Wolfgang Plattner
Well-known member
Hi
... just a bit of contrasts, no postproduction, filters etc ...
... just a bit of contrasts, no postproduction, filters etc ...
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Hi
... just a bit of contrasts, no postproduction, filters etc ...
The Merriam-Webster and Oxford dictionaries define art as "something created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings". How do you reconcile this image with such definitions of art? Just wondering, cheers, Mike.
To dilute a definition of art renders anything art and art a decomposing corpse from kindly intentions.
Just a thought. Cheers, Mike
Art is something imaginative and creative exported from the mind to a physical form. It evokes feelings or ideas that more than satisfy the expectations of the creator. In the best of times, it might attract attention of others who bring their own ideas to further invite imagination and testing of ideas.
To dilute a definition of art renders anything art and art a decomposing corpse from kindly intentions.
Just a thought. Cheers, Mike
Mike,
The ideas I expressed are merely a restatement of, (how I have, over the past ten years, iteratively built and updated evolving and progressively more useful), my working definition of art for myself.
This is neither casual nor definitive but it is a very serious effort that has paid off for my needs and interface with creative work, both my own and that of others.
It so happens that my ideas overlayed in much part with yours. I am not changing anything, just getting my mind around a complex phenomenon of art from concept to appreciation.
Asher
The Merriam-Webster and Oxford dictionaries define art as "something created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings". How do you reconcile this image with such definitions of art? Just wondering, cheers, Mike.
Hi
In Winter 2014 I stumbled across some sheds at Vienna's Museumsquartier, build of coroplastmaterial. At Christmastime these sheds will house bars, little restaurants and take-a-aways for the public.
I was fascinated by the subtle transparency of the material, its structured rhythm of those twin-wall-sheets in combination with the color and form of objects inside the sheds.
So I took a series of photos to catch that impressive and fascinating sceneries and put them into my sensor"bag" for working them over at home.
This is one of them, I found here the impression of infinite, the infinite blush in the sky during that short little moment at the seaside before sunrise, which the old greeks called "Eos".
Hope that helps.
Thanks Wolfgang. I use a different concept of infinity grounded in mathematics (i.e., an unknown quantity beyond the limits of a designated range). The reason for my query was to find out whether I'd missed something that might help reconcile it with your image. Cheers, Mike.
Mike,
You are correct to point out that I hijacked your question! That was s
An error! An answer to your great question is still needed!
Still, allow me to continue my transgression about by own view of what "art"
might include. Again, this description of mine is merely a guide that works for my own creative endeavors and for my private consideration of art that others produce. When the art is just a self-feeding personal circle, as you fear, it likely as not won't amount to much beyond the satisfaction of the "artist". So you are exactly correct.
However, when art that we create has some magnetic attraction beyond this self indulgant closed loop of satisfaction, it has the chance of competing for broader societal attention as art that we think is worthy of preserving and perhaps owning. Such work calls attention to itself so that observers return with their friends to admire the work.
Still, the beginnings of most work must be that personal pleasure and reward to its creator for managing to bring to fruition in a physical form some abstraction and fancy from their mind.
What reaches a gallery, museum or collector as "Art" is a matter of subjective opinions, fashion, prejudice, favoritism and chance, a kind of Darwinian "survival of the fittest". However, this is not some perfect or approaching perfect selection system. Far from it! Not only are the rules imperfect and harsh but, unlike competing life forms, those that win out may not be able to stand the test of time and the passing of transient quirks of fashion.
Asher
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote here, Asher, but I'll add a couple of minor qualifications.
1. The personal pleasure aspect of reward might be muted rather than strong. Research by Ericsson and colleagues informs us that expertise develops through continued 'deliberate practice', which is often or always miserable, hard, bloody work. Ericsson's work included expertise in the arts (e.g., pianists), but I'll illustrate with personal experience in track & field athletics.
I was a reasonable middle-distance runner at school, got thrown into a couple of race walks by my athletic club because they had no designated walker, wobbled well in a couple of races, but never pursued it further because of other priorities. When aged about 30 years, I decided to take it up again, mainly for fitness but also to see whether I had any talent. Despite bumps along the way, I realized I had. A major bump, though, was a 50 minute for 10 kilometre barrier, a personally symbolic time that was about 5 minutes longer than times for medal winners in national championships at that time. I tried and tried to beat 50 minutes in racing and training but always missed out by 30 seconds or so. Then one day in training, I beat the barrier by 15 seconds. I guess some combination of style, fitness and tactics pushed my performance to higher plateau. However, my reaction wasn't satisfaction or joy, but a grim determination to push my body even harder so as never to fall back to 10 km times greater than 50 minutes. After I retired from international competition some years later, I made a point not to compete in 10km races, so I never again race walked 10 km. in over 50 minutes.
I suspect the pianists and other experts studied by Ericsson and colleagues experienced phasic development to higher performance plateaus in similar ways: it's not pleasure that motivates as much as a cognitive reappraisal toward higher performance potential. I know that's true of me for scientific work more so than for photography, for which my motives have more to do with having fun than development of expertise.
2. You're right that selection procedures for excellence are about survival of the fittest at a given time and in a given context. When competing a race walker, my motto was 'you're only as good as your last race'. It's for that reason I call myself a retired athlete, and for similar reasons call myself a former poet. However, I'll continue to call myself a scientist for a long as my work satisfies the prevailing selection criteria.
Cheers, Mike.
Hi
... just a bit of contrasts, no postproduction, filters etc ...
Thanks Wolfgang. I use a different concept of infinity grounded in mathematics (i.e., an unknown quantity beyond the limits of a designated range). The reason for my query was to find out whether I'd missed something that might help reconcile it with your image. Cheers, Mike.
Wolfgang,
Coming back to your picture that started this deep discussion, I wonder how the slight curve in the "horizon" works with the concept of infinity. (I have always seen such pictures with perfectly straight parallel lines). I am not sure of why the curves are significant, except that I feel some discomfort. Perhaps because parallel lines meet at infinity.
In any case, I hope you continue to labor with this motif, perhaps starting with the word, "infinity" not with a picture. Then photograph something to illustrate that word. Just a thought.
Thanks for putting up work here that challenges us to think critically and for your forbearance when we drift so far off topic!
Asher
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Hi
what a mess with those non-native languages ))
I don't care about straight lines when I'm reminded of an endless horizon (which to me may be one of the interpretations of infinity ... and be honest: the horizon isn't straight ;-)
But as I wrote already, "infinity" was caused by the rosè "sky" ... so the picture should be called "endless Eos" (and I would appreciate it to be corrected) or can "infinite" be right in this context?
Hmm ... I do not think, that the artist is always right ... just shown here ))As the artist, you are always right. After all it's your concept and your invention and present to us! Still it great that folk here are brave enough to critique from their hearts and minds and not blindly praise everything we share!
Thanks
?
Asher
Hmm ... I do not think, that the artist is always right ... just shown here ))
Originally Posted by Michael_Stones View Post
Thanks Wolfgang. I use a different concept of infinity grounded in mathematics (i.e., an unknown quantity beyond the limits of a designated range). The reason for my query was to find out whether I'd missed something that might help reconcile it with your image. Cheers, Mike.
So why did you ask for "Art"?
1. Because posting in Photography as Art declared that you considered the image art.
2. Infinity is an idea with art a concept that includes portrayal of ideas.
3. Questions with a more inclusive frame of reference often elicit more extensive and revealing responses than those with a specific frame.
Cheers, Mike
So I guess you didn't understand the image, you didn't "get connection" to it.
How does this artwork work for you with the new title?
Of course, allowing the artist to declare a work,"art" may seem preposterous, as Mike Stones implied above, but art, in collections and that the folk treasure is also subject to personal and group arrogance and deception too.
So we are left with personal art which is appreciated by a tiny circle and "Art" which others talk about, get mad and excited about, adore and are willing to pay increasing sums of money for. But, for art to start this ridiculously hard journey, it must as the least move you to value it and attempt to seduce others to love it too!
Asher