Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Well, if you shoot sports, like this lady. Then perhaps you do! The video here!
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Who needs 10 frames a second flash?
- Thread starter Asher Kelman
- Start date
Ben Rubinstein
pro member
Had you seen this Asher?
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2009/09/world-debut-hypernova-music-vid-shot.html
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2009/09/world-debut-hypernova-music-vid-shot.html
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
For me, the practical number that interests me is the recycle rate of 0.5 sec for 1200 W.S. power. That is superb for fashion in itself. Dropping the power one gets the fastest recharge rates of 0.05 seconds.
Profoto's Pro-8A 1200 Air Power Pack used in both these instances:
Profoto's Pro-8A
Product Highlights
- Up to 20 Frames/Second at 1200Ws
- Fast Recycling Time 0.05-0.5 Sec
- Ultra Short Flash Duration 1/12000 Sec
- 10 F-Stop Power Range
- 40°K +/- Stability f/ Full Power Range
- Exposure Stability +/- 1/50 F-Stop
- Built-In Profoto Air Transceiver for RC
- Compatible With All Current ProHeads
- Designed for Use W/Portable Generators
- Auto Multi-Voltage Operation Worldwide
B&H: $10,584.00
I really don't understand "Up to 20 Frames/Second at 1200Ws" with a max recycle time of 0.5 seconds!
Asher
Profoto's Pro-8A 1200 Air Power Pack used in both these instances:
Profoto's Pro-8A
Product Highlights
- Up to 20 Frames/Second at 1200Ws
- Fast Recycling Time 0.05-0.5 Sec
- Ultra Short Flash Duration 1/12000 Sec
- 10 F-Stop Power Range
- 40°K +/- Stability f/ Full Power Range
- Exposure Stability +/- 1/50 F-Stop
- Built-In Profoto Air Transceiver for RC
- Compatible With All Current ProHeads
- Designed for Use W/Portable Generators
- Auto Multi-Voltage Operation Worldwide
B&H: $10,584.00
I really don't understand "Up to 20 Frames/Second at 1200Ws" with a max recycle time of 0.5 seconds!
Asher
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I must say that my first thoughts were that high speed flash was a gimmick or for special unusual circumstances. Now that i'm absorbing the idea of fluidly being able to work with a model, I am getting to think that $10,500 and then some for the lights, is not such a lot for this magic.
So if anyone wants to help a struggling performance art photographer............
I need to light a stage and get 3- 8 key shots in all of about 6 seconds or so. On my battery powered custom Lumedyne system I can shoot 6 lights at 1200 W.S. total, every 2 sec and that I thought was amazingly fast. I'm going to try to get that time down to ~ 1.4 seconds, but really, that requires timing the shot with movement and that's tricky.
I built my setup for shooting from a gallery to light an entire 60ft wide X 50 foot deep stage. Until seeing the Profoto model, it didn't occur to me to use it in my studio for portraits and group shots too. At just 150 W.S. I guess maybe I also I could shoot continuously, perhaps at 2-5 frames/second, but I haven't tried.
Asher
So if anyone wants to help a struggling performance art photographer............
I need to light a stage and get 3- 8 key shots in all of about 6 seconds or so. On my battery powered custom Lumedyne system I can shoot 6 lights at 1200 W.S. total, every 2 sec and that I thought was amazingly fast. I'm going to try to get that time down to ~ 1.4 seconds, but really, that requires timing the shot with movement and that's tricky.
I built my setup for shooting from a gallery to light an entire 60ft wide X 50 foot deep stage. Until seeing the Profoto model, it didn't occur to me to use it in my studio for portraits and group shots too. At just 150 W.S. I guess maybe I also I could shoot continuously, perhaps at 2-5 frames/second, but I haven't tried.
Asher
Sandrine Bascouert
Member
In the of the link provided by Ben, I don't understand why not choose continuous light (such as HMI) I understand the need to make this with still photography for the stop motion "look" but such a waste of energy seems a bit difficult to understand to me. Keep in mind that the last time I used a strobe light was about 20 years ago 
Sandrine Bascouert
Member
That's "hot" one .
Ben Rubinstein
pro member
Asher, why not rent? Not sure if it helps but the strobowhatsit mode on a 580ex (multi) might do exactly what you have in mind, keep it at low power and enough speedlights may provide a more cost effective solution. Other than that, on low power and using a battery pack a speedlight can keep up with 10fps albeit for only a few seconds at a time before they need to be cooled down. The use of high iso to offset low power but still freezing motion using a dark studio does offer up opportunities until present unavailable to all except those with big production budgets in the past.
Sandrine, I have a good idea that profoto pushed that idea or they went to profoto for the funding as it's good PR, the amount of production necessary for a totally unknown band seems way out of range for what I would assume would normally be done to be honest. I have an idea that no one will ever see that music video outside of Profotos marketing of it and that is because they were heavily involved.
Sandrine, I have a good idea that profoto pushed that idea or they went to profoto for the funding as it's good PR, the amount of production necessary for a totally unknown band seems way out of range for what I would assume would normally be done to be honest. I have an idea that no one will ever see that music video outside of Profotos marketing of it and that is because they were heavily involved.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
In the of the link provided by Ben, I don't understand why not choose continuous light (such as HMI) I understand the need to make this with still photography for the stop motion "look" but such a waste of energy seems a bit difficult to understand to me. Keep in mind that the last time I used a strobe light was about 20 years ago
Sandrine,
Bill viola, in the Tradition of Guillaume-Benjamin Duchenne de Boulogne, and artists before and after him, broke down the intimate and transient parts of our emotional expression.
Bill Viola: Quintet of the Astonished
Rear Projection Video, 2000, Artists Proof
A studio strobe or electronic flash does allow such dissection, that continuous light can obscure, unless very fast shutter speed is used. Of course one can up the "ISO" at the expense of degrading somewhat the image.
Asher
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Ben,
Your idea of using electronic flash is great. I started with that, but wanted to have unlimited work times and not worry about overheating. The smaller the space, the more appropriate electronic flash becomes.
However, I have customized my own fast recycling system for stage and the Profoto 8a work pushes me to consider applying to small space work. Renting is out of the question as it's an every week need. I manage on what I have.
Asher
Your idea of using electronic flash is great. I started with that, but wanted to have unlimited work times and not worry about overheating. The smaller the space, the more appropriate electronic flash becomes.
However, I have customized my own fast recycling system for stage and the Profoto 8a work pushes me to consider applying to small space work. Renting is out of the question as it's an every week need. I manage on what I have.
Asher
Ben Rubinstein
pro member
Stop being so modest Asher, buy a small selection, say just a couple of dozen, that should do you and you can lend it to us when you aren't using it!
Sandrine Bascouert
Member
Ok! That makes sense...
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I don't know whether anyone else can go as fast, but I can shoot 600 W.S. at 2 frames per second. and 1200 W.S. every 1.25 sec with my lumedyne system. I will see if we can find out how to go faster!
The Profoto system 8A is looking like a wonderful invention!
Asher
The Profoto system 8A is looking like a wonderful invention!
Asher
Ben Rubinstein
pro member
Which system Asher, 2fps at 600w/s ain't bad at all..
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Well, I've 3 inexpensive Lumedyne packs on top of a super 12 volt battery capable of putting out 1200 amps and have the 3 linked together so they fire together to 3 lights simultaneously.
Still a work in progress!
Asher
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
It may seem strange as to why I'd want a 1200 W.S. to go of every 0.5 second! (so far I'm getting closer to 2 seconds but should be able to do 1.4 seconds with a little repairs. In building a picture of an entire orchestra in formal dress, all bursting with happiness after a great performance to a packed house, one is limited by where one can place oneself and the giant distances, depth and width of a stage.
Having reflectors that project more efficiently and dividing 1200 between 3 lights gives the opportunity to light an entire stage. Then one can take a succession of 3 overlapping pictures of the orchestra as the conductor leads the bow to the great ovation of the delighted house. This way, there are more pixels devoted to each individual musician and so potentially the prints should be really outstanding.
One needs to move very fast. So I have the camera in portrait mode at about 120 mm focal length, and with two quick arcs of the Really Right Stuff gimbal mount, I can accurately get my pictures and the stage will be lit exactly the same for each shot..... well that's the theory.
The other side of my interest is that, now having an ability to rapidly recycle, then at low power, I should be able to dissect expressions while musicians are playing in my studio, This is a totally different use, but one I can get to as I overcome a few more obstacles. My system will take up to 6 lights and is very flexible, but these are still early stages.
Asher
Having reflectors that project more efficiently and dividing 1200 between 3 lights gives the opportunity to light an entire stage. Then one can take a succession of 3 overlapping pictures of the orchestra as the conductor leads the bow to the great ovation of the delighted house. This way, there are more pixels devoted to each individual musician and so potentially the prints should be really outstanding.
One needs to move very fast. So I have the camera in portrait mode at about 120 mm focal length, and with two quick arcs of the Really Right Stuff gimbal mount, I can accurately get my pictures and the stage will be lit exactly the same for each shot..... well that's the theory.
The other side of my interest is that, now having an ability to rapidly recycle, then at low power, I should be able to dissect expressions while musicians are playing in my studio, This is a totally different use, but one I can get to as I overcome a few more obstacles. My system will take up to 6 lights and is very flexible, but these are still early stages.
Asher
Ben Rubinstein
pro member
Why should it be strange Asher? Shooting dancing at a wedding I need a minimum of 1 second recycle time on my strobes, people don't believe you can focus recompose and shoot more than once a second but I've got the dark frames to prove it!
scott kirkpatrick
Member
curtain calls
Asher, shooting a curtain call sounds like an opportunity to try something new. If these were actors at the end of a stage performance, the curtain call would probably have been blocked and would not have anyone holding a pose for 1-2 sec while you swept across. (I agree that an orchestra just might hold its pose for a second or two.) In fact if you could use an old fashioned panoramic camera with a lens that sweeps across you might catch a unison bow as a continuous motion from left to right across the stage. But if your goal is to catch the peak expressions celebrating the end of a successful performance, I would think these peak simultaneously. If you are shooting from the front of the balcony to see down into the full extent of an orchestra on stage, I would expect that an XPan with its normal 45mm lens (and a 66mm wide image frame) would cover nicely. A less exotic solution would be to throw a lot of pixels at the problem -- borrow a MF digital back with 40-64MP for the occasion. Even if the picture ends being a strip with about a 2x1 format, you will still have 30-40 MPx worth of well resolved faces. Then light (only once) as required.
Lighting for dancing at an orthodox Jewish wedding -- there I agree with Beni -- that is sports action shooting!
regards,
scott
Asher, shooting a curtain call sounds like an opportunity to try something new. If these were actors at the end of a stage performance, the curtain call would probably have been blocked and would not have anyone holding a pose for 1-2 sec while you swept across. (I agree that an orchestra just might hold its pose for a second or two.) In fact if you could use an old fashioned panoramic camera with a lens that sweeps across you might catch a unison bow as a continuous motion from left to right across the stage. But if your goal is to catch the peak expressions celebrating the end of a successful performance, I would think these peak simultaneously. If you are shooting from the front of the balcony to see down into the full extent of an orchestra on stage, I would expect that an XPan with its normal 45mm lens (and a 66mm wide image frame) would cover nicely. A less exotic solution would be to throw a lot of pixels at the problem -- borrow a MF digital back with 40-64MP for the occasion. Even if the picture ends being a strip with about a 2x1 format, you will still have 30-40 MPx worth of well resolved faces. Then light (only once) as required.
Lighting for dancing at an orthodox Jewish wedding -- there I agree with Beni -- that is sports action shooting!
regards,
scott
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Scott,
What a great idea! I can do that right now with a 50 mm, in many cases. However, I want more detail in the faces of over 100 people. I plan to be also using an 8x10 when I get the courage! Right now, I simply rotate a 70-20, (zoomed in just to cover stage depth of 40 feet or so), on an accurate Really Right Stuff PG-02 gimbal mount, a (see current thread of Dawid here. However, I would like to get the interval down to 3/4 sec and I'd be fine.
Exactly! I'm slowly considering the new Pentax, but LF 8x10 film might be just glorious. I just have to get the right film!
Asher