stiched vertical Pano with hdr

[Klaus Esser]

Hi!

This is a vertical panorama stitched from 12 shots in 4 rows of RAW.
Canon 20D/Nikon200/Manfrotto PanoHead SPH modyfied.

 

[Marian Howell]

impressive stitch klaus!! and you hdr-ed this as well?! alot of work.
that car in the lower left puts the size and perspective nicely in context. i find the center red+white post and the rails in the lower right to be distracting in their leanings. and while i think in this web version the sky could use some blending, i've discovered that sky blends that look visible in the web are of no importance when blown up and printed to good size, so that might not be an issue with this
how big will you print this???

 

[Sean DeMerchant]

Hi!

This is a vertical panorama stitched from 12 shots in 4 rows of RAW.
Canon 20D/Nikon200/Manfrotto PanoHead SPH modyfied.

What order did you process this in? Did you stitch then do an HDR merge or did you do the HDR and then stitch the images together?

I ask as I am concerned that doing the stitching first might yield unregisterable images (due to automated perspective corrections).

The image itself is interesting. Albeit, there seems to be some some sort of distortion in the final image as the leading vertical line at center curves to the right as one moves up and I am curious how to best correct this when one has multiple stages (HDR & stitch) requiring image alignment.

thanks,

Sean

 

[Klaus Esser]

Marian, Sean!

Thanks for your comments. I first did hdr and stitched afterwards.
It´s a planar-projection via the editor of Autopano Pro.
The picture´s size is about 0,70x2,20m at 200dpi.
It´s not yet finalized for printing - i´ll do a geometrical check before that. And the colors may be worked over too . .

best, klaus

 

[Asher Kelman]

Klaus, was this hand held? I see the answer, Manfrotto.

I think even hand held the lines are so definite, the stich could be perfect too.


Asher

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

WOW! Love it! Feels as if you stand in front of a ocean liner.

Klaus, you say modified manfrotto, in what way modified? See, I had a bad experience lately with a panorama, and I figured the problem now, it was only the second time I tried a Pano, hence the disappointment.

I also use 303SPHPlus including the 5 degrees leveling section. Now I went out and leveled it, then extended the middle section of the tripod to the mamximum, so I shot overhead so to speak. Back home I started processing 32 images each shot with 3x exposure bracketing=96 Tiff's, developed them in Raw and created for each of the brackets 1 HDR ending up with 32 HDR's.

Then stitched them, only to find out that the last 3 or so where of axis. _______ fill in foul language! <grins>

So what I wonder is this, I adjust the horizontal level, but somehow I fail to see how I can adjust the the vertikal to ensure on a 360 degree turn to be on axis all the time.

I know it sounds stupid, but as you may imagine, the proceedure and processing was labour intense, and the result was for the trash. Is there a Manfrotto addition that helps to level the verticakl for 360 degree shots? How do you do it?

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Then stitched them, only to find out that the last 3 or so where of axis.

What do you mean by "of axis"?

Is it that the starting and ending images of the 360 degree FOV do not connect vertically, or is it something else?

So what I wonder is this, I adjust the horizontal level, but somehow I fail to see how I can adjust the the vertikal to ensure on a 360 degree turn to be on axis all the time.

There will always be a small inaccuracy when using spirit levels, either by our judgement or by mounting tolerances of the level itself. It should not be much of an issue for the software, it just needs to add 'a small rotation' to all images, or to the less well registered one(s).

Bart

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

What do you mean by "of axis"?Is it that the starting and ending images of the 360 degree FOV do not connect vertically, or is it something else?
There will always be a small inaccuracy when using spirit levels, either by our judgement or by mounting tolerances of the level itself. It should not be much of an issue for the software, it just needs to add 'a small rotation' to all images, or to the less well registered one(s).

Hello Bart,

Yeah well, the vertical was not leveled apparently enough. I have one spirit level where you look down to, so this I call horizontal level, but I do not have a way to check the vertical, or I misunderstand something fundamentally. It was so much of level that the stitching software made a mess. From memory I would say that probably the 5 last pictures where of level, and the rest were ok, I suppose I could have cropped and handmanipulate it, but this would have taken a long time.

See, from a practical point of view.... I point -S- and look at my level, it is fine, then I rotate to -W- and it is still fine, further to -N- and let's say it is of level.... So I would need a way to be able to comfortably level the vertical and the horizontal to ensure it is all right even on 360 degree movements high over my head.

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Hello Bart,

Yeah well, the vertical was not leveled apparently enough. I have one spirit level where you look down to, so this I call horizontal level, but I do not have a way to check the vertical, or I misunderstand something fundamentally. It was so much of level that the stitching software made a mess. From memory I would say that probably the 5 last pictures where of level, and the rest were ok, I suppose I could have cropped and handmanipulate it, but this would have taken a long time.

I'll restate in my own words, to make sure we understand each other.

The spirit level you look down on, can be circular (bull's-eye), linear (single rotation axis) , or crossed linear (dual-axis). The circular or the crossed levels can be used for leveling the base/plane of rotation. It is typically positioned between the tripod and the camera mount (or e.g. ballhead). The actual rotation is done by the camera mount (e.g. panning base of a ballhead), on the top of a so called leveling base (e.g. from Acratech or Manfrotto). Once leveled, one can extend the tripod column because the plane of rotation is unaffected, it is just translated to another height (unless it can also be rotated, which is bad for the intended purpose). The leveling will rarely be perfect, but close enough to reduce non-matching start and ending images (which also can be perfected with the stitching software by fine-tuning the roll parameters for all of the images).

Now, due to additional inaccuracies in the camera mounting construction (on top of the leveled plane of rotation), it can happen that the final optical axis is still not exactly horizontal. The most accurate detection for that is by using a clear dual axis level in the camera hotshoe, and rotating the camera. Any imperfection detected there will result in a wobble/wave image pattern as you rotate 360 degrees. That also can be minimized by the stitching software, it just needs to adjust the assumed horizon/pitch parameters.

It does depend on the software whether the per image roll and pitch parameters can be fine-tuned.

Bart

 

[Asher Kelman]

Bart you have said it well.

Let me add. Each joint above the tripod bas either play or is not true.

There is also some looseness, ie "play" on the manfortto extention plate and also on the Arca Swiss join. As you turn the equipment can sag a little one way or another, esp[ecially if something is actually loose.

Check your tripod feet are full out and on stable ground. The legs must be securely locked. Same with all joints up to the camera.

A grid on your viewfinder screen will help you recongnize that your verticals or true. You can move the camera around the optical axis before taking any pictures and confirm that the verticals remain true. Use a cord for shutter release. Treat the camera as if it is fragile as you rotate.

Something is really off for you to end up with a faulty stitch since we can often do a great job by hand.

Also in the software, there should be a capability of selecting common points and/verticals that would help the software align correctly.

Asher

 

[Klaus Esser]

Hi Bear!

here´s a screenshot of the vertical line tool. You just draw a line along the vertical you wanbt to correct. Can be a number of verticals. APP does a correction regarding the lines you draw and adjusts the whole picture. Works great!

best, Klaus

 

[Michael Fontana]

Klaus, you' re right; APP is very good!

I gave it another try with 3 shots; macro 50 mm on FF.
It was hendheld, which is not to much a problem, beeing far away from the bridge:

BTW, this is a new 250 m long pedestrian/bike bridge between France (left) to Germany; the shots were made from Switzerland ;-)

 

[Michael Fontana]

Klaus

now I tried a single-row, 5 shot (vert) pano, with my distagon 35/2.8, which has less distortion/better contrast than the distagon 28. Looks pretty good, and APP has some really good features and is FAST, compared to other stich-apps.

Even I guessed the nodal point only, (by eye!!) and shot quick and dirt camera-jpgs, without any edits at all, it looks promising:

That' s 70 cm x 46cm at 300 dpi, having about the angle of a 24 mm on FF, unstitched.

I used the cylindrical projection and converted it into a "normal" with the panotool plugin "Remap" from kekus.
This looks better to me than the Planar projection, right out of APP. What do you think?

I'll get that bloody stitching app ;-)

 

[Rob Riley]

beautiful vertical pano Klaus
sorta reminds me of when i went boating last though ...

 

[Klaus Esser]

Klaus

now I tried a single-row, 5 shot (vert) pano, with my distagon 35/2.8, which has less distortion/better contrast than the distagon 28. Looks pretty good, and APP has some really good features and is FAST, compared to other stich-apps.

Even I guessed the nodal point only, (by eye!!) and shot quick and dirt camera-jpgs, without any edits at all, it looks promising:

That' s 70 cm x 46cm at 300 dpi, having about the angle of a 24 mm on FF, unstitched.

I used the cylindrical projection and converted it into a "normal" with the panotool plugin "Remap" from kekus.
This looks better to me than the Planar projection, right out of APP. What do you think?

I'll get that bloody stitching app ;-)

hey Michael!

Welcome to the club!

I didn´t try the "Remap" plugin. Will check it. Planarprojection always is a problem - just as it is with shift/tilt with wideangles. Depends on the angle and the amount of correction. Panotools are working with very good algorithms.

Here´s a 110degree planprojection from APP:
http://www.klausesser.de/Efeu.htm
and here a 360dgree vr from APP:
http://www.klausesser.de/Stadttor.htm

best, Klaus

 

[Klaus Esser]

beautiful vertical pano Klaus
sorta reminds me of when i went boating last though ...

Thanks, Rob! I have another one - more "boat-like":

best, Klaus

 

[Klaus Esser]

Michael - is that your studio? Looks fine!

best, Klaus

 

[Michael Fontana]

yep, how can you tell?
Did yaa see any cam inside?

I should paint the door in a other color. The good thing: it's facing north; plus 3 stairs from home to the studio. You actually can see one pole of the balcony;
I'm living at the third floor and finished, a week ago, the remolding of the corridor:

 

[Klaus Esser]

"yep, how can you tell?
Did yaa see any cam inside? "

the kind of building and the windows - i had a such a kind of studio some years ago in Düsselsorf

best, Klaus

 

[Michael Fontana]

Meanwhile I wait to get the license key from Autopano, I made some other tests, that time with the 50 mm macro on FF. Just to see the importance of the lens quality, as it has less distortions, than the distagon 35...

Would it be better to get these, even minimal distortions corrected; prior to stitch it in APP?

How is that vertical-lines tool used?
1st. drawing line, then pressing "enter"key will not work. Any shortcuts?

Here too, Panotools remap works fine, after producing a cylindrical projection.
It's calculating a double row, right now....

ok, looks pretty fine - I had guessed the nodal point only, so it's not perfect; but optimising that will make it better...

 

[Michael Fontana]

Klaus, good morning

how critical are interior stitches, flat ones or QTVR?

I'm tempted to use it for some shots of (art) installations. These are spread out on all 4 walls, and the floor/celing as well, in small rooms. I fear it might be difficult to translate the feeling, one has standing in these rooms, by using just normal, unstitched shots.

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

OMG <blush> Hehehe, sorry for the "somewhat" late reply and thank you very much in deed Bart and Asher and Klaus for your answers.

Firstly, yes it is a bullseye level, and I think to solve this problem of setting up the tripod and head as accurate as possible Bart's suggestion of that 2-axis-hotshoe-level is the solution. I never saw this before, seems to be the thing to get!

See, I set it up somewhere in the dunes and look onto that bullseye level, adjust it, then check by rotating the camera and while moving may be 180 degrees it is of level again, hence this means the tripod does not stand right and I have to shorten one leg for example. But with a 2 axis level you can do that probably much quicker. Thanks so much! I know it seems like a stupid problem, but it can be nervewrecking when you deal with uneven grounds most of the time.

@Klaus, thanks very much! I never heard about that software before, looks pretty advanced and well worth the money.

 

[Klaus Esser]

Klaus, good morning

how critical are interior stitches, flat ones or QTVR?

I'm tempted to use it for some shots of (art) installations. These are spread out on all 4 walls, and the floor/celing as well, in small rooms. I fear it might be difficult to translate the feeling, one has standing in these rooms, by using just normal, unstitched shots.

Hello, Michael!

Here´s an example of a spherical pano in a very narrow space:
http://www.klausesser.de/VinKugelH.mov


best, Klaus

 

[Michael Fontana]

Very nice, Klaus!
In these narrow spaces, it would be very hard with a "normal" single shot, only.

This morning, I precised the nodal point, and managed to get rid of the distortions - in the flat, planar image; 5 shots, one row only. Looks much better now, and could convert it into a partial QTVR; how do you do that task? I'm aware that you made a speherical one. I didn't found that feature in APP....

 

[Klaus Esser]

Very nice, Klaus!
In these narrow spaces, it would be very hard with a "normal" single shot, only.

This morning, I precised the nodal point, and managed to get rid of the distortions - in the flat, planar image; 5 shots, one row only. Looks much better now, and could convert it into a partial QTVR; how do you do that task? I'm aware that you made a speherical one. I didn't found that feature in APP....

Hi Michael!

APP doesn´t care about spherical or not! The only shortcome in it is the lack of supporting fisheyes. That comes wit the next update (there´s legal stuff).

I did this pano with a 20mmNikon on a 20DCanon and a 3-step dri. About 60shot for pano x 3exp. for DRI. With a fisheye it´s 8 panoshots . . . . for each cube-side one shot.

Here´s a very good description:
http://www.fromparis.com/html/technical_us_create_a_quicktime_vr_in_10mnts.php

The absolute need to do spherical panos is a well adjusteted "Nodal"-head. Stitching is more easy and more precise with such a head - though it generally CAN work even handheld.

best, Klaus

 

[Michael Fontana]

thanks, Klaus

yeah, I remember, that legal stuff was some years ago, when someone captured Helmut Dersch's idea and gave it to a lawyer...

at the moment rendering in APP a 700 MB-file, and using a very good quality, so it takes a while, even on a Quad with 8 GB of Rams and a dedicated scratch disc.

I'm impressd with APP, thanks for pointing to it.

 

[Michael Fontana]

You' re right, Klaus, lens kwality is important:
Here's a single-row-stitch:

This morning, I made the first 3 row, 5 images, each, but there is some ghosting, look at the crop @ 100 %.
The nodal point not beeing as precise as required?

 

[Klaus Esser]

You' re right, Klaus, lens kwality is important:
"Here's a single-row-stitch:"
This morning, I made the first 3 row, 5 images, each, but there is some ghosting, look at the crop @ 100 %.
The nodal point not beeing as precise as required?

Michael - this i call a good lens . . (single-row) - which was ist? Your Zeiss?

I guess it was the alignment of NP in your second picture. Especially in narrow spaces it´s most important to align very exactly.

btw.: i enjoyed seeing your vinyl-records as well as seeing your old Mac! My wife has one even a bit older: a 512k with one singlesided floppy and keyboard without numberblock.
No way to attach a hd . .

best, Klaus

P.S.: you can try to work on ghosting by manually correct the control-points.
See here - good forum - and the constantly developing APP-Wiki:

http://forum.autopano.net/

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

<scratching head> where do you see ghosting? I looked at your crop but I do not what you think to be wrong.

 

[Michael Fontana]

Good morning, George,

the ghosting is in the appartement shot - at the top left, a 100%-crop, aka the stereo.

I tested the entire weekend - with different lenses - and might show some insights, if someone is interestet in it.
I'll probably have two set-ups:

A quick and dirty-one, single-row, with the zuiko 21, for getting more angle.
A pixelpeeping one, with the distagon 28, for lots of MP.