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What does street photography mean to you?

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
I have read a post by Paul Abbot in another thread which I thought could lead to a nice debate. Since I don't want to pollute that thread, I am starting this one here. Paul wrote:
....
I think it looks very clean as a piece of 'street photography'. I would 'dirty' it up with some film grain, deepen the shadows and brighten the highlights. You might lose some detail in the shadows that way but nothing a little selective 'dodging' won't sort out...

I was kind of taken aback by Paul's reaction, why would anyone want to 'dirty up' a perfectly good image just because it is street photography? And the immediate question behind it, what is street photography to start with?

To be fair to Paul, I think I understand why he made those within the context of that thread and I welcome his comments. The question I have in general is then: are we so much brainwashed with the B&W film images from the 20th century that we can see the beauty of a street picture only if it looks like it was taken on film? I am very curious how you folks see this.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
It could simply be that "street photography" is understood as a genre characterized by these particular aesthetics.

And probably this book, aptly titled "Street photography now" could make an interesting reading for someone interested about present day photographs taken in the streets.

9780500289075_23988.jpg
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Jerome,

It could simply be that "street photography" is understood as a genre characterized by these particular aesthetics.
Indeed.

Or maybe it means photography taken on a generally opportunistic basis "out and about".

Or the same but only in an urban context (not along a country road, or an interstate highway).

Or perhaps it is a studio operated by James and Hillary Street (who like an all-lower-case presentation of the name, as for my establishments images dak, editions dak, and laboratories dak).

Or maybe it is photographs of paving.

And, as before on a parallel topic, I ask, "If we knew what 'street photography' was, what would we do with that knowledge?"

Best regards,

Doug
 

Paul Abbott

New member
Also, don't forget to use the customary tilt to a 'street' image, a'la Garry Winogrand. :)
I personally am 'brainwashed' to a certain extent by film-based 'street' photography, and in some cases the use of fast film to catch the action flying about on the streets. It's gritty and beautiful...it beats an HDR'd photograph, yuck. :)







Blackfriar's Bridge, London - Paul Abbott
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
I'm wondering which end of the stick people hold when they photograph.
Do you think 'street' photography when you go into the street (whatever that means to you) and your perceptions and goals are governed by that or just shoot for the concept and let others decide the genre?
I'm thinking about a comment here that suggests the use of B&W or heavy grain and strong contrast because the photo is of a particular (arbitrary) genre and seemingly not for the purpose of developing a concept in the photo.
It seems that in some cases the term 'street' generates the requirement for a specific look, just as HDR does, or soft focus portraits or that thing teenagers do with their iPhones.
That seems to be like grabbing a pointy stick at the sharp end.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
One can't help be comparing anything called street photography with work of famous photographers. To me, however, great street photography is not copying what's been done. Rather it means the person is "drinking in" what's thrilling to them: transient angles, alignments, postures and expressions and the like. Then, of all that, a few will survive and that's then, "street photography". So it should, IMHO, be connected with the "presence" of the photographer as much as the the nature of the place being photographed. The more it's of the former, the better the photography is likely to be.

B&W, BTW, allows one to shed the unnatural blaring sirens of color so one can see the humanity in the scene. Colors are to attention getting for no damn good reason. In general, to me at least, street photography is likely to be better in monochrome. It's not a rule, just my experience.

Asher
 

Paul Abbott

New member
B&W, BTW, allows one to shed the unnatural blaring sirens of color so one can see the humanity in the scene. Colors are to attention getting for no damn good reason. In general, to me at least, street photography is likely to be better in monochrome. It's not a rule, just my experience.

Asher


I totally agree! Also, the use of extreme contrast in an image can do the same and focus our attention on what is more important in the image...

Colour has always been a bit of a bane to me in photography, especially in street photography. I see the street and all it has to offer in colour every goddamn day of my life, and I want to see it in B&W! I watch B&W movies and I do still own a B&W TV, I would watch it if only the analog signal hadn't stopped working...:)
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Asher, Paul,

Regarding the matter of colour vs B&W, I couldn't disagree more. We see the world around us in colour, not in B&W. If colours would have been like blaring sirens, how would we ever be able to function normally? To me, colour is essential unless where it really distracts or it does not add any information to the photograph. Only then I consider B&W as an option. But this is my opinion, feel free to disagree. :)
 
To me, colour is essential unless where it really distracts or it does not add any information to the photograph. Only then I consider B&W as an option.

Hi Cem,

My sentiments exactly.

Why shoot a subject that has reality written all over it, and make an abstraction of it? There can be a good reason, if that abstraction delivers a stronger message, but then one would need to first define what that message is. What is it exactly that a street photographer tries to capture ...?

Well, there are different styles, and even a few that I like.

One example of a style I like might be the work of Magnum photographer Bruce Davidson. His style may be considered 'old-school' by some, but he is not one of the more predatory shooters, but more of a witness of things as they happen (of course he selects the moments and angles for capture). The same goes for Mary Ellen Mark who is looking for iconic moments (although they seem more posed), or Joel Meyerowitz who gets caught by gestures and movement.

Some clips from the "Everybody Street series":
Bruce Davidson
Mary Ellen Mark
Joel Meyerowitz

And of course, for a more international perspective, someone looking for geometry, surrealism:
Henri Cartier-Bresson

Now, compare that to this 'in your face' style:
Bruce Gilden

There is an occasionally interesting result, but it's very predatory IMO, hoping to startle someone into an interesting pose, and almost always unflattering for the victim. I wonder what would happen if he tried such an approach in a city like Amsterdam ... An uncle of mine driving his Porche along side the Amsterdam canals once startled a person on his bike, that person got off the bike, and threw the bike through the car's windshield and he then walked away. Now that's a photo-opportunity!

Cheers,
Bart
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
Joel Meyeorwitz,Helen Levit, Garry Winogrand, Raghubier Sinh,and Manuel Alvartez Bravo,have all shot in color.From the list above Joel Meyerowitz, and Raghbier Singh appear to be the only ones who have embraced the color medium. Personally I don't think street photography has any rules, it is a matter of preference, I prefer B/W.

Confidence is the feeling you have,just before you fully understand the situation.
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
I totally agree! Also, the use of extreme contrast in an image can do the same and focus our attention on what is more important in the image...

Colour has always been a bit of a bane to me in photography, especially in street photography. I see the street and all it has to offer in colour every goddamn day of my life, and I want to see it in B&W! I watch B&W movies and I do still own a B&W TV, I would watch it if only the analog signal hadn't stopped working...:)

I love Black and white movies !
i-zPzkZrz-L.jpg

i-n5SK94N-L.jpg

i-VRXSX42-L.jpg
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
B&W, BTW, allows one to shed the unnatural blaring sirens of color so one can see the humanity in the scene. Colors are to attention getting for no damn good reason. In general, to me at least, street photography is likely to be better in monochrome. It's not a rule, just my experience.

I totally agree! Also, the use of extreme contrast in an image can do the same and focus our attention on what is more important in the image...

Colour has always been a bit of a bane to me in photography, especially in street photography. I see the street and all it has to offer in colour every goddamn day of my life, and I want to see it in B&W! I watch B&W movies and I do still own a B&W TV, I would watch it if only the analog signal hadn't stopped working...:)

Asher, Paul,

Regarding the matter of colour vs B&W, I couldn't disagree more. We see the world around us in colour, not in B&W. If colours would have been like blaring sirens, how would we ever be able to function normally? To me, colour is essential unless where it really distracts or it does not add any information to the photograph. Only then I consider B&W as an option. But this is my opinion, feel free to disagree. :)



"colour is essential unless where it really distracts
or it does not add any information to the photograph"




Cem,

This is exactly what we are dealing with! In the natural state, colors generally work harmoniously. We're uplifted by what we see. Well we humans have learned to exploit color dyes and so each person venturing out on to the street shouts their presence in their own eye-catching color of that day. Unlike nature, there's no "blending in" or balance with nature. Add to that stores and signage, we have a cacophony of competing distractions.

The architecture of our great cites, by contrast, were mostly planned with form dominating and stone, bricks and wood (and now glass too) as the final expression. The colors and tonalities were designed for harmony, elegance, or to be distinguished, but still colors were hardly ever haphazard and to contrary purpose. The streets with paving or cobblestones supplied pleasant textures with natural colors.

All this shaping and textural signature becomes more "present" in B&W. As in this form, we can optimize allocation of hues to bring out the shapes, structure, textures and even "personalities" of streets, tunnels and doorways. People always look great in B&W, as it's kind and does not reveal, so readily, skin imperfections. A smile in B&W or the hand of a child is at least as magical!

Now I did say that it's no rule to use B&W: My experience with the best photographic work is with B&W. Could be that, that if a picture doesn't work in color, perhaps it really should be in monochrome and vice vace. Certainly one cannot always achieve success in B&W and color might indeed rescue the scene with beautifully added emotion and drama. But here it's use with sensibility for it's inherent perceptual riches. That's the difference!

BTW, when the lights are dim, its also more monochromatic and romantic too. We get closer to each other and are more intimate. We listen to each other more. Perhaps our love for monochrome is a manifestation of those twilight hours.

So I don't argue with anyone's use of color to deliver their own idea of what's impressive, thrilling or wonderful in some way. That would be a foolish and destructive way of greeting original work. It has to be as each one of us feels most passionate about. Whether or not it's how we'd show that scene is irrelevant. The last thing we'd want is to try and have some approved or fused style here!

I just restate that if one is going to go a photography show and they'll exhibit street photography, B&W pictures will almost always be a major component. That's my experience. This is not because the folk were arrogant. They just discovered how well the medium removes the destructions we are faced with and brings us a close kind of view to what's really there, stripped of the extra signaling that color carries.

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi all,

Maybe a useful addition for consideration:
Garry Winogrand at SFMOMA

BTW, the fact that these are B&W images is probably more a testament of the era than a conscientious choice.

Cheers,
Bart

Bart,

I'm in awe of these trailblazers and my opinion on the medium they chose is of no bearing. Doubtless, if he thought to work in color, the picture, although having different values, would still draw me to visit. I will try to get up to the exhibition in San Francisco.

Thanks again for pointing out this show. How much does his work influence you if at all/

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
Hi Cem,

My sentiments exactly.

Why shoot a subject that has reality written all over it, and make an abstraction of it? There can be a good reason, if that abstraction delivers a stronger message, but then one would need to first define what that message is. What is it exactly that a street photographer tries to capture ...?

Well, there are different styles, and even a few that I like.

One example of a style I like might be the work of Magnum photographer Bruce Davidson. His style may be considered 'old-school' by some, but he is not one of the more predatory shooters, but more of a witness of things as they happen (of course he selects the moments and angles for capture). The same goes for Mary Ellen Mark who is looking for iconic moments (although they seem more posed), or Joel Meyerowitz who gets caught by gestures and movement.

Some clips from the "Everybody Street series":
Bruce Davidson
Mary Ellen Mark
Joel Meyerowitz

And of course, for a more international perspective, someone looking for geometry, surrealism:
Henri Cartier-Bresson

Now, compare that to this 'in your face' style:
Bruce Gilden

There is an occasionally interesting result, but it's very predatory IMO, hoping to startle someone into an interesting pose, and almost always unflattering for the victim. I wonder what would happen if he tried such an approach in a city like Amsterdam ... An uncle of mine driving his Porche along side the Amsterdam canals once startled a person on his bike, that person got off the bike, and threw the bike through the car's windshield and he then walked away. Now that's a photo-opportunity!

Cheers,
Bart

Another famous photographer Diane Arbus introduced the idea of using flash in daylight on the streets.A movie in 2006 called Fur starring Nicole Kidman depicted an imaginary portrait of her.
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
As far as I am concerned, ' street photography ' should start with a definition of ' street '.

Often, things get confused without proper and specific definition/s. As an example..what would be considered ' street ' around here? Cobblestones...

p1798130650-5.jpg

I consider this to be one form of ' street photography '.
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
What a coincidence indeed, Michael!!

BTW, ' Street ' has no meaning whatsoever in Arabic!! :)

Best.

p.s. I am told the word ' street ' has its origins in Latin. Since I do not know Latin nor German, I can only hazard a guess to suggest I prefer the German all-inclusive meaning as suggested by Michael above.
 

Paul Abbott

New member
One distinction I can make is that black-and-white photography has an erotic edge for me, in a broad sense. Colour doesn’t have that same erotic charge. It doesn’t have so much to do with what is being photographed; in any black-and-white image there is some variety of eroticism. If I am out wandering and I see photographs hung on the walls of a restaurant, say, if they are black and white, I get a rush! It’s really a visceral response. I haven’t yet seen a colour photograph that has given me shivers. That is the difference between the two for me...

Monochrome has stronger elements of abstraction or symbolism. This is perhaps an element of taking you to another place. Black and white has that physical effect on me, it's a total departure from what we always see day to day...
 
The term 'street' in german does not only cover the street you walk and drive on.

Hi Michael,

It's obviously similar in Dutch (which I'd call an Anglo-Germanic language), so we call the broader concept "straat" instead of the German "Straße" or the English "street", and not weg (=road).

I think it has a Latin origin in the more narrow concept of "strātum", as in stratification, layering (vertically), and parallel roads (horizontally).

It's also obvious that Fahim's native language, from it's origin, doesn't recognize such a concept, but possibly has many ways to use/describe "sand" or a "trail".

Cheers,
Bart
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
77th_DCP_2057-01-S800.jpg


Douglas A. Kerr: Street photography, Dallas, Texas, 2001

By this time in my life, I had pretty much given this sort of thing up!

This is the local working press, shooting the 77th Army Band (from Fort Sill, Oklahoma) on their visit to Dallas to participate in a Veterans' Day Celebration.

77th_DCP_2010-01-S800.jpg


Douglas A. Kerr: Carla and Larry, Dallas, Texas, 2001

Here we see Staff Sergeant Lawrence Henry, principal trombone of the 77th, and his proud mother, noted Cherokee author Carla Red Fox.

This is perhaps street photography. No, wait, this was in a Plaza. Oh, dear! This is so complicated. But then in Bulgarian . . .

Maybe if I were to map it to B&W and throw in some bogus grain . . . Does anyone here know how to start Photoshop? Does the crank turn counterclockwise?

Best regards,

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
77th_DCP_2057-01-S800.jpg


Douglas A. Kerr: Street photography, Dallas, Texas, 2001

By this time in my life, I had pretty much given this sort of thing up!

This is the local working press, shooting the 77th Army Band (from Fort Sill, Oklahoma) on their visit to Dallas to participate in a Veterans' Day Celebration.

77th_DCP_2010-01-S800.jpg


Douglas A. Kerr: Carla and Larry, Dallas, Texas, 2001

Here we see Staff Sergeant Lawrence Henry, principal trombone of the 77th, and his proud mother, noted Cherokee author Carla Red Fox.

This is perhaps street photography. No, wait, this was in a Plaza. Oh, dear! This is so complicated. But then in Bulgarian . . .

Maybe if I were to map it to B&W and throw in some bogus grain . . . Does anyone here know how to start Photoshop? Does the crank turn counterclockwise?

Best regards,

Doug
Nothing to do with grain, composition or ways of catching the photons, LOL!

This picture is obviously joined by consent and social bonds to you and your camera. Most recognized street photography is much more about what's there that we come across than happy personal mementos. If one of your friends is in the shot, chances are it's personal and not "street" photography.

Now if someone came across you taking this picture and caught that action then, likely as not, it would indeed be street photography. Photoshop not required! For that reason, your first photo of the fellow on the ground works! :)

Asher
 

Bob Rogers

New member
Sometimes I have a hard time with categories on a conceptual level. The original post in this thread reminds me of a discussion I see from time to time about fiddle.

The conversation always goes something like this (between persons one and two, p1 & p2).

p1: Have you heard so-and-so's playing.
p2: Oh, I don't care for so-and-so; his playing is too clean.

By way of variation, sometimes p2 thinks the playing is too in-tune. To them, what most fiddlers and violinists consider good technique is at odds with the style. I've told some of my bagpipe friends about this and they don't believe it's true that some people prefer out-of-tune or technically sub-par playing.

But whatever. We all have our own tastes and if you like something then you do :)
 
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