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LED Lights

Mark Hampton

New member
Hi Hi

I am making some pictures of Bands down at my Local - they have an LED light set up - I have a 5D mark2 - and never shot under this type of light - any tips?

I cant find much info on the interweb.

I normaly Shoot in RAW - ISO will be High - any thoughts...

cheers
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Hi

I am making some pictures of Bands down at my Local - they have an LED light set up - I have a 5D mark2 - and never shot under this type of light - any tips?

I cant find much info on the interweb.

I normaly Shoot in RAW - ISO will be High - any thoughts...

cheers

Mark,

I have no idea of the color temp of the LED lights being used. I have seen daylight matched lights but who knows what they have! I suggest you just shoot and use a grey card as a reference. It's critical to know color temp if you are going to add strobe light to supplement the LED lights, for example using a wide aperture and high ISO and slow shutter speed. However, if you shoot at f5.6 and and 1/160 sec, then the incident environmental is negligible and one can just use flash.

Chances are they might not like flash unless they are having a fashionista event then it's part of the atmospherics!

I'd think that 1/1600 to 1/6400 at f2.8 is what you should start at and see what you get.

On the 5DII the color is surprisingly pleasant if the skin is underexposed at high ISO.

Asher
 
Hi Hi

I am making some pictures of Bands down at my Local - they have an LED light set up - I have a 5D mark2 - and never shot under this type of light - any tips?

I cant find much info on the interweb.

I normaly Shoot in RAW - ISO will be High - any thoughts...

Hi Mark,

LED lighting usually has a less than ideal spectral output (with gaps and peaks if RGB colored ones are used). So, depending on how that plays together with the sensor's Color Filter Array, you may experience some colors being a bit wrong, despite a color balance adjustment in postprocessing (click on a spectrally neutral gray subject, e.g. WhiBal).

If you want to minimize noise, make sure that a gray subject records roughly equal amounts of signal in all three R/G/B channels of the Raw, and if possible use filters (on the lights or on the lens) to achieve that. Of course filters will reduce the amount of light, so perhaps you need to conpromise if handheld shutterspeeds drop too much.

Also remember that at high (say 800 or higher) ISO's it's better to underexpose by 1 or 2 stops than to push the ISO by that same amount. It will usually give lower noise, without loss of dynamic range (which is already compromised at higher ISOs), and will allow to retain highlight detail and color better. You correct the relative underexposure in postprocessing. Again, it works best if the light quality is balanced to the sensor response.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Mike Shimwell

New member
Hi Mark,

LED lighting usually has a less than ideal spectral output (with gaps and peaks if RGB colored ones are used). So, depending on how that plays together with the sensor's Color Filter Array, you may experience some colors being a bit wrong, despite a color balance adjustment in postprocessing (click on a spectrally neutral gray subject, e.g. WhiBal).

If you want to minimize noise, make sure that a gray subject records roughly equal amounts of signal in all three R/G/B channels of the Raw, and if possible use filters (on the lights or on the lens) to achieve that. Of course filters will reduce the amount of light, so perhaps you need to conpromise if handheld shutterspeeds drop too much.

Also remember that at high (say 800 or higher) ISO's it's better to underexpose by 1 or 2 stops than to push the ISO by that same amount. It will usually give lower noise, without loss of dynamic range (which is already compromised at higher ISOs), and will allow to retain highlight detail and color better. You correct the relative underexposure in postprocessing. Again, it works best if the light quality is balanced to the sensor response.

Cheers,
Bart

As BArt said, but the band may not be too concerned with colour accuracy anyway - the impact of the mage is often more important.

Mike
 

Mark Hampton

New member
Asher / Bart and Mike

thaks for the input - it should be intresting to c how digital handles this - will pop on a couple if I can on friday...

the will of course be flat !!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Asher / Bart and Mike

thaks for the input - it should be intresting to c how digital handles this - will pop on a couple if I can on friday...

the will of course be flat !!
Mark,

I don't think there's anything specially difficult except pushing the film requires different development, with digital just turn the dial to get ISO 3200, for example and use at least as wide as f 2.8 and underexpose as Bart suggest and you will do just fine. In most venues I have photographed, there are different color gels on lights so that there's a lot of extraneous unpredictable color that's part of the atmospherics. Neutralizing that totally not a good idea.

The main barriers to photography in a club are access, shooting position and stage setup.

You have to find a position where the lead singer/soloists face is visible sufficiently despite the microphone and stands . The large distances between musicians spread out on across a wide stage can make framing tough. Sometimes and oblique angle will allow the percussion to be placed, albeit somewhat OOF, to one side of the lead musician.

So t's composition, not the specifics of the camera, that's the biggest challenge.

Asher
 

Mark Hampton

New member
|Bloody gig got cancelled by the immigration authorities - their visas had run out !!
But you got to love the rock and roll of it !
 

Mark Hampton

New member
Mark,

I don't think there's anything specially difficult except pushing the film requires different development, with digital just turn the dial to get ISO 3200, for example and use at least as wide as f 2.8 and underexpose as Bart suggest and you will do just fine. In most venues I have photographed, there are different color gels on lights so that there's a lot of extraneous unpredictable color that's part of the atmospherics. Neutralizing that totally not a good idea.

The main barriers to photography in a club are access, shooting position and stage setup.

You have to find a position where the lead singer/soloists face is visible sufficiently despite the microphone and stands . The large distances between musicians spread out on across a wide stage can make framing tough. Sometimes and oblique angle will allow the percussion to be placed, albeit somewhat OOF, to one side of the lead musician.

So t's composition, not the specifics of the camera, that's the biggest challenge.

Asher

went last night and made some pictures - my lens was not fast enought - i only have f4 24/105 L @ 1/200s - 1/250s ended up shooting 6400 under exposed by 3 stops I think - images are a horror story - golf ball / no deatail - need to re-think this madness !!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
went last night and made some pictures - my lens was not fast enought - i only have f4 24/105 L @ 1/200s - 1/250s ended up shooting 6400 under exposed by 3 stops I think - images are a horror story - golf ball / no deatail - need to re-think this madness !!

Mark,

This is great! Failure is what's needed to go to the next step as it helps focus what's really an issue. If your composition is fine, then your picture might be too!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Tell that to the UK goalkeeper... he could use some cheering up. :-(

Nill
My remark was not meant for people who have gone through the jolt of "separation stage" when their one parachute floats off without them or for goalkeepers in like predicament!

Asher
 

Mark Hampton

New member

handleglegleghand.jpg

1/160s @ F4 - there were 3 LED light sorces - the rest of the images either have blur - moving people or were under exposed by a further stop ish to try and freeze the movement - I think I may need to have a faster lens - or wait until the slow bit in the music - alought I dont mind the bluring - would prefer to have a choice is you ken what I mean.

any comments / suggestions most welcome !
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief

handleglegleghand.jpg

1/160s @ F4 - there were 3 LED light sorces - the rest of the images either have blur - moving people or were under exposed by a further stop ish to try and freeze the movement - I think I may need to have a faster lens - or wait until the slow bit in the music - alought I dont mind the bluring - would prefer to have a choice is you ken what I mean.

any comments / suggestions most welcome !

This is really a hunter's job! You have done well for a start! So pat yourself on the back!

This is not the kind of laid back contemplative work of Sandrine Bascouert's French countryside, Jim Collum's beaches with rolling surf or meticulous architectural compositions or portraits of neglected industrial structures , or the peaceful woodlands and meadows Dwayne Oakes prefers or Jim Galli's pensive B&W stidies of anything within reach or else Ken Tanaka's brilliantly planned, created and selected snaps of architecture, form, theme and people with the parts playing off each other.

This is much more aggressive work! You will have to be nimble and be prepared to stand on chairs, crouch on the floor, climb in a ledge, whatever it takes to find a vantage point that works. So at the outset, you have got access to the target and that's the most important first step! At least in a wedding, folk cooperate to a degree. Here, however, it's your wits and planning that count the most.

Like the lion waiting in the grass, you must know where your subject will be and how it will be moving and what will be obstacles to that instant, explosive move for the kill. One cannot just enjoy the music fully. Interest has to be shifted to spaces and shapes and predicting cycles of movement. What is interesting to discover, is even the most improvisational artists repeat themselves in their movements on stage. So if you mist a composition, next time around you will be prepared to frame and catch it in that fleeting moment. All the time, you are sketching. Thousands of snaps in your mind and maybe 50-100 in your camera.

Watch the lights and the obstacles like the microphone. How can you get the musician as a person and then as part of what's happening. How can one compose when the performers are spread out. This is a work of a tactician.

Lighting is another matter. You are almost there. What you need now is working at it. You have stripped the EXIF shot details. So what was the ISO used here?

Asher
 

Mark Hampton

New member
Lighting is another matter. You are almost there. What you need now is working at it. You have stripped the EXIF shot details. So what was the ISO used here?

Asher

EXIF was present i get it when I DL this file - it is 6400 / on manual /105mm @4.5m ---

asher do you like monty Python ?

jake the Peg !!!

I have a chance to try tomorrow night with a larger band at the same venue.. you think its worth hunting K T Tunstall
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I have a chance to try tomorrow night with a larger band at the same venue.. you think its worth hunting K T Tunstall

She'll say "Nah nah nah nah you're not the one for me."

Come in with a giant picture of a Cherry tree and write on it "Forsaken and your name!" She'll have a good laugh and for sure give you a moment for a picture! So bring flash with a diffuser.

Asher
 

Mark Hampton

New member
This is really a hunter's job! You have done well for a start! So pat yourself on the back!

This is much more aggressive work! You will have to be nimble and be prepared to stand on chairs, crouch on the floor, climb in a ledge, whatever it takes to find a vantage point that works. So at the outset, you have got access to the target and that's the most important first step! At least in a wedding, folk cooperate to a degree. Here, however, it's your wits and planning that count the most.

Like the lion waiting in the grass, you must know where your subject will be and how it will be moving and what will be obstacles to that instant, explosive move for the kill. One cannot just enjoy the music fully. Interest has to be shifted to spaces and shapes and predicting cycles of movement. What is interesting to discover, is even the most improvisational artists repeat themselves in their movements on stage. So if you mist a composition, next time around you will be prepared to frame and catch it in that fleeting moment. All the time, you are sketching. Thousands of snaps in your mind and maybe 50-100 in your camera.

Watch the lights and the obstacles like the microphone. How can you get the musician as a person and then as part of what's happening. How can one compose when the performers are spread out. This is a work of a tactician.

Lighting is another matter. You are almost there. What you need now is working at it. You have stripped the EXIF shot details. So what was the ISO used here?

Asher

I fully agree with the hunting -and sometimes the crowd are more interesting !

Tp3.jpg

food sometimes finds you !!

Tp2.jpg


Tp1.jpg

film images from a few years ago @ T in the park - during a break from assisting.
 

Mark Hampton

New member
borrowed a 50m 1.4 lens - the extra stops made a big difference - thanks for the advice peoples

KT-2.jpg


KT1per.jpg

only got to work for less than 2 songs before getting burst by the public relations person - thats stars for you !!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
borrowed a 50m 1.4 lens - the extra stops made a big difference - thanks for the advice peoples

KT-2.jpg


KT1per.jpg

only got to work for less than 2 songs before getting burst by the public relations person - thats stars for you !!


A great improvement! Now give them the pictures and write a nice note. Perhaps you will get permission! You must be persistent as the feint hearted will not get the pictures in the first place! If you tell them they can get the pictures and remove any bad one's you'll be fine.

This is where the GXR with low light capability and an f2.5 lens is useful. It's silent and you can dial in negative compensation and the camera looks like a point and shoot so it won't attract so much attention.

So how did the color go?

Asher
 

Mark Hampton

New member
Colour went ok i think - moniter is not profiled so what you c is a best guess !!

KT3.jpg

colour temp is around 2000 ish I think on these

KT4.jpg


they were shot for the venue - i had a pass - so i will give them the images and then as you suggest get my people to contact her people !!
 

Mark Hampton

New member
Hi Hi,

Back in tams for some Saturday night fun.... Some good bands - beer and this time looking for some broken images.. iso cranked up as loud as music ... detail as patchy as the sound..... some moments of light and dark for you...


Band1bf.jpg



Band 1 - M Hampton


Band2a1.jpg



Band 2 - M Hampton


Bandcsm.jpg



Band 3 - M Hampton

Band3dL.jpg



Band 3 - M Hampton​

cheers
 
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