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Do the Jews really run America?

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
I read a recent article online about Israel, the comments below it were almost unanimous in their assertion that the Jews run America and that is the root of all world trouble. I would think it to have been just some crazies would it not have been for it seeming to be the mantra of a certain section of left wing thinkers in any conversation involving Israel. What really brought it to mind was talking to the boss of my camera store in the UK, a good friend and really nice guy who mentioned as a 'by the way' that 'everyone knows the Jews run America'. I was rather dumbfounded!

Seriously, the assertion is one that has changed little from a pamphlet brought out under the secret sponsership of the Russian Government well over a hundred years ago under the title 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' which asserted (I haven't read it) that there was a select group of Jews who would meet and decide world politics for their benifit. Very Robert Ludlum in fact. The assertion was interestingly also the base on which Hitler wrote the principles of Mein Kampf, the assertion that unless curbed the Jews would rule the world.

I have to admit that as a Jew I find it almost amusing that America thinks so little of itself that they would ascribe to the view that not only have they allowed one of the smallest minorities in the country (Hispanics are the largest followed by African Americans according to an article that I read on Yahoo) to take over, but that although the Jewish lobby is undoubtely powerful, I have little doubt that it is nothing compared to the oil lobby, the weapons manufacturing lobby, etc.

What does worry me is that a huge amount of the diatribes leveled against Jews in this day and age are incredibly and extremely uncomfortably similar to those used just 69 years ago the echos are very worrying to those who know the history of the Jews over the past 2000 years where they have been used as scapegoats for most everything from the Black Plague to the 2nd World War to 911 to somehow Iraq (like Israel didn't have enough problems on its plate!). What is worrying is that although only 5 million Jews live in Israel, a small fraction of the Jews in the world, Israel has become synonmous with Jew and the hatred spewed is against 'the Jew' rather than 'the Israeli'. Words such as 'Holocaust', 'Nazi', 'Genocide' are regularly bandied about as descriptions, a rather sucessful attempt at throwing off the guilt and realisation of Jews in a historical context to justify hate preached against them.

I remember a high up member of parliment (UK) talking to a group of Jewish students stating that Anti Semetism is now again popular in upper class circles as a matter of over dinner conversation.

I hope none of the intelligent members of this forum are prey to such illusions but does anyone else share an amusment at the rather obvious use of Jews as a scapegoat for all Americas ills even in this day and age, and also an apprehension as to the level and acceptability of such obviously regurgitated age old Anti Semitism and Racism for much the same reason?

Does anyone else share with me the belief that a rather obvious indication of a good old fashioned anti semite is the use of the word 'Jew' instead of 'Israeli' when attacking Israeli policies?

And just a plea, can we keep this one civil, polite and based on facts not left or right propaganda?

And just to make it photographic ;-)

chassidi.jpg

Yerushalmi children looking back at Jerualem through the back window of their bus. The 'Yerushalmi' Jews came to Jerusalem some 300 years ago to escape pursecution after the failure of Napleon in Russia when almost a million Jews were killed in pogroms. They have hardly changed since then and consider the Israeli government as an occupying country just as they considered the Turks and English who preceded them! I am dying to do a project on them when I have the time, incredibly nice people with a beautifully innocent livelihood and happy children whom it's a pleasure to watch and photograph.
 

Nill Toulme

New member
I respond as a goy (most recently a shabos goy shooting my friends' quadruple b'nai mitzvah). Has it not been the lot of the Jews for at least the last 2000 years to be the butt of suspicion, rumor, superstition, scape-goating, as well as hatred and persecution at the hands of the ignorant and the ill-intentioned?

BTW, I didn't know that Russia had a hand in fomenting the Protocols. I do seem to recall that Henry Ford was heavily involved in it.

Shalom,

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
Really Nill? as a Shabbos Goy let me tell you a story!

Vicount Tony Pandy, ex Speaker of the House of Commons (the UK Parliment) told this story, my father was one of the ones privileged to hear it.

He told the story of growing up in a tiny Welsh mining village. One day a Jew came to live in the village, one of the refugees from Europe. He was just a little boy and when he came home that day holding a shiny new shilling his mother wanted to know where he got it from. 'The Jew gave it to me' he replied. His mother demanded to know why. 'So that I would light his fire for him on his Sabbath!' His mother turned round sternly to him and in a no nonsense tone of voice said 'Take it back'. 'Why' stammered the little boy, this was a fortune for him. 'Take it back!'. 'But why Mom? He gave it to me'. 'Take it back Son, you don't take money from a man who is just trying to keep his religion!'.

However the Jew wouldn't allow him to return the money, if the boy was going to help him then he wanted to reward him for it! He came round to argue it out with the mother. In the end, after the strict Catholic mother and the Jewish refugee had spent half an hour arguing it over, they came to a compromise. The boy would be able to take the money the first time but after that would do it for free.

The Viscount said this with tears in his eyes, 'I learnt from my mother that you don't stand in the way of a man trying to practise his religion, you Jews who would still keep to your faith through all you've been through.

I've always found that story very touching, inspiration in a world that holds little of it. Thank you Nill for helping as that little boy did.
 

doug anderson

New member
This is a very, very old idea. I would be more confident in saying that the Mormons run Arizona and all the carriage drivers in Central Park are Irish -- oh yes, and all the motel chains are run by Pakistanis.

I don't know why this kind of thinking persists, but it's got a racist feel to it. And it certainly was successful when used by Hitler. Bad, bad thinking.
 

Dierk Haasis

pro member
Don't we all know that Jewish Communist-Nazis from outer space with slanted eyes run the world. And that there main base is Area 51 near Burkovskiy, for which Roswell is just a clever ploy to hide the real village in the Mongolian desert, also known as Bermuda Triangle?

Reminds me: J. von Buttlar is just the third regen of Erich von Däniken.
 
I believe someone really does run America (i.e. United States), and I'd like to know who it is. Whoever does run this country needs to be replaced with someone who is for the middle class, not the rich. Sorry for this personally, politically slanted post, but I couldn't resist.
Chuck
 
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Doug Kerr

Well-known member
In 2000, when Senator Joe Lieberman was in the running to be the Democratic candidate for Vice President of the United states, I mentioned to one of my friends that I admired him and hoped he got the nomination and would be elected. My friend said, "But aren't you concerned about his religion?"

"What do you mean?", I replied. "That he isn't Episcopalian?"
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Dierk,

Rhetoric! I may disagree with John McCain here and there but he is essentially a good person. He's not hollow!

Asher
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Asher,

Dierk,

Rhetoric! I may disagree with John McCain here and there but he is essentially a good person. He's not hollow!

And I would certainly vote for John McCain for a lot of things - but President of the US on the Republican ticket in 2008 isn't one of them.

He's a great amateur stand-up comedian, for example, and a very bright guy.

But he has turned into just the latest nozzle on the 21st century Republican hose. (Those quick connect fittings are so very handy.)

Best regards,

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
But he has turned into just the latest nozzle on the 21st century Republican hose. (Those quick connect fittings are so very handy.)
So, Doug,

I love this concise way of sweeping away McCains importance! So, who's the stand up comedian? If you made that up, kudos! What a great metaphor! If not, where does it originate?

In any case, Obama serves as a quick release valve for all the guilt white people have for the slavery brought to innocents dragged from the African continent in chains and used without rights, raped and dispossessed of their dignity.

Convenient that his skin is colored. Saves spraying the son of a Canadian or Swedish immigrant.

Truth be known, neither man is well qualified but after all is said and done, at least McCain has some integrity and stands up for right and wrong. Obama's lack of response to his friends behavior over 20 years is more real than his act as a black knight coming to the rescue of the white man's guilt!

Asher
 

Nill Toulme

New member
...at least McCain has some integrity and stands up for right and wrong. ...

Indeed he does seem to stand up for right AND wrong. For a long time he was standing up for right; more and more often lately he seems to be switching to wrong. ;-)

When he threw in with Bush on the torture question I wanted to throw up. :-(

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
 

Dierk Haasis

pro member
There's things in favour of McCain:

- he's old enough to be followed quickly by his VP
- he will never give in to any opposition or enemy because he can't move his arms over his head
- he pleases all sides since his opinion shifts from minute to minute
- he is so bad an actor that even the blind can see how convinced he is of nonsensical material by his writers [look out for last week's speech featured in the Daily Show and by Colbert]
- all his bad characteristics have already been shown by Karl Rove, Richard Cheney and a certain George W. Bush when they ran against him
- the priests endorsing him are neither African-American nor angry, just deeply disturbed all-around-haters
- he knew how to kick out a loving and patient wife in favour of a much younger and richer one
- he knows his way around the Beltway [in other words: he's been part of the establishment getting the US into trouble for over 30 years]
- he's not easily connected to a novel by Irving Wallace
 

Nill Toulme

New member
Those interested in the original question, and the many other questions that inform it, might also be interested in a new book, The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power, by Jeff Sharlet. I just ran across a reference to it on a NYT blog, and looked it up on Amazon. The following is lifted verbatim from Amazon's blurb:

A journalist's penetrating look at the untold story of christian fundamentalism's most elite organization, a self-described invisible network dedicated to a religion of power for the powerful

They are the Family—fundamentalism's avant-garde, waging spiritual war in the halls of American power and around the globe. They consider themselves the new chosen—congressmen, generals, and foreign dictators who meet in confidential cells, to pray and plan for a "leadership led by God," to be won not by force but through "quiet diplomacy." Their base is a leafy estate overlooking the Potomac in Arlington, Virginia, and Jeff Sharlet is the only journalist to have reported from inside its walls.

The Family is about the other half of American fundamentalist power—not its angry masses, but its sophisticated elites. Sharlet follows the story back to Abraham Vereide, an immigrant preacher who in 1935 organized a small group of businessmen sympathetic to European fascism, fusing the far right with his own polite but authoritarian faith. From that core, Vereide built an international network of fundamentalists who spoke the language of establishment power, a "family" that thrives to this day. In public, they host Prayer Breakfasts; in private, they preach a gospel of "biblical capitalism," military might, and American empire. Citing Hitler, Lenin, and Mao as leadership models, the Family's current leader, Doug Coe, declares, "We work with power where we can, build new power where we can't."

Sharlet's discoveries dramatically challenge conventional wisdom about American fundamentalism, revealing its crucial role in the unraveling of the New Deal, the waging of the cold war, and the no-holds-barred economics of globalization. The question Sharlet believes we must ask is not "What do fundamentalists want?" but "What have they already done?"

Part history, part investigative journalism, The Family is a compelling account of how fundamentalism came to be interwoven with American power, a story that stretches from the religious revivals that have shaken this nation from its beginning to fundamentalism's new frontiers. No other book about the right has exposed the Family or revealed its far-reaching impact on democracy, and no future reckoning of American fundamentalism will be able to ignore it.​
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Nill,

Any chance there have been academic review and critique? Is the "history" independantly supported or is this hearsay?

Remember, The "Protocols of the Elder's of Zion" was simply a fictional piece made up for the Czar's secret police to boost up antisemitism. Henry Ford must be given the credit for it's resurgence as a tool of the 20th Century as he financed it's republication in it's current form and translations for Hitler.

Asher



Asher
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
It's strange that (if we set aside shops dealing in religious articles and such things as Kosher butchers) we find lots of "Christian" businesses (transmission repair shops, plumbers, etc.) advertised but no "Jewish" ones.

Best regards,

Doug Kerr
Episcopalian at large (now that's another story!).
 

Rachel Foster

New member
Jewish-Indian who was baptized here....you wanna talk stories.....but I digress.

For some reason, Jewish people still experience a great deal of discrimination. I've pondered this, and I can pinpoint a few reasons why this might be, but it is still absurd.


My husband is Jewish and we have been raising our children Jewish. However, the local Temple went through a period of internal political strife and we opted out. Instead, we took the children to the Unitarian church in town. I asked my then 11-year-old son what he thought and he replied that he liked it but was Jewish. I told him that, essentially since the Unitarians do not require adherence to a given creed, he could be both. He thought for a moment, then his face brightened and he announced, "Then I...." pause..."am a Jew-nitarian!"

Kid's one in a million.
 

Nill Toulme

New member
Asher there's quite a bit being written about it; google it and see. It's just coming out as we speak; it will be interesting to see what sort of reaction it receives and if it gets any real traction with the mainstream press.

I only learned about it today. Apparently it's essentially an inside account. The writer has been around for a while.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
One interesting thing about americans religious identity that is so different from what I observed in the U.K. Anyone there who believes in the "New Testament" and it's derivative interpretations of the Dying on the Cross, Deity, resurrection and so forth, are called Christians. The further subtypes are important, for sure, but all are Christian.

From my observations here, there is a very different attitude on behalf of many believers in the New Testament as a revelation from divine source. A friend told me recently, "I was raised Catholic but I converted to Christianity". I asked "What part of the trinity and resurrection did you not believe as a Catholic?"
 

Kathy Rappaport

pro member
one of the pleasures

One of the pleasures I have had in my years is the ability to travel and the last few I have made sure to visit the Synagogues during my travels, in Venice, and Rome and and Croatia, Greece and St. Petersburg Russia. On the little island of Corfu, you will find Jews from all corners of the Earth who have come to pay respects to those who vanished from 1935-1945 and the same in Dubrovnik. Families return for High Holiday Services from other corners of the globe when they did not perish and there is almost no Jewish Community. In Rome, we were able to watch the joy of a wedding, and in St. Petersburg, we watched women in the balcony praying while the men below carried the Torah where they were not allowed to worship for many years. This week in Berlin, a week too late for me to visit, the Temple which was destroyed by Hitler's decree held services again. What joy that our real beliefs can never be taken and that we will always connect. Regardless of politics and hatred. So maybe one day the world will know that there is futility in hatred. As a people, the Jews will survive. We cannot be destroyed.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Asher,

From my observations here, there is a very different attitude on behalf of many believers in the New Testament as a revelation from divine source. A friend told me recently, "I was raised Catholic but I converted to Christianity". I asked "What part of the trinity and resurrection did you not believe as a Catholic?"

Indeed (referencing my recent comment here), based on my observations, if you see a business card advertising a "Christian Transmission Repair Shop", it's not likely that the proprietor is a professed Episcopalian or Methodist.

My guess is that your friend didn't leave the Roman Catholic Church (to give it a more precise name than we often see †) to join an Episcopal or Methodist church.

Note that one camp in the Episcopal church considers it to be not only catholic but also Catholic (to be specific, Anglo-Catholic, as distinguished from, say, Roman Catholic or Eastern Catholic).

In any case, within the non-Papal hemisphere of Christianity (generally described as Protestantism, but there is sometimes a small complication in the case of Anglican/Episcopal churches), we seem to have (for example) Methodists, Episcopalians, Congregationalists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, and Christians.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi, Asher,



Indeed (referencing my recent comment here), based on my observations, if you see a business card advertising a "Christian Transmission Repair Shop", it's not likely that the proprietor is a professed Episcopalian or Methodist.

My guess is that your friend didn't leave the Roman Catholic Church (to give it a more precise name than we often see †) to join an Episcopal or Methodist church.

Note that one camp in the Episcopal church considers it to be not only catholic but also Catholic (to be specific, Anglo-Catholic, as distinguished from, say, Roman Catholic or Eastern Catholic).

In any case, within the non-Papal hemisphere of Christianity (generally described as Protestantism, but there is sometimes a small complication in the case of Anglican/Episcopal churches), we seem to have (for example) Methodists, Episcopalians, Congregationalists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, and Christians.

Doug, that is interesting! Do the sub group of Protestants defining themselves as "Christians" do so because of any shared distinguishing philosophy that is more likely to be absent from other Christian Faiths?

Be that as it may, what really leaves me flummoxed is the need of all of these sects to offer bread or healthcare to Armenian villages, (who after all are Armenian Orthodox, one of the oldest churches in Christendom) when on the other side of the gift is a hook to their new brand of Christianity. Assuming that Christianity is after all a true divine instruction, what should we think then of snagging the hand that is open for bread as one would bait a hook for fish?

Also, in general, why is it so necessary for people to convert others to their own brand of faith? IOW, is there actually no room for tolerance in devout Christianity, even towards other segments of the same faith?

Why can't it be accepted that other people, for example, Armenian Orthodox, have inherent beauty in their own ritual and don't need to be converted?

Or is this an example of the "Philadelphia Mallet Rule". It's told that a Professor declared that once a stonehenge man invented a more perfect mallet, then everything within reach needed to be smashed with it. So I guess, once all the nearby targets get hit with one's more perfect mallet, one stops and reassesses one's purpose. That is the defining moment. From somewhere within, there's a calling perhaps. One now has, miraculously, a higher purpose in life and goes forth to distant lands to hit everything their with one's more perfect mallet. Not to do so, would, in a way, contravene some universal law, depriving others of the more perfect mallet experience.

Asher
 
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