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Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!
Abstraction, Abstract: something real or not? :) An education on approach to art.
- Thread starter Harvey Moore
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Alain Briot
pro member
Looks like it's time for installments 2 and 3
I want to read the whole essay. Then we'll see if the Ntl gallery curator still has a job or not.
And in the meantime, this essay by Ben is relevant to this thread, in particular section 2 - "What is Abstract Art":
http://www.rawworkflow.com/making_pictures/index.html
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Looks like it's time for installments 2 and 3
I want to read the whole essay. Then we'll see if the Ntl gallery curator still has a job or not.
And in the meantime, this essay by Ben is relevant to this thread, in particular section 2 - "What is Abstract Art":
http://www.rawworkflow.com/making_pictures/index.html
Until electricity, light came from the sky, lanterns or candles. History describes what was!
The the National Gallery is what is!
Asher
Hi Alain,
You looking for the curator's job? I doubt if you would get it. They need someone who can read, I expect, or at least someone who can do simple sums, who recognises the difference between one word 'abstraction' and two words 'abstract art'.
Help? You say you help? Your "help" has been weighed, measured, and found wanting.
Best wishes,
Ray
You looking for the curator's job? I doubt if you would get it. They need someone who can read, I expect, or at least someone who can do simple sums, who recognises the difference between one word 'abstraction' and two words 'abstract art'.
Help? You say you help? Your "help" has been weighed, measured, and found wanting.
Best wishes,
Ray
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nicolas claris
OPF Co-founder/Administrator
It is amazing (astonishing?) that this threads begins and ends (yet) by deleted posts.
Without rewriting the history, I strongly feel, that, in an open area such as OPF, one must respect each other and argue with strong but polite (not offending) opinions and adjectives...
This is the price for nice behavior (behaviour?) and for being able to freely express our strong beliefs.
I had l like to see this discussion all sitting around a table with some great wine, water, beer, tea or what ever one prefers, and after a strongly but friendly argumented discussion one toast all each others.
No doubt we're all here because we all wish to share feelings, tricks, informations, the how, the when, the why and all the questionnings about photography.
Because we think we are free people or because we think, that if we aren't, we should.
Common guys come back from your bitter spirit and get here with a glass in hand! we need you all…
[he said with a warm smile]
Without rewriting the history, I strongly feel, that, in an open area such as OPF, one must respect each other and argue with strong but polite (not offending) opinions and adjectives...
This is the price for nice behavior (behaviour?) and for being able to freely express our strong beliefs.
I had l like to see this discussion all sitting around a table with some great wine, water, beer, tea or what ever one prefers, and after a strongly but friendly argumented discussion one toast all each others.
No doubt we're all here because we all wish to share feelings, tricks, informations, the how, the when, the why and all the questionnings about photography.
Because we think we are free people or because we think, that if we aren't, we should.
Common guys come back from your bitter spirit and get here with a glass in hand! we need you all…
[he said with a warm smile]
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Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
The discussion of fundamental ideas in any subject can test even what different things mean.
It is very difficult for us to remove anything as we must protect the path of free expression.
Speaking for Nicolas and all the others in the team, let me emphasize the value of difference of opinion. Debates are the cauldrons in which we test the mettle of our values and knowledge. We anneal more worthy ideas into our being and become better at whatever we try to achieve. That is why we are an open forum.
Ray is my great friend who labors many hours to keep the forum going in the right direction. He is a genrous person. So he will, I know, excuse me for removing his thoughts, for the time being. I'm troubled doing so, and that is a good thing that I have a conscience.
Asher
It is very difficult for us to remove anything as we must protect the path of free expression.
Speaking for Nicolas and all the others in the team, let me emphasize the value of difference of opinion. Debates are the cauldrons in which we test the mettle of our values and knowledge. We anneal more worthy ideas into our being and become better at whatever we try to achieve. That is why we are an open forum.
Ray is my great friend who labors many hours to keep the forum going in the right direction. He is a genrous person. So he will, I know, excuse me for removing his thoughts, for the time being. I'm troubled doing so, and that is a good thing that I have a conscience.
Asher
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
Awww!
I wish I would have your ability to express my thoughts in the english language! But sometimes, a smiley rolling on the floor laughing, says more than a 1000 words. <grins>
I would sign that any time, and btw. you all succeed in making this forum exactly this, an open forum, open for free exchange of ideas and debates, which makes it so very different to all the others I know about so far.
A challenge in deed, and in my book you succeed to do that with excellence!
I am sure Ray understands!
Btw. did anyone think about sending Harvey a private message to re join here and re post his picture? I feel bad that we never heard from him again after that, I would do that!
I could understand that he might have felt like being chased out, by a somewhat initially difficult reaction that could have easily be interpreted as rude.
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
I'll have another "Emotion de terroirs 2002" (Domaine Vincent Girardin) please, this outstanding Burgundy just sits so very well with that excellent duck on cherries. <smiles> and I raise my glas to toast you fine people around here and on many more years of friendly and interesting exchange to come!
To Health, Salut, Prost, Cheers, live Long & Prosper! <grins>
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Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Georg, thanks for your kind comments,
Harvey is cool. His removal of the picture, in fact, made me face up to our need to give guidance at intervals on how we approach each other’s generously shared work. Being right is not good enough. First, we may or may not be mistaken! So at the least we must acknowledge the emotional and artistic reality of the image, whatever is truly worthy, so that we have credit and license to be critical.
We are not grading parts in a motorbike factory where anything is either perfect for the task or not.
We must nurture and hold precious everyone one else's sensitivity. Art, after all, involves transmission of the artist’s ideas through something physical. That already is a generous human act and we must never crush it. We are not naive. So we won't be impressed with what is not impressive. That is why we have to be thoughtful and honest.
I have no truck with praising what doesn't move me. False praise is like cheering on someone who is running in the wrong path. The photographer is sharing to tell us how he/she does something, bring us a personal experience that moved them or to get feed back on the current success of the picture in evoking certain feelings and ideas of human value.
Ultimately, we are concerned with making pictures that we will love, brides will treasure, agencies and news services will license, collectors will search for and so forth.
Learning how to share and give comment is best done with care as one would to a close friend or family member. In this process we all learn.
Be generous as one would in one's own home, after all that is what OPF is.
Asher
Harvey is cool. His removal of the picture, in fact, made me face up to our need to give guidance at intervals on how we approach each other’s generously shared work. Being right is not good enough. First, we may or may not be mistaken! So at the least we must acknowledge the emotional and artistic reality of the image, whatever is truly worthy, so that we have credit and license to be critical.
We are not grading parts in a motorbike factory where anything is either perfect for the task or not.
We must nurture and hold precious everyone one else's sensitivity. Art, after all, involves transmission of the artist’s ideas through something physical. That already is a generous human act and we must never crush it. We are not naive. So we won't be impressed with what is not impressive. That is why we have to be thoughtful and honest.
I have no truck with praising what doesn't move me. False praise is like cheering on someone who is running in the wrong path. The photographer is sharing to tell us how he/she does something, bring us a personal experience that moved them or to get feed back on the current success of the picture in evoking certain feelings and ideas of human value.
Ultimately, we are concerned with making pictures that we will love, brides will treasure, agencies and news services will license, collectors will search for and so forth.
Learning how to share and give comment is best done with care as one would to a close friend or family member. In this process we all learn.
Be generous as one would in one's own home, after all that is what OPF is.
Asher
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nicolas claris
OPF Co-founder/Administrator
A ta santé !
nicolas claris
OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Yes, done already since the very beginning but you can do it too...
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Kevin Bjorke
New member
I think that you make your pictures, and you stick with them or you abandon them & move on.
Harvey, as the initial poster, might already have gained the knowledge he needed and has moved forward with his photography. Isn't *that* the idea of posting, after all?
Harvey, as the initial poster, might already have gained the knowledge he needed and has moved forward with his photography. Isn't *that* the idea of posting, after all?
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Kevin,
That sounds perfect. However, one can develop a picture in a number of ways. Ansel Adams revisited his work. Also, people may be struggling to transmit some idea and would like feedback to if their own ideas are getting to the viewer.
Asher
Jack_Flesher
New member
Coming in a bit late to this thread, but I was lucky enough to have glimpsed Harvey's image early on before it got deleted and had planned to get back to comment later. It really is too bad the thread degenerated into a semantics argument before any constructive comments about the image could be shared.
Anyway Harvey... One, I felt it certainly qualified as an absract from a photographic point of view and two, I personally liked it!
From what I remember of it, I felt the only possible issue might have been the central highlights being perhaps a few points too hot, but that could have been a web thing. Anyway, best of luck on your project and hope it progresses well for you!
Cheers,
Anyway Harvey... One, I felt it certainly qualified as an absract from a photographic point of view and two, I personally liked it!
From what I remember of it, I felt the only possible issue might have been the central highlights being perhaps a few points too hot, but that could have been a web thing. Anyway, best of luck on your project and hope it progresses well for you!
Cheers,
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I'm looking forward to getting the first post back. Harvey's picture should be reposted and then we can discuss with the same title. I see no reason to change the title!
In the meanwhile, this argument has helped open up my own mind to further possibilities that would otherwise be excluded with tight definitions.
BTW, I would challenge someone to come up with pure abstract art. If the artist had an idea then its transformation to a physical form is an expression of something. So how is it abstract? Of ccourse if one defines abstract art as being devoid of relationship in the observors mind, then that is an easier goal to accomplish.
Asher
In the meanwhile, this argument has helped open up my own mind to further possibilities that would otherwise be excluded with tight definitions.
BTW, I would challenge someone to come up with pure abstract art. If the artist had an idea then its transformation to a physical form is an expression of something. So how is it abstract? Of ccourse if one defines abstract art as being devoid of relationship in the observors mind, then that is an easier goal to accomplish.
Asher
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