• Please use real names.

    Greetings to all who have registered to OPF and those guests taking a look around. Please use real names. Registrations with fictitious names will not be processed. REAL NAMES ONLY will be processed

    Firstname Lastname

    Register

    We are a courteous and supportive community. No need to hide behind an alia. If you have a genuine need for privacy/secrecy then let me know!
  • Warning: and are NSFW. Threads may start of as text only but then pictures could be added as part of a discussion or to make some point. This is not for family viewing without a parent's consent and supervision. If you are under age 18, please do not use this section
  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Electing the U.S. president

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Many of my colleagues living outside the United States know far more about American civics than many Americans. But for the benefit of all, I thought I would clarify a few things about the process by which the President of the United States (POTUS) is elected. I will couch my description as if addressing a non-U.S. reader.

The general election

The president for the term 2013-2017 (and it is rarely stated that way) will be elected by a national general election to be held on Tuesday, November 6, 2012 CE. The process of this election is a curious one indeed, and I will discuss it later in the year.

The primary process

Of immediate interest is the matter of what persons will be candidates for president in that election - the "primary process".

There is no nationwide system of primary elections that select those candidates. Rather, the candidates must in general be put forth in the name of a recognized political party, and the candidates of the parties are chosen by "floor votes" in national conventions held by those parties in the summer before the general election.

The number of delegates from each state to a party's national convention is based on a formula adopted by the party, usually involving the size of the state (as reflected by the number of senators and representatives it has in the national legislature), but modified based on how that state voted in the last presidential election.

Each state has, for each recognized political party, a process for selecting the members of that state's delegation to the national convention. These processes are covered to some extent by state law, but many of the details are reserved to the state leadership of the respective political party. Thus the process of selecting members of the Texas delegation to the national convention of the Republican Party is dramatically different than the process for the Democratic Party.

In some states this is done through a system of primary elections; in some states by a system of caucuses. In one form, in effect, people in favor of Smith gather in one group, those in favor of Jones in another group). In another form, those who attend the caucus cast secret ballots. In Texas, for the Democratic party, there is a bizarre concatenation of a primary election and then (after the polls have closed) a scheme of caucuses. The resultant are combined in a curious way.

In many cases, for one of both parties, the results of the process is only to select delegates to a state party convention, which actually selects the delegates to the national party convention. Sometimes the process has more stages, including a county and district convention, with some delegates to the national convention being selected at lower stages and some at higher stages.

It is nightmarish. Almost no one understands how it works.

Primary elections and equivalents

Typically, any qualified voter may vote in the primary election (or other equivalent process) for any one of the recognized political parties (but not more than one). This of course means that a voter who favors the re-election of the incumbent president may choose to vote in the primary election of the opposing party, voting for the least-viable contender in hopes that he would become that party's nominee and thus give the weakest opposition to the incumbent.

In some states, to make sure that a voter does not vote in more than one party's primary election, the voters must first register as a supporter of a specific party. That of course has no effect on how the voter may vote in the general election.

In at least one state, a person intending to vote in a certain party's primary election must sign a pledge to "support" in the general election (that presumably means "vote for") that party's ultimate candidate. There is of course no way that this can be enforced, and it is based on a questionable legal premise; my guess is that this provision will be annulled by the courts.

In general, all or some of the delegates chosen for a party in a certain state are committed to a certain contender for the nomination. In some states, either under state law or under the rules of the particular party, all delegates are actually free to vote for any of the contenders at the national convention. In other cases, under state law or under the rules of the particular party, the delegates are obligated to vote for the contender to which they are committed in the first round of voting ("first ballot") at the convention (unless that contender had earlier withdrawn or for some other reasons "released" his delegates). But if no contender receives a majority in the first ballot (needed for selection), in the ensuing second ballot the delegates are free to vote as they wish.

But in some states, or under the rules of a particular party in some states, the delegates committed to certain contenders must also vote for that contender on the second ballot if the contender received at least a certain fraction of the votes (maybe 15%) at the first ballot.

And so forth. It is of course a mesh of nightmares.

The role of Iowa

The U.S. state of Iowa is located in the northeastern portion of the central U.S. (just northwest of Illinois). It is considered representative of traditional American society. It has been a major agricultural state, and agriculture is still prominent there (the growing of corn being a major aspect). It only is allocated 28 delegates to the Republican convention, one of the smallest state delegations

Iowa uses the caucus scheme for both parties to select the delegates to the party national conventions (but through a multi-level system of intermediate conventions, a different scheme between the two parties). The Iowa caucuses are these days held just after the start of the year in which the general election will be held (this year on 2012.01.03), the earliest "primary election or equivalent event" in the country.

For this reason, undue (actually unnatural) emphasis is placed on the result of the Iowa caucuses. But of course the result of the caucuses is not the final word even for the Iowa delegation to the party's national convention, owing to the role of the intermediate county, distinct and state conventions.

Best regards,

Doug
 
Thanks for those insights, Doug. I'm also intrigued by the role of the Electoral College in choosing the President. It almost seems that the framers of the Constitution did not fully trust the people to deliver a direct and unsupervised choice.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Maris,

Thanks for those insights, Doug. I'm also intrigued by the role of the Electoral College in choosing the President.
Yes, that will be the next chapter (as I hinted in my opening)!
It almost seems that the framers of the Constitution did not fully trust the people to deliver a direct and unsupervised choice.
Oh, that was absolutely the case. It part it recognized that most of the people had no ready way of finding out anything about the candidates; many did not receive a newspaper, for example.

Another layer of it however had to do with the nature of the "federal" scheme by which the U.S. was formed, in which the states were very jealous of their power (in tension with that of the federal government). The electoral college system made it seem that it was the states that elected the president.

It is also considered that the scheme would give the southern states power to impede the election of a president who might abolish slavery.

And of course the constitution does not prescribe that the selection of the "electors" was to be by vote among the citizens. That was itself a later development. In the earliest days, many states selected the electors in their state legislatures.

But more on that later.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
Fascinating Doug, I'm looking forward to the next instalments. I have no idea how the US system works at all, probably just like most outside the US.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Ben,

Fascinating Doug, I'm looking forward to the next instalments. I have no idea how the US system works at all, probably just like most outside the US.
Many in the U.S. do not have an accurate view of how it works, especially in the "primary" phase, where the procedures are so bizarre in even the best places.

By tonight, we will have reports of which of the contenders to be the candidate of the Republican party "won" the Iowa caucuses (being held today, 2012.01.03). But, as I described in my earlier piece, there is no such thing. What we will have is a tabulation of the distribution of "preferences" expressed by the voters who attended the caucuses. It is actually, at this stage, an elaborate "straw poll", one taken among only those citizens of one state who cared to participate. I mean no affront to the fine people of Iowa, but the notion that the people of Iowa are somehow magically representative of the entire United States is absurd and inaccurate. Perhaps at one time, earlier in the country's history, that was fairly near to being true.

During the 2008 primary phase, I decided to make a chart that showed how the primary system of one party in the state of Texas actually worked. It took many hours of reading the state statutes and the party rules to ascertain more-or-less exactly how it worked, and I was never fully confident with my final understanding (as there were numerous ambiguities and self-conflicts in the rules).

Carla was selected as a delegate at the lowest level and in fact progressed through the process until she became a delegate to the state convention of the party.

At the county convention, controversy broke out as to exactly how a certain matter should be handled. Even the appointed "parliamentarian" of the convention seemed to have only an impossible view of the matter.

I tool the liberty of giving the convention officials a copy of my chart. They said that was very kind but of course they didn't need it, as they were qualified experts in the matters.

But as the various officials huddled and pondered, I could see them sneaking peeks at my chart.

Their final decision on the matter in contention was, in my opinion, not correct, but then I am only a telephone engineer.

The chart can be seen here:

http://dougkerr.net/illustrations/Democratic_delegates_01.pdf

The state convention was a bizarre and horrifying event. By the time it was held, the choice of the party's candidate was inevitable (all but one contender had withdrawn, based on the happenings in other states that "went earlier"), so the actual main purpose of the convention had become moot. But it served as an arena for the presentation of many extreme views by various camps within the party.

It is often said that politics is a lot like sausage: if you ever really saw how it is made, you would never again eat any.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Slighty off-topic:

.... I mean no affront to the fine people of Iowa, but the notion that the people of Iowa are somehow magically representative of the entire United States is absurd and inaccurate. Perhaps at one time, earlier in the country's history, that was fairly near to being true....
Doug this reminds me, yet again, the famous short story titled "Franchise" written in 1955 by Isaac Asimov.

Plot summary:
...In the future (actually in 2008 according to Asimov), the US has converted to an "electronic democracy" where the computer Multivac selects a single person to answer a number of questions. Multivac will then use the answers and other data to determine what the results of an election would be, avoiding the need for an actual election to be held. .....
....
The idea of a computer predicting whom the electorate would vote for instead of actually holding an election was probably inspired by the UNIVAC I's correct prediction of the result of the 1952 election..

I remember reading the story in my youth and like many other Asimov stories it has left its marks in the development of my character and my never ending interest for computers. It was an interesting coincidence that the 1st computer I have ever worked with at the university was also a UNIVAC.
 

Bob Rogers

New member
In the fewest words possible:

Each party decides the method to select its candidates.

It is also possible for a person to run for office without a party, which happens from time to time -- although I suppose they always end up forming a party for the purpose.

Here's something really odd -- the Republican delegates in Iowa aren't bound by the outcome of the caucus. So the outcome isn't meaningful, except in how it impacts support for the candidates going forward.

The Republican party changed the rules for delegates this time around, making it proportional for primaries prior to April. It will probably result in a much longer contest. The first two primaries with real delegates are South Carolina and Florida, where Gingrich is up by a good margin. If he manages to win both of those it will really change the rest of the race.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
You will see reports in the press this morning that Mitt Romney "won" the Iowa caucuses, albeit by only 8 votes over Rick Santorum.

There is of course no such thing. Romney does not have this morning any "prize" that Santorum does not have, nor in fact that Ron Paul (who "placed third") does not have.

It means that 8 more of the persons attending the caucuses (122,255 altogether) expressed a preference for Romney than for Santorum. Period

It does not tell us anything about the composition of the Iowa delegation to the Republican National Convention - how many of the delegates in that delegation (28 members) will be "pledged" to which of the contenders. That is determined by a multi-stage process, culminating in the Iowa State Republican Convention in June.

The process starts with delegates to the various county Republican conventions (to be held on 2012.03.10); those delegates from each precinct were elected during yesterday's precinct caucuses (an action separate from the expression of preferences for contenders). The county conventions will select delegates from each county to the Republican District Conventions (2012.04.12). Those district conventions will select delegates to the Iowa State Republican Convention (2012.06.16). That convention will select most of the delegates from Iowa to the Republican National Convention (25 of the total state allocation of 28); three party officials have seats ex officio, and are not "pledged" to any contender.

Of course it is likely that the ultimate composition of the Iowa delegation to the Republican National Convention will he heavily influenced by the preference statistics from yesterday's precinct caucuses. But it is not directed by those statistics.

Got that?

Best regards,

Doug
 

James Cook

New member
Campaigns

The campaigns are always interesting, but grueling for both candidates and the voters alike.

In this set of images, I like the cameras as much as anything.

fordincrowd.jpg

Gerald Ford - and a Honeywell "potato masher"

reagan.jpg

Ronald and Nancy Reagan - remember flash bulbs?

obamamingling.jpg

Barack Obama - and now it's cell phones​
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Mark,

I jumped the gun so to speak - the last i heard / read was Oba is rolling rom down the road in ohio (where ever that is)

Well, it is a "midwestern" state that was carved out of land that was originally owned by the far northeastern original state of Connecticut - it was "reserve" land in case Connecticut ran out of space.

In any case, in the past, many American presidents were born there.

And an occasional telephone engineer!

Best regards,

Doug
 
Top