighbors. In the 1930s British economists predicted that all of Palestine — including today’s Gaza, Israel and the West Bank, had enough water to sustain 2 million people. Today, the area is home to more than 12 million people, a feat that Siegel attributes in large part to Israel’s first-class water planning and management.”

Asher
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
This probably doesn’t have much to do with the problem but I thought it was worth noting, since you raised it, Ash.

Australia is approximately 7,741,220 sq km, while Israel is approximately 20,770 sq km. Meanwhile, the population of Australia is ~23.2 million people (14.9 million fewer people live in Israel).

This probably doesn’t travel much to do with it either

According to the Bureau of Meteorology (BOM), 80% of the land receives less than 600 mm (24 in) of rainfall annually and 50% has even less than 300 mm (12 in). As a whole, Australia has a very low annual average rainfall of 419 mm (16 in).

Average rainfall in Israel.
In the extreme south, rainfall averages less than 100 mm annually; in the north, average annual rainfall is about 1,100 mm.

you’re right though.
we don’t manage our water all that well.

Darwin gets an average of about 2500 mm but it’s all in 3 months. The rest of the time we get nothing. And I mean nothing!

there are some places that don’t get rain for 10:years. Then it floods.

we’re a bunch of heathens here. We just have to rely on nature and a few buckets.
Israel has a god to help them along.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
It sounds like Australia needs to make major investments in desalinization plants
it’s does, Peter, but the problem is, as they say, “complicated”, as you can imagine.
Many of our dense population areas already rely on desalination. The advantage they have is they are close to sea water.
Although some areas of agriculture are currently using ‘blended’ water, the areas under agriculture are too vast for current desalination technology to supply.
storage and management is controlled by the government departments. The problem here is both the water and the public servants are unreliable.
The biggest users of desalinated and recycled water is urban areas. They keep growing.
Industry needs water.
Transport needs water.
I need it to water down my whiskey.
I can’t flush the toilet without it.

in an effort to restrict my usage I no longer drink whiskey, I shit in the garden, have stopped showering, and keep my fingers crossed for rain. I know it’s not hi-tech but it’s about all I can do under the circumstances. Australia is just in the wrong place.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I doubt that most of Australia away from the coasts needs much water. Australia only has double the population of Israel and no need to rely on exports of water consuming oranges and tomatoes as Israel does.

It’s a matter of economic planning. Recycle water. You mine iron and coal so you can make steel. So you can build the distribution systems, reservoirs and pumps and then sell these to the world instead of buying from China!

Australia should only be using drip feeding of crops and likely as not already uses Israeli technology in areas. Just 6 additional desalinization plants would allow diversion of existing and coastal resources to agriculture and industry.

Australia always responds and “man’s up” for a big war. But the leaders have to convince everyone that this HAS to be a war to make Australia a water power like Israel. Actually the challenges are very similar, just tgecAussies gave different beer, say “Mate” and have to duck for boomerangs and angry Roos!

Asher
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
“I doubt that most of Australia away from the coasts needs much water.”

You don’t know much about Australia, do you, Ash?

”Australia always responds and “man’s up” for a big war. But the leaders have to convince everyone that this HAS to be a war to make Australia a water power like Israel. Actually the challenges are very similar, just tgecAussies gave different beer, say “Mate” and have to duck for boomerangs and angry Roos!”

Really? Such generalisations are almost insulting, and you know how hard it is to offend me.

And just quietly between you and me - Fuck Israel! The one thing they can teach us is how NOT to get on with their neighbours.

This conversation reminds me of an article I wrote about illness.
Have you ever noticed when you mention you’re sick everyone has a cure, almost as if you don’t know what a doctor is let alone there being a chance you have already visited one. And everyone else’s doctor ‘The Best’ and the one you chose opulent be trusted with a lip balm stick.

I wasn’t looking for a cure for our water problem, I was simply informing you of the situation at a glance.
We have perfectly adequate water experts here and a pretty good government. Sure, we haven’t got it right yet. We’re still working on it. I’m sorry to say this but if I were looking for answers I wouldnt be asking an oncologist from Beverly Hills for advice. I’m not even sure I’d ask said doctor advice on anything. I haven’t seen his credentials.
 

James Lemon

Active member
I doubt that most of Australia away from the coasts needs much water. Australia only has double the population of Israel and no need to rely on exports of water consuming oranges and tomatoes as Israel does.

It’s a matter of economic planning. Recycle water. You mine iron and coal so you can make steel. So you can build the distribution systems, reservoirs and pumps and then sell these to the world instead of buying from China!

Australia should only be using drip feeding of crops and likely as not already uses Israeli technology in areas. Just 6 additional desalinization plants would allow diversion of existing and coastal resources to agriculture and industry.

Australia always responds and “man’s up” for a big war. But the leaders have to convince everyone that this HAS to be a war to make Australia a water power like Israel. Actually the challenges are very similar, just tgecAussies gave different beer, say “Mate” and have to duck for boomerangs and angry Roos!

Asher
Asher

You appear to be well informed on these subjects.

James
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
“I doubt that most of Australia away from the coasts needs much water.”

You don’t know much about Australia, do you, Ash?
Then explain where the water needs are. Doubtless, only a small fraction of the continent needs to be watered!


This conversation reminds me of an article I wrote about illness.
Have you ever noticed when you mention you’re sick everyone has a cure, almost as if you don’t know what a doctor is let alone there being a chance you have already visited one. And everyone else’s doctor ‘The Best’ and the one you chose opulent be trusted with a lip balm stick.
res ipsa loquitur!


I’m sorry to say this but if I were looking for answers I wouldnt be asking an oncologist from Beverly Hills for advice. I’m not even sure I’d ask said doctor advice on anything. I haven’t seen his credentials.
Of course! Who would imagine otherwise?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
And just quietly between you and me - Fuck Israel! The one thing they can teach us is how NOT to get on with their neighbors.
Well it comes out at last, “Fuck Israel!”

That’s the tiny nation in a land they have inhabited continuously for 5,000 years, not one taken from unrelated aboriginal people with eons-long rights to the land, where you visit a cave or look at a rock and you will find imprints of Native culture you displaced, marginalized, humiliate, dispossessed and crushed!

Still, that “Fuck Israel!” invective is not rare from cultures that are dependent on religious mythologies and magic, (even though you would be the first to dismiss the details).

Still it leaves you as a typical Western Cultured educated man, seeped in anti-Zionist tropes, the heritage of millennia of normal church teachings morphed today to have “social acceptability”! Not that Muslims, or “towel heads”, as you have called them), the would get any more respect.

A pity Napoleon didn’t get to Australia to bring you the concepts of the Universal Rights of man: the hard won fruits of the Citizens and tragic assembly orators of the French Revolution.

Thank goodness at least the Catholic Church has realized what is still wrong in Western Christ-believing cultures and published the amazingly revolutionary encyclicals Pacem in Terres, Nostre Aetate by the Popes, John and Paul, decades ago and then another equally enlightened missive by the current Pope, referring to Jews as our “elder brothers”.

BTW, Israel is one of the important sources for medical care for Arab civilians from the Syrian civil war. Israel supplies water, electricity, oil and gas to Jordan, Egypt and the Palestinians.

Israel helps its neighbors.

Australians don’t have such a noble record for treatment of its own aboriginal population! So why the criticism of Israel, if not for the standard repackaging of anti Jewish tropes in the allegedly more “respectable” clothing of “anti Zionism”!

Also tell about your implied superior values to the “boat people” refugees, you put on other peoples Islands!


....and BTW, you use a lot of Israeli technologies:

  • Intel chips in your computer.
  • Mapping programs in cars and phones.
  • Many antibiotics and drugs including neuropsychiatric medicines.
  • Water desalinization rechnology
  • Drip feeding crops on massive scale
  • Genetic plant variants and hybrids of crops that grow in arid soils
  • Medical equipment
  • The heads up display for your fighter jets
  • Self-driving truck controls
  • Much of intelligence software Australia uses
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
”Australia always responds and “man’s up” for a big war. But the leaders have to convince everyone that this HAS to be a war to make Australia a water power like Israel. Actually the challenges are very similar, just tgecAussies gave different beer, say “Mate” and have to duck for boomerangs and angry Roos!”
Really? Such generalisations are almost insulting, and you know how hard it is to offend me.
However, it’s reasonable. While we, outside of Australia only know generalization and not the same details you do, what we know is that the people are modern, educated, very creative and share a lot of culture with us. Also when we needed brotherhood and support they generously gave it in every human sphere on each occasion asked. So to THAT extent, we are indeed experts via generalizations on what massive degrees, an with self-sacrifice, Australians can deliver when asked.

You have no qualifications or basis to dispute that external opinion.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
We have perfectly adequate water experts here and a pretty good government. Sure, we haven’t got it right yet. We’re still working on it.
So you are “working it out? Really?

So how’s that working out for you right now with the water shortages, fires and parched lands?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
BTW, Tom, although about 67% of Australians might agree with your “Fuck Israel!” outburst, it was always Australians in the forefront of the establishment of the State of Israel and its subsequent solid and reliable international support!

Likewise, the Australian efforts in both world wars are regularly respected and memorialized in Israel.

For more information look here.

Your “Fuck Israel” comment can be explained both by your own nature and your culture. But the truth is that little Israel does have the water-superpower experience, skills and resources to help Australians solve this worsening existential threat.

But of course, as you point out, I am merely a “Beverly Hills, [Radiation] Oncologist” and you are one far smarter fellow amongst the intelligencia of Darwin, Australia. So what value could my information have on anything?

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I thought that would wake you.
It sure did!


I am am correct on my external views views of your country. The “generalizations” are practical and true enough to work well.
  1. You need to apologize for your antisemetic-albeit-“anti-Israel-packaged” outburst!
  2. Thank goodness Australia and Israel have great diplomats! You’d fu🎬k it up in a Hollywood second!
  3. Here is the Australian official comment on Israel:
“Australia has a warm and close relationship with Israel, which is supported strongly by Australia’s active Jewish community. The relationship has a strong historical dimension, dating back to the First World War when Australian forces fought in the Sinai-Palestine campaign alongside their Allied counterparts against the Ottomans, including the iconic charge of the Australian Light Horse’s during the Battle of Beersheba. Australia was the first country to vote in favour of the 1947 UN partition resolution, which ultimately led to the creation of Israel as a nation state. Australia established diplomatic relations with Israel in 1949 and in the same year presided over the vote admitting Israel to the United Nations.

Australia is committed to a two-state solution in which Israel and a future Palestinian state co‑exist, in peace and security, within internationally recognised borders. Consistent with this longstanding policy, in December 2018, Australia recognised West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, being the seat of the Knesset and many of the institutions of the Israeli government. Australia looks forward to moving its Embassy to West Jerusalem when practical, in support of, and after the final status determination of, a two state solution.

Australia is a strongly opposed to unfair targeting of Israel in the United Nations and other multilateral institutions. However, we make clear our concerns about Israeli actions that undermine the prospects of a two-state solution and continue to urge Israel and other actors to respect international law.

Australia continues to broaden bilateral cooperation with Israel. In recent years, there has been significantly increased engagement across a range of sectors, including innovation, security and defence.” Read more here!

Asher
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
“Pretty good government”!!!!
You’ve been away too much Tom.
Our government is absolutely fcked.
Absolutely fcked. They’re a pile of sh!t.
No other way to slice it.
Don’t be like that, Andy. They do their best, as tiresomely inadequate as it might seem.
I certainly wouldn’t try running the place. Have you seen and heard from the population lately? Everyone has an opinion, everyone knows better, everyone has a solution, everyone blames someone else.
In spite of that, we have been listed by UN as being the third most democratic society o;the planet.
For interest sake, US rates about 35.
I kinda like the way things go here. Feed for the critics and cartoonists. Makes for interesting reading. It’s like when Lillie was bowling. You never knew what was coming and how fast and it sure made cricket, the dullest sport on the planet, into a viewers delight.
Stay with it. I’d prefer to be in goal,here than anywhere.
 

James Lemon

Active member
I

It’s a matter of economic planning. Recycle water. You mine iron and coal so you can make steel. So you can build the distribution systems, reservoirs and pumps and then sell these to the world instead of buying from China!


Asher
Yes sound economic policies could benefit the planet on many different levels. As it stands we seem to have the cart before the horse.

James
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Yes sound economic policies could benefit the planet on many different levels. As it stands we seem to have the cart before the horse.

James
Exactly, James,

If we are smart enough to fly in the sky and use AI to make Obama give a “deep fake” speech written by anyone and it looks real, we can deal with the suffering of water shortages in the heating planet!

But to do that, we have to focus on common goals.

1. Respect and treasure each other’s children as our own!

2. Feed and nurture each other

3. Don’t perpetuate mythology except for cultural identity and fun, but not for xenophobia.

4. Welcome science, rational thinking, facts and truth

5. Recognize that man is good and generous! Let’s exploit that! We need neither holy books nor flags to be kind. It’s built in!

6. We photographers can hold a lantern to the planet and ourselves.

.......Each image, (of peoples and nature you discover), raises slightly awareness of our riches to defend!

........and even school children talk about it in awe and appreciation!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Actually, Australia provides a perfect testbed for the world to tackle a major result of global warming.

There are only 28 million people there but rich in resources. So make it a global task with technology from everywhere.

If we can develop the organization to harness experience knowledge and will no matter the source, we can then go on to tackle the next hardest problem, say making coastal communities sustainable

.... as does Watever in Bangladesh and other places!
 

Andy brown

Active member
Don’t be like that, Andy. They do their best, as tiresomely inadequate as it might seem.
I certainly wouldn’t try running the place. Have you seen and heard from the population lately? Everyone has an opinion, everyone knows better, everyone has a solution, everyone blames someone else.
In spite of that, we have been listed by UN as being the third most democratic society o;the planet.
For interest sake, US rates about 35.
I kinda like the way things go here. Feed for the critics and cartoonists. Makes for interesting reading. It’s like when Lillie was bowling. You never knew what was coming and how fast and it sure made cricket, the dullest sport on the planet, into a viewers delight.
Stay with it. I’d prefer to be in goal,here than anywhere.
Tom, they do not do their best.
They do their greediest. It ain’t the same thing.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Tom, they do not do their best.
They do their greediest. It ain’t the same thing.
I can’t afford to dislike them all. My grand son is runni ng for state election. I wouldn’t vote for him but his intentions are good. He’s not greedy, just ambitious. He’d like to make a difference. Seems reasonable to me.

Now if you want greed, go have a chat to any bank, developer or CFMMEU executive.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I am not really sure I understand why this is "banter". Are you in favour of violence over women?
Jerome, here I strangely find myself supporting Tom!

I know he is a strong advocate for respecting woman’s rights over their own body.

Of that I have no doubt at all.

However in the interview, it’s implied that firefighters take out their wrath against the harsh fires by coming home and beating up or otherwise assaulting women.

It could be a phenomenon unique to Australian firefighters. However, enquiring here in the USA, there is no common knowledge or even a hint of that behavior by firemen returning from the fire-line, exhausted out of sorts so they beat, assault or rape the nearest woman!

That’s the “banter” that I find offensive. There was no proof offered. Now it could be that in parts of Australia they know that say 10 exhausted frustrated angry men in some part of fire ridden Australia all violated women. If so, then we want to hear about it, learn to prevent it and provide the tools to protect the women in the future.

My impression, however was that what seemed like a good and righteous public service talk to protect vulnerable women became a paranoiac hate-fest against men.

If there is more background to justify their extreme rhetoric, then I stand corrected, but otherwise, Tom Dinning in this case, called it correctly.

I do not support folk in an argument without considerable thought. But to protect women, we certainly don’t have to leave rational argument, as the women in the interview did and simply demonize a large cohort of men without any proof provided.

If I missed a section where that was provided, please ignore this post and accept my apologies!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Jerome, here I strangely find myself supporting Tom!

I know he is a strong advocate for respecting woman’s rights over their own body.
That was my objective. I remembered old discussions with Tom and I knew his opinions about women's rights. Here, he piqued you about Israel. Now he knows how it feels when it happens to him. The opportunity was simply too tempting for me to pass.

Sorry, Tom. I knew you were not in favour of violence against women.
 
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