Homes For All

[James Lemon]

 

[Asher Kelman]

James,

This is impressive as a home with heating, a nude foot, a tragedy of our time and photograph that is worthy of our attention.

You have raised the bar in being so disciplined and succinct.

Kudos!

Asher

 

[Tom dinning]

Hi james.
If I were a photographer I would praise you on your astuteness and unusual point of view.
If I were a casual observer with a soft heart I might feel for the rest of the body.
If I were a do-gooder I would comment on the state of society that allows such things to be common place.
If I were a cynic I'd probably suggest that such obscenities should be removed from our streets.
If I were me I'd probably ask if this isn't exploitation of someone in a less fortunate position for the sake of a photo which will be praised by friends and colleagues.
But it's possible that I am none of the above, or possibly all of the above.
Can we play the hand that suits us and ignore the cards that others hold?

 

[Asher Kelman]

Does it matter if one takes this picture to show one's prowess as a photographer?

Really, not! This shows how bleak our society can be and that is holding a necessary lantern to see ourselves better.

We are all self-deriving to some extent. I would rather one hitches a good deed to conceit that just walk by and not tell anyone!

Asher

 

[Tom dinning]

It has not gone unnoticed that the box previous inhabitant was a piece of fine furniture from a highly industrial country which has had its own share of political turmoil, the standard of measurements indicate US place of sale or possibly Canada with the addition of French in the labeling. This box has had a long journey.
A consequence of any photo is to open our minds, not to close them. James's photo has many layers, each as a result of his astuteness and our own perception.
How delightful it is to see a well executed image and allow the possibilities to burst into light.

 

[Michael_Stones]

It has not gone unnoticed that the box previous inhabitant was a piece of fine furniture from a highly industrial country which has had its own share of political turmoil, the standard of measurements indicate US place of sale or possibly Canada with the addition of French in the labeling. This box has had a long journey.
A consequence of any photo is to open our minds, not to close them. James's photo has many layers, each as a result of his astuteness and our own perception.
How delightful it is to see a well executed image and allow the possibilities to burst into light.

Not a bad deduction, Tom, so let's continue the tale. Canada is the likely point of distribution for a 3-drawer office desk with metal legs, made in Taiwan for an American company. This piece of 'fine furniture" is available in box stores selling office supplies, and also online. These conclusions about the former content of the box shed light on ... are necessary because ... divert attention from ... Hell, I dunno, buddy, can you tell me? ?
Cheers, Mike.

 

[Michael_Stones]

Does it matter if one takes this picture to show one's prowess as a photographer?

Really, not! This shows how bleak our society can be and that is holding a necessary lantern to see ourselves better.

We are all self-deriving to some extent. I would rather one hitches a good deed to conceit that just walk by and not tell anyone!

Asher

Four thoughts about this.
First, James definitely shows his prowess as a photographer.
Second, the photo has no educational value whatsoever to anyone not blind to life in a city.
Third, taking a photo of a foot is no more a good deed than walking on by.
Fourth, James may have staged the photo to fool us all; if so, I applaud him.
Cheers, Mike.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Four thoughts about this.
First, James definitely shows his prowess as a photographer.
Second, the photo has no educational value whatsoever to anyone not blind to life in a city.
Third, taking a photo of a foot is no more a good deed than walking on by.
Fourth, James may have staged the photo to fool us all; if so, I applaud him.
Cheers, Mike.

Michael,

You might be very surprised if you'd test colleagues and walk by an area where folk sleep in darkened doorways. I've passed them when going to a scientific convention in big cities, getting back to the hotel at night. I've asked my comrades what they'd just seen. But no one, not even these trained observers has noticed a mother with a child sleeping in a doorway we passed together!

I think it's part of the way the brain copes with a deluge of incoming sensory data. An example is when driving home, much of the work is done without us really thinking much. We do check for kids darting out between cars, but it's all done without much attention by our conscious mind. We suppress a lot of information or we'd be forced to pull over to the side of the road to take a rest from mental exhaustion, LOL!

So likely as not, when we pass such a box over an exhaust grill, we'd just make sure we got around it, but few would see the foot! Even then, less would bother to stop as there's a fear of getting involved as this would require a social response.

So I do think James does serve a purpose to remind us of the plight of the homeless, a growing phenomenon in the USA since Nixon closed many of the mental health programs that often cared for a fair fraction of the people who now find themselves on the streets.

There's no blood or gore in the picture, just a clean composition and it is sufficient to get our attention.

Perhaps when a political movement needs support, next time there might be a few more backers!

Asher

 

[Dave Butcher]

Michael,

You might be very surprised if you'd test colleagues and walk by an area where folk sleep in darkened doorways. I've passed them when going to a scientific convention in big cities, getting back to the hotel at night. I've asked my comrades what they'd just seen. But no one, not even these trained observers has noticed a mother with a child sleeping in a doorway we passed together!

I think it's part of the way the brain copes with a deluge of incoming sensory data. An example is when driving home, much of the work is done without us really thinking much. We do check for kids darting out between cars, but it's all done without much attention by our conscious mind. We suppress a lot of information or we'd be forced to pull over to the side of the road to take a rest from mental exhaustion, LOL!

So likely as not, when we pass such a box over an exhaust grill, we'd just make sure we got around it, but few would see the foot! Even then, less would bother to stop as there's a fear of getting involved as this would require a social response.

So I do think James does serve a purpose to remind us of the plight of the homeless, a growing phenomenon in the USA since Nixon closed many of the mental health programs that often cared for a fair fraction of the people who now find themselves on the streets.

There's no blood or gore in the picture, just a clean composition and it is sufficient to get our attention.

Perhaps when a political movement needs support, next time there might be a few more backers!

Asher

You are very right Asher. Here in Las Vegas you see people at a lot of the street corners with signs begging for money and unfortunately we end up getting immune to seeing them.

 

[Michael_Stones]

Michael,

You might be very surprised if you'd test colleagues and walk by an area where folk sleep in darkened doorways. I've passed them when going to a scientific convention in big cities, getting back to the hotel at night. I've asked my comrades what they'd just seen. But no one, not even these trained observers has noticed a mother with a child sleeping in a doorway we passed together!

I think it's part of the way the brain copes with a deluge of incoming sensory data. An example is when driving home, much of the work is done without us really thinking much. We do check for kids darting out between cars, but it's all done without much attention by our conscious mind. We suppress a lot of information or we'd be forced to pull over to the side of the road to take a rest from mental exhaustion, LOL!

So likely as not, when we pass such a box over an exhaust grill, we'd just make sure we got around it, but few would see the foot! Even then, less would bother to stop as there's a fear of getting involved as this would require a social response.

So I do think James does serve a purpose to remind us of the plight of the homeless, a growing phenomenon in the USA since Nixon closed many of the mental health programs that often cared for a fair fraction of the people who now find themselves on the streets.

There's no blood or gore in the picture, just a clean composition and it is sufficient to get our attention.

Perhaps when a political movement needs support, next time there might be a few more backers!

Asher

You are very right Asher. Here in Las Vegas you see people at a lot of the street corners with signs begging for money and unfortunately we end up getting immune to seeing them.

Your observations are correct, Asher, Dave, but I think they make us complacent about photographs that hinder the advancement of humanitarian goals. It's unsurprising that photojournalists promote examples of photographs that advanced such goals. They famously point to Dorothea Lange's Migrant Mother and Nick Ut's Napalmed Girl, to name but two examples. But consider the context and targets of these photos. For most viewers, the contexts were negative (Depression era poverty; the Vietnam war) and the targets innocent victims. How else could viewers react but with heightened outrage about the context?

Photographs of street people have a different arrangement for context and target. The context is not the cause of the target's behaviour but merely its location. Viewers evaluate street people as negative (e.g., feared objects, to use Asher's example) or neutral (i.e., with compassion). So I'll ask you this question: does a photograph of a negative or neutral target behaving in a negative way (e.g., asleep on the street) strengthen or weaken negative stereotyping of that target?

The answer from studies in social psychology is that two negatives generally do not make a positive. Negative information about a neutral or negatively perceived target do nothing to counter negative evaluations. On the other hand, positive information about that target reduces negative evaluations.

Academic studies aside, let me briefly comment on the depiction of homeless people in the city where I live. The following example is just one of many with a similar orientation. Before becoming a Federal Government Cabinet Minister last fall, the administrator of the Homeless Shelter wrote periodic articles for the regional newspaper about the Shelter's residents. These articles humanized the residents for readers. They showed the residents to be just like the rest of us, with hopes and dreams, neither to be feared nor despised. Consequently, it is unsurprising that fund-raising for the Shelter does well, volunteers are plentiful, and the atmosphere within the facility is relaxed and happy much of the time. The positive portrayals really did promote kindlier perceptions and treatment of residents.

A main point from this brief academic and anecdotal overview is that information which humanizes street people reduces negative stereotyping and may promote positive behaviour on their behalf. I think that stories generally get a humanizing message across more effectively than photos. The converse is that information which does nothing to humanize street people does nothing to change negative attitudes but may dehumanize them further. A photo that reduces a person to a foot is a prime example.

Finally, I make no pretence to expertise on ethics or photography here. The preceding comments describe just one facet of my thinking.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Well Michael,

You have got me think as to how one could reshoot such pictures in a way to show the humanity of the person and so elevate their status.

I think that a homeless person helping an old lady get up from the ground or lift a car from a trapped cyclist is what might work!

Now how do we stage that and how do we dleiver the car with no engine so as to make it liftable by our hero?

Asher

 

[Tom dinning]

Well put, Michael.
The challenge as Asher has accepted is to change the emphasis.
My Father was renown for speaking and helping the homeless in Sydney, much to the annoyance of my mother. He knew the names of many of these people and as poor as he was himself, would always have an offering and a word for someone sleeping under the Sydney Morning Herald, a broadsheet newspaper most favoured by the down and out, but only for sleeping under.
His gentle manner with such people penetrated deeply into my psych and I gained a strong positive attitude to the life and despair of street people, much to the annoyance of my wife, who suffers from high level OCD.
The first step is always to see people in despair as PEOPLE. Then to let the surroundings speak for them. I often use images in class to demonstrate reactions from the passers by. Its a guilt trip I like to take the class on from time to time. Then to accompany the image with a story gathered at the time. I know the image should stand alone for some but some days I go with the flow of the discussion.
Being judgemental isn't always a good start to a conversation but it can open the eyes of others to our bigotry.

 

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Michael,

Thank you.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Antonio Correia]

James... what photograph !... what a message !...

Very effective and clear message !

Great work !

 

[James Lemon]

" The whole point of taking pictures is so that you don't have to explain things with words."- Elliott Erwitt​

 

[Michael_Stones]

The challenge as Asher has accepted is to change the emphasis....

The first step is always to see people in despair as PEOPLE. Then to let the surroundings speak for them. I often use images in class to demonstrate reactions from the passers by. Its a guilt trip I like to take the class on from time to time. Then to accompany the image with a story gathered at the time. I know the image should stand alone for some but some days I go with the flow of the discussion.

Fully agree, Tom, the first step is to view people through a humanitarian lens. The idea of using passer-by behaviour as a photo's target with street people as context is a clever educational tactic that never crossed my mind before. Like you, I find that discussion enhances the information provided by a photo. By the way, your description really made me like your Dad a lot ?

James... what photograph !... what a message !...
Very effective and clear message !
Great work !

What message would that be, Antonio? I admire the artistry but missed the message.

You have got me thinking as to how one could reshoot such pictures in a way to show the humanity of the person and so elevate their status.
I think that a homeless person helping an old lady get up from the ground or lift a car from a trapped cyclist is what might work!
Now how do we stage that and how do we deliver the car with no engine so as to make it lift-able by our hero? [Bold added by Mike.

Hmm! If stage means fake, don't go down that path, Asher. Naught but unadorned truth shalt set thou free, as a former Nottinghamshire Luddite would say. ? What I’d do is to engage the target person to discover personal attributes that the intended audience could relate to (e.g., viewers, listeners, readers). Talk to that person; buy him/her a coffee, whatever. If that’s not possible, walk away. Were such interaction to occur, however, limitations to the quality of what emerged would owe to my meagre technical and communicative skills. Those skills relate more to telling a story than taking a picture because the former better gets a meaningful message across. What I would never do is knowingly demean someone (or a category of people) merely to impress lovers of art.

If that last sentence sounds harsh, the reasons include personal ones. When aged a little over four years old, my parents took me to a studio to have my portrait taken. Here’s a photo of that nearly 60-year-old photo. It’s lasted well, hasn’t it.

Notice that I look eagerly at the camera. What for? The photographer told me a birdie would fly out of the lens. I’m waiting (still waiting, 60 years later) for that birdie to emerge. What was that all about? That photographer lied, of course! There was no birdie in the camera. What’s worse, Dad didn’t punish him for telling a lie. I saw Mum laughing, too, part of the conspiracy. What I learned at this early age was that photographers are ringleaders among liars, morally defunct people that take advantage even of innocent children. ?

Tom Dinning signs himself Saint Tom of the Outback. ? I proved back then that I could spot a sinner when I saw one. So should Tom and I found a church together? ?

" The whole point of taking pictures is so that you don't have to explain things with words."- Elliott Erwitt​

Now you qualify to join our church, too, James.?

 

[James Lemon]

Fully agree, Tom, the first step is to view people through a humanitarian lens. The idea of using passer-by behaviour as a photo's target with street people as context is a clever educational tactic that never crossed my mind before. Like you, I find that discussion enhances the information provided by a photo. By the way, your description really made me like your Dad a lot



What message would that be, Antonio? I admire the artistry but missed the message.



Hmm! If stage means fake, don't go down that path, Asher. Naught but unadorned truth shalt set thou free, as a former Nottinghamshire Luddite would say. What I’d do is to engage the target person to discover personal attributes that the intended audience could relate to (e.g., viewers, listeners, readers). Talk to that person; buy him/her a coffee, whatever. If that’s not possible, walk away. Were such interaction to occur, however, limitations to the quality of what emerged would owe to my meagre technical and communicative skills. Those skills relate more to telling a story than taking a picture because the former better gets a meaningful message across. What I would never do is knowingly demean someone (or a category of people) merely to impress lovers of art.

If that last sentence sounds harsh, the reasons include personal ones. When aged a little over four years old, my parents took me to a studio to have my portrait taken. Here’s a photo of that nearly 60-year-old photo. It’s lasted well, hasn’t it.

Notice that I look eagerly at the camera. What for? The photographer told me a birdie would fly out of the lens. I’m waiting (still waiting, 60 years later) for that birdie to emerge. What was that all about? That photographer lied, of course! There was no birdie in the camera. What’s worse, Dad didn’t punish him for telling a lie. I saw Mum laughing, too, part of the conspiracy. What I learned at this early age was that photographers are ringleaders among liars, morally defunct people that take advantage even of innocent children.

Tom Dinning signs himself Saint Tom of the Outback. I proved back then that I could spot a sinner when I saw one. So should Tom and I found a church together?



Now you qualify to join our church, too, James.

Michael

I don't mind you sharing your opinion's but I don't appreciate you posting pictures in my thread.

Best, regards
James

 

[Asher Kelman]

We have not made rules for that. But, "Homes for all" might be interpreted las an invitation to post in like manner!

Are their conventions. Well, I would not like such additional pictures in my thread on Marcia and La Larva or my Golden Leaves.

Still how do we mark out our territory?

"My leaves" seems too personal as they just fell from the tree.

Perhaps we should assume all threads are for one person's work unless we PM to get the OK or else there's an obvious invite to participate with pictures.

Asher

 

[James Lemon]

We have not made rules for that. But, "Homes for all" might be interpreted las an invitation to post in like manner!

Are their conventions. Well, I would not like such additional pictures in my thread on Marcia and La Larva or my Golden Leaves.

Still how do we mark out our territory?

"My leaves" seems too personal as they just fell from the tree.

Perhaps we should assume all threads are for one person's work unless we PM to get the OK or else there's an obvious invite to participate with pictures.

Asher

Homes for All would be a logical solution to homelessness and a reference to providing shelter.

However many insist on discussing things outside the frame.

James

 

[Asher Kelman]

Homes for All would be a logical solution to homelessness and a reference to providing shelter.

However many insist on discussing things outside the frame.

James

But who's pictures? What is the structure of the frame once discussion reaches into questions of photographer's intent, how the community might respond to this provocative image and more!

Some leeway here, encourages folk to add their own related stories and this expand on the interest. That we we get a rich and very popular thread. We like to encourage participation, not inhibit it. Now you "rang the church bell, so to speak and folk responded with passion.

Michael Stone, otherwise known in the University circles and his colleagues as Professor Stone, has a great store of expertise to share on the subject of homeless man. Michael was showing how the photographer's intent can screw up the value of a picture when it's dishonest, as in really tricking someone by lying to them.

It is connected to how we relate to the question of "truth". So it is relevant to the question of whether or not you paid a fellow to take his shoe an sock off and covered him with your cardboard or whether you observed and photographed. Of course, you did the latter, but we were considering how to go beyond this first level of observation to delivering an idea, not only of the tragedy of such littering of folk like trash of society, but to restore the feeling of their worth and humanity.

I think, in all seriousness, your thread is done us a great service by using your remarkable picture as a springboard to figuring out how to better express homelessness, exclusion from the "successful" working society in a way to have people motivated not just by shame, but also by brotherhood and fellowship!

They are us. That is what we must show. If doing that trespasses on your thread in the process, is it any different that breaking into a home to rescue someone from a fire?

Surely there are degrees of trespass.

But you yourself can decide what seems to be right, once your picture has drawn first-responders to your call!

You said you "don't mind" Michael's comments. "Mind"? I would feel honored, privileged and thrilled! Imagine the opposite, as follows some of my photographs, zip, nothing, total lack of response! I look at the picture confused as I know it's pretty damn good.....

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

I am proud to see your picture and that it gets the response it did.

Asher

 

[James Lemon]

But who's pictures? What is the structure of the frame once discussion reaches into questions of photographer's intent, how the community might respond to this provocative image and more!

Some leeway here, encourages folk to add their own related stories and this expand on the interest. That we we get a rich and very popular thread. We like to encourage participation, not inhibit it. Now you "rang the church bell, so to speak and folk responded with passion.

Michael Stone, otherwise known in the University circles and his colleagues as Professor Stone, has a great store of expertise to share on the subject of homeless man. Michael was showing how the photographer's intent can screw up the value of a picture when it's dishonest, as in really tricking someone by lying to them.

It is connected to how we relate to the question of "truth". So it is relevant to the question of whether or not you paid a fellow to take his shoe an sock off and covered him with your cardboard or whether you observed and photographed. Of course, you did the latter, but we were considering how to go beyond this first level of observation to delivering an idea, not only of the tragedy of such littering of folk like trash of society, but to restore the feeling of their worth and humanity.

I think, in all seriousness, your thread is done us a great service by using your remarkable picture as a springboard to figuring out how to better express homelessness, exclusion from the "successful" working society in a way to have people motivated not just by shame, but also by brotherhood and fellowship!

They are us. That is what we must show. If doing that trespasses on your thread in the process, is it any different that breaking into a home to rescue someone from a fire?

Surely there are degrees of trespass.

But you yourself can decide what seems to be right, once your picture has drawn first-responders to your call!

You said you "don't mind" Michael's comments. "Mind"? I would feel honored, privileged and thrilled! Imagine the opposite, as follows some of my photographs, zip, nothing, total lack of response! I look at the picture confused as I know it's pretty damn good.....

Asher

I appreciate the generous comments but I am not interested in some voodoo conspiracy theory from the dark ages.

James

 

[Tom dinning]

'I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours' was a common line of communication when I was younger.

Seems to have worked for photography as well.

I much prefer the 'this is what I did' than 'this is what you should have done' approach.
People are very possessive of their assumed space. They will allow others only so much interference or permit entry under guarded watch. Words seem to be OK unless they deviate from what is expected, whatever that might mean. 'Pissing in the pool' seems to be frowned upon. The mention of religion, aliens and politics brings down the curtains. Left and right of centre is left right out.
I'm beginning to wonder what remains in the discussion possibilities.

People mean no harm. They have their ideas, mad crazy as they might seem, and it's only a chat among friends after all.

Join the party. Next time someone pisses in your post, thank them for the effort then tell them to piss off.

To be honest, the only thing that attracts me to OPF is the conversations around the photograph as compared to 'on' the photograph, the exchange of ideas in such passionate voices and the twaddle some people espouse as fact or truth.

And sometimes the photograph.

Xxx

 

[Michael_Stones]

Michael

I don't mind you sharing your opinion's but I don't appreciate you posting pictures in my thread.

Best, regards
James

We have not made rules for that....

Perhaps we should assume all threads are for one person's work unless we PM to get the OK or else there's an obvious invite to participate with pictures.

Asher

A procedural point: A June 2009 sticky under the OPF Look, Feel, and Vibe section provides Current Guidelines for Posting Images.

1. Post 1-4 related images. Your very best! (Don't only link to your site).

2. See if you can find an existing thread.

3. Introduce your images. Is there a question?

4. Give feedback too!

The second guideline encourages (without qualification) the posting of images within a existing thread.

No need to say more.

Cheers, Mike.

 

[Tom dinning]

A procedural point: A June 2009 sticky under the OPF Look, Feel, and Vibe section provides Current Guidelines for Posting Images.

1. Post 1-4 related images. Your very best! (Don't only link to your site).

2. See if you can find an existing thread.

3. Introduce your images. Is there a question?

4. Give feedback too!

The second guideline encourages (without qualification) the posting of images within a existing thread.

No need to say more.

Cheers, Mike.

One more thing, Mike.
"I told you so!" I get it here at home all the time.
Or as my grand-daughter would say: "Na na na na na!!"