We're getting the team back together

[Cem_Usakligil]

​

 

[Asher Kelman]

Cem,

I'm surprised this works so well in color and not as far as I can see in B&W. I wonder why that is?

Asher

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Cem,

I'm surprised this works so well in color and not as far as I can see in B&W. I wonder why that is?

Asher

You know my standpoint on colour vs B&W Asher. For me the colour is the standard, the occasional B&W is the exception that proves the rule.

 

[Asher Kelman]

You know my standpoint on colour vs B&W Asher. For me the colour is the standard, the occasional B&W is the exception that proves the rule.

Well, I'm now reminded, LOL! Our friend, Nicolas Claris feels the same, and very strongly, I guess! Still, I was puzzled since, often one can remap colors to grey scale to able to emphasize or demote elements at a whim. What surprised me was that the picture in B&W, in my hands lacked dimensionality and interest!

Anyway, I showed the original to my son Emile, himself an accomplished photographer. He pointed out that your picture has definite depth levels with a set of people and things of great interest in each successive layer from the bicycles and bags in the front, to the folk sitting and then the racks of cloths in the store and the figure at the back.

The distribution of colors here makes a fundamentally different picture than can I can achieve with B&W and that totally surprised me! Could be that I need a new way of making B&W conversion, but this picture seems to live just in color!

Asher

 

[Doug Kerr]

When I view scenes live, I generally do it in color.

Wonder why that seems to work so well.

Do I need to get a pair of cobalt blue quasi-monochrome glasses for really special scenes?

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Tom dinning]

Is that a cop cap on the black guy?
These might be three prisoners on day release with the cop keeping an eye out.
A comb wouldn't go astray either.
Lots of thinking room here, Cem. You ain't lost your touch for a good photo. Just your weight. Now for the hair.
The absence or presence of colour is to bring about a different response, since colour and tone are decoded in different areas of the brain and thus have different connections and produce different reactions.
One isn't necessarily stronger than the other; just different. Having colour adds another dimension to the image, or, if you like, the removal of colour takes away a dimension.

I'm inclined to go with the addition of colour myself, since we start with nothing and decide to add what we want. I know this isn't the way things are in reality, ie, we see in colour, but with the composition of a photo the addition of colour came later. Its an addition to the process. The photo isn't the reality its a construct. We compose it and colour is one element of composition. We decide on its importance and significance and hense its inclusion or exclusion.

Just my way of looking at things.

Doesn't make a lot of difference in the long run. Its not a fact or truth; just my processing.

Cem, your processing does well enough without changing anything.

I always enjoy your photos. Precise thinking displayed in a fascinating way.

XXX

 

[Asher Kelman]

I doubt that the composition is done in the mind in monochrome, but maybe I am behind in color physiology. I just don't know!

However, what I do strongly believe is that many, if not most, like us, at least on a conscious level, are assuming they're working in color and monochrome NEVER enters into any choice options!

In some pictures, removing color just gets that garish orange umbrella out of the way. Nothing of meaning changed really! It can be nothing to do with anything, except for merely removing a distraction without cloning out the damn thing!

Here, however, the meaning of the picture resides in the color and it's not, to my mind emotive, but highly structural. I would challenge anyone to get as good a picture with the same meaning in monochrome.

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

Is that a cop cap on the black guy?
These might be three prisoners on day release with the cop keeping an eye out.
A comb wouldn't go astray either.

You might be right!

??

Asher

 

[Tom dinning]

I doubt that the composition is done in the mind in monochrome, but maybe I am behind in color physiology. I just don't know!

However, what I do strongly believe is that many, if not most, like us ,at least on a conscious level, are assuming they're working in color and monochrome NEVER enters into any choice options!

In some pictures, removing color just gets that garish orange umbrella out of the way. Nothing of meaning changed really! It can be nothing to do with anything, except for merely removing a distraction without cloning out the damn thing!

Here, however, the meaning of the picture resides in the color and it's not, to my mind emotive, but highly structural. I would challenge anyone to get as good a picture with the same meaning in monochrome.

Asher

I wasn't suggesting some think in B&W. I was stating it as a fact in historical terms. for many, including myself.
Flicking from B&W to colour on a computer or even a camera is easy these days. One can decide to add or subtract.
I do this sometimes when I'm undecided if colour is needed or is it a hindrance to the other elements.

For most part, if its a casual shot of the kids, I am aware that Others want to see the 'reality'so I leave the colour in. Timews when I want a street shot to look oldie-worldie I take the colour out.

Comparing one with the other or presenting a çhallenge to better Cem's shot isn't realloy what its about. Its about accepting Cem's decisions and work with that.
This shot has appeal on many levels to many people and with varying intensities.
For you, there's an annoying component best left out. Unfortunately that's like asking the chef to leave out one of the ingredients.
For me, its a composition that I understand and can strongly relate to. Christine saw it and giggled. It made an instant connection with her but in a different way.

I have incredible respect for your abilities as a photographer, Cem, and for that I allow the compositio9n you present to me to do its thing without making a move to change it just because I'm annoyed at an orange umbrella; which I'm not, by the way. There is a sensitivity in this photo that allows me to see what you see without embellishment. Structured but with a casualness that provided a reality that might otherwise be lost. Everything from the expressions, the eye contact, the framing, the background and the clutter in the foreground provides a compose for thought.

Is it a great picture?

In universal terms, who knows. For me its Cem's picture and thats enough.

 

[Asher Kelman]

[
​

Cem,

When I say I am surprised at how color works here, it's because most pictures can be converted to monochrome for those who like to do that and get an impressive result. What interests me is this picture depends on color in every segment. In fact, what astonishes me is that in some way, you made a pictures where color, and subtle nuances that I don't recognize, are the pictures essential fabric! However, not for causing an emotional response, just make the physicality of the image work as a 3D experience in a 2D plane! I didn't expect that with a group picture of folk outside a store!

Not that I'd ever want you to make this picture in monochrome or I would think it should have been designed that way, just that for color to work in such a unique structural way is, in my experience uncommon.

It could be that your workflow and judgement so enhanced the picture from what came out of the camera, that any other work on it, degrades the picture and it no longer works. I see that we have a lot more to learn, but right now, at least I realize that fact!

Asher

 

[fahim mohammed]

The team gets the 'A' for sure Cem.

Of all of them, I dig the cop.

Best.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Asher, Tom, Doug and Fahim; all thanks for your kind comments.

....Anyway, I showed the original to my son Emile, himself an accomplished photographer. He pointed out that your picture has definite depth levels with a set of people and things of great interest in each successive layer from the bicycles and bags in the front, to the folk sitting and then the racks of cloths in the store and the figure at the back.

The distribution of colors here makes a fundamentally different picture than can I can achieve with B&W and that totally surprised me! Could be that I need a new way of making B&W conversion, but this picture seems to live just in color!..

Please do thank Emile on my behalf for his astute observations.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Cem,

When I say I am surprised at how color works here, it's because most pictures can be converted to monochrome for those who like to do that and get an impressive result. What interests me is this picture depends on color in every segment. In fact, what astonishes me is that in some way, you made a pictures where color, and subtle nuances that I don't recognize, are the pictures essential fabric! However, not for causing an emotional response, just make the physicality of the image work as a 3D experience in a 2D plane! I didn't expect that with a group picture of folk outside a store!

Not that I'd ever want you to make this picture in monochrome or I would think it should have been designed that way, just that for color to work in such a unique structural way is, in my experience uncommon.

It could be that your workflow and judgement so enhanced the picture from what came out of the camera, that any other work on it, degrades the picture and it no longer works. I see that we have a lot more to learn, but right now, at least I realize that fact!

Asher

Thank you very much Asher, I fully understand.