Noam Chomsky: Understanding Power

[Georg R. Baumann]

Greetings,

http://www.understandingpower.com/more.htm

Did anyone around here come across this book? What is your opinion on the material?

I find it a little hard to digest to say the least, but conclusive enough to be taken serious. I find this book recommendable in deed!

Perez became Israels president for the next 7 years, may be the last president ever? 60 years in politics sure is a Hell of a time, I find him controversial, on the one hand he is responsible for Israel being a nuclear state, on the other he received the Nobel Peace Price. The popularity of Sharon he never gained.

In Beirut car bombs are killing again, and a possible escalation is of great concern. Six assassinations in 4 weeks. Another anti Syria politician killed. A clear attempt to further destablize the already fragile situation in Lebanon.

Gaza slips into civil war, sectarian violence all over the place, common people run for their life, if the can and have the means to do so, they go into exile. A spill over into the West Bank sure is the biggest concern for the enar future.

I don't know, but one thing is for sure, there are times where I just do not want to hear any more news, ideally for 6 month or so. Just no more news. It has a depressing effect on me at times, may be I should go back to the maldves, as long as they still exist. <cynical grin>

 

[Asher Kelman]

Don't understand!

Greetings,

http://www.understandingpower.com/more.htm

Did anyone around here come across this book? What is your opinion on the material?

I find it a little hard to digest to say the least, but conclusive enough to be taken serious. I find this book recommendable in deed!

If you read any book of a belief system, the logic will be internally consistent. So Catholics reading details about mortal versus non-mortal sins or Lutherans about the good deeds of Luther or else the speeches of Trotsky or Lenin, will have many books to read that have nuance but no flagrant warping of apparent truth.

Internal consistency is part of the belief systems in Europe about the Arab-Israel conflict and the Shi-Versus Sunni feuds as well as the Islam versus Crusader spheres of thought.

In Europe, anti-Zionist Israel" replaces age long anti-Semitism and provides an "Ethical Way" to distill and re-bottle those extant beliefs in a new politically-correct post-Nazi era way. Not that Christian Europeans are pro-slam, they are not! The Muslims have not really achieved parity with Christians in respect, just enough to deal with the voting power. Look at the conditions of Muslims in France! Admitedly France now is atempting to address some of these issues. We can ask if that reaction is it a little to little and a lot too late!

Perez

The name is Shimon Peres, a dove, not Perez! LOL!!!

became Israels president for the next 7 years, may be the last president ever?

Israel will no longer have a president? You think there will be a coup or a King on a throne like in Jordan or Saudi Arabia? I don't get it!

60 years in politics sure is a Hell of a time, I find him controversial, on the one hand he is responsible for Israel being a nuclear state,

Why is he responsible for Israel being a nuclear State?

on the other he received the Nobel Peace Price.

Because he dared to work for peace and risk everything. Like Rabin he considered that there is no need to make peace with one's friends, however, statesmen need to make peace with the people that hate you. That is Statesmanship. He really has campaigned for dealing with the Arabs in a less confrontational way, even after each suicide attack or explosion. For this, a lot of people ridiculed him.

The popularity of Sharon he never gained.

Such popularity depends on the tide of war!

In Beirut car bombs are killing again, and a possible escalation is of great concern. Six assassinations in 4 weeks. Another anti Syria politician killed. A clear attempt to further destabilize the already fragile situation in Lebanon.

The wholesale shelling of a civilian camp against a few hundred embedded Muslim right militias has been tolerated as if it was some routine cleaning of the drainpipes. 30,000 people have been forced out of their homes and no one is outraged!! It amazes me how the Europeans have such selective outrage. Just as there are no mass demonstrations to show revulsion against attacks against the people of Darfur, the Palestinians in Lebanon don't warrant tears it seems!

Gaza slips into civil war, sectarian violence all over the place,

"Slips" is a poor choice of a verb! There was no slippage, LOL! The people who armed the forces prepared for the attacks for a long time and this is likely the long hands that act in Lebanon.

"Slips" implies some accident! This however, is a tactical operation, well-prepared long ago.

common people run for their life, if the can and have the means to do so; they go into exile.

It's sad that after so many years, the Palestinians have not a unified civil system for promoting their people. They do have highly educated men and women to run the things if the guns would stop! They need a great deal of external help to get the civil warring stopped!

A spill over into the West Bank sure is the biggest concern for the near future.

I doubt that will happen!

I don't know, but one thing is for sure, there are times where I just do not want to hear any more news, ideally for 6 month or so. Just no more news. It has a depressing effect on me at times, may be I should go back to the Maldives, as long as they still exist. <cynical grin>

Problem is that in the good old days, kings were at least schooled in politics and the world map. They had a sense of the various cultures, it seems. If we have leaders who know history and geography and don't get science from a bible or the bible from science, then we might find our way out of this. It will be men like Peres, Abbas and Clinton who could bring this off.

And Chomsky?

Oh yes, there's Chomsky! What a reliably consistent fellow!

He is, to be truthful, an entirely internally-consistent self-appointed priest of his own ethnic nihilism, a hater of the people that provide the very water he drinks.

For all his guerilla-warfare erudite writing, I've never heard him propose giving up his home to some Massachusetts Native American tribe that was displaced! He doesn't venture there. Chomsky is a passionate and persuasive speaker no less than Fidel Casto, Trotsky or other socialists. Only problem, he's a little late to the act!

Asher

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Why is he responsible for Israel being a nuclear State?

Is that a rhetorical question? <smile> He was part of the team responsible and driving it, you know that.

SOURCE: USAF Counterproliferation Center
The Counterproliferation Papers Series was established by the USAF Counterproliferation Center to provide information and analysis to U.S. national security policy-makers and USAF officers to assist them in countering the threat posed by adversaries equipped with weapons of mass destruction. Copies of papers in this series are available from the USAF Counterproliferation Center, 325 Chennault Circle, Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6427. The fax number is (334) 953-7538; phone (334) 953-7538.


As early as 1948, Israeli scientists actively explored the Negev Desert for uranium deposits on orders from the Israeli Ministry of Defense. By 1950, they found low-grade deposits near Beersheba and Sidon and worked on a low power method of heavy water production. Weizmann Institute of Science actively supported nuclear research by 1949, with Dr. Bergmann heading the chemistry division. Israel secretly founded its own Atomic Energy Commission in 1952 and placed it under the control of the Defense Ministry. The foundations of a nuclear program were beginning to develop.

In 1949, Francis Perrin, a member of the French Atomic Energy Commission, nuclear physicist, and friend of Dr. Bergmann visited the Weizmann Institute. He invited Israeli scientists to the new French nuclear research facility at Saclay. A joint research effort was subsequently set up between the two nations. Perrin publicly stated in 1986 that French scientists working in America on the Manhattan Project and in Canada during World War II were told they could use their knowledge in France provided they kept it a secret. Perrin reportedly provided nuclear data to Israel on the same basis. One Israeli scientist worked at the U.S. Los Alamos National Laboratory and may have directly brought expertise home.

In the 1950s and into the early 1960s, France and Israel had close relations in many areas. France was Israel's principal arms supplier, and as instability spread through French colonies in North Africa, Israel provided valuable intelligence obtained from contacts with sephardic Jews in those countries.

The two nations collaborated, with the United Kingdom, in planning and staging the Suez Canal-Sinai operation against Egypt in October 1956. The Suez Crisis became the real genesis of Israel's nuclear weapons production program. Shimon Peres, the Director-General of the Defense Ministry and aide to Prime Minister (and Defense Minister) David Ben-Gurion, and Bergmann met with members of the CEA (France's Atomic Energy Commission).

On 7 November 1956, a secret meeting was held between Israeli foreign minister Golda Meir, Shimon Peres, and French foreign and defense ministers Christian Pineau and Maurice Bourges-Manoury. The French, embarrassed by their failure to support their ally in the operation, found the Israelis deeply concerned about a Soviet threat. In this meeting, they substantially modified the initial understanding beyond a research reactor. Peres secured an agreement from France to assist Israel in developing a nuclear deterrent.

After further months of negotiation, agreement was reached for an 18-megawatt (thermal) research reactor of the EL-3 type, along with plutonium separation technology. France and Israel signed the agreement in October 1957. Later the reactor was officially upgraded to 24 megawatts, but the actual specifications issued to engineers provided for core cooling ducts sufficient for up to three times this power level, along with a plutonium plant of similar capacity. Data from insider reports revealed in 1986 would estimate the power level at 125-150 megawatts. The reactor, not connected to turbines for power production, needed this increase in size only to increase its plutonium production. How this upgrade came about remains unknown, but Bourges-Maunoury, replacing Mollet as French prime minister, may have contributed to it.[17] Shimon Peres, the guiding hand in the Israeli nuclear program, had a close relationship with Bourges-Maunoury and probably helped him politically

A dove with nuclear eggs in deed. <grins>

But don't get me wrong, there is a lot to be admired about Peres and his positions in deed. In his autobiography he wrote that the Zionist blueprint almost ignored Arab national aspirations. Well, all this is in the past, and the future is of concern.

a hater of the people that provide the very water he drinks

LOL Asher, one could come to the conclusion that you dislike Chomsky. <hehehe> I rather see it like the native americans in that context, the people do not own the water he drinks or the air he breathes. <smile> Clean water belongs to all and should be free for everyone to have access to.

Personally I find his analysis of the media and how they work in the context of indoctrination and cooperations profit interests not only correct but something that very barely has been expressed so explicitly.

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Problem is that in the good old days, kings were at least schooled in politics and the world map. They had a sense of the various cultures, it seems. If we have leaders who know history and geography and don't get science from a bible or the bible from science, then we might find our way out of this. It will be men like Peres, Abbas and Clinton who could bring this off.

Yeah, and sub consequently the media are the problem to a high degree. We have leaders whose level of education on a broader scale is poor to say it in gentle words.

Rather we have people with strong messianic complex symptoms empowered to make policies, very dangerous in deed.

True education is the key to better policies and a more peaceful future in my book and yes it requires brains to drive forward a world with less arms and poverty.

The combined IQ of the most powerful nations leaders of the world today is probably somewhat shocking. Then again, even shimps have problem solving strategies. <grins>

 

[Ray West]

Hi Georg,

True education .....

who defines 'true' and 'education' ?

Best wishes,

Ray

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Hi Georg,

who defines 'true' and 'education' ?

The parents common sense, may be?

See, it sure depends on where you live and how education is provided and infiltrated with ideology of the powers at work, we know that.

It is shocking to see how many people actually take the idiots box propaganda messages for the truth.

"True" shall mean unbiased and not ideologically censored, informative facts at best.

"Education" shall be the process which guides young persons to find and develop their own way in life and become healthy and stable personalities.

Then again, education is dangerous, of course, as it was for many generations a privilege of the ruling class to read and write, for the very same reason.

See, take Ireland's recent elections for example, although more than 70% voted for a change, the current center right wing stays in power for the next 5 years due to the deal they could strike with the greens and a few independants, this is against peoples vote but in accordance to the democratic structure. Now is that deal the greens did with the government, a 90 pages document, is that document common knowledge. No, of course not, it is not being published as we speak. So there is a censor that chose to keep that information behind close doors, this is education from the other side of the fence in my book.

Information and dysinformation is the name of the game as far as I understand it and yes, it is very difficult to optain a level of information that can be trusted.

What is an untrue education? Propaganda is, and any forms of education that tries to manipulate and infiltrate young minds with ideologically driven motivs. I am afraid free thinking people who do not buy blidnfold into the stream of media stagemanaged flow of informations are becoming an extinct species.

 

[Ray West]

Hi Georg,

I don't want to go down the road of asking 'what is common sense'.....

The systems we have, democracy/dictatorship/religion/whatever of government were designed for a different world. However, the folk who are now in the position to make some change, will have their own personal interests at heart, and will stick with what suits them best - something to do with Newton's laws of motion, 'body remaining at rest....'

Until 'something' comes along with a bigger 'bribe', then these systems are unlikely to change.

Best wishes,

Ray

ps. I've no firm idea what or when the 'something' may be, 'bribe' could be 'threat', etc., but I could speculate, but won't.

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Hi Ray,

yeah! Interesting, and I agree with the physics aspects to a degree. I suppose I am still the idealist who would like to see things more evenly distributed in this world, and to grab some multis by the balls.

Unfortunately politics and economical interests of lobbies are deeply interwoven, in Ireland it is the building industry and government, in other countries milage may vary, but the concept is similiar.

Our dance around the golden calf has been ongoing now since WWII and our riches are made with the full knowledge that we exploit others to maintain these riches.

May be ethics and politics are just too strange bedfellows?

As for that Chomsky Book, I truly could not read any hatred stuff in itt, and yes, the man is an excellent brain and analyst in my view.

I often wonder, how will the world look in 1000 years from now? Will there still be national borders? Will hunger and disease be erradicated? Will we have found a way to travel to the stars? What will music be like? Will books still be printed?

Then I look to todays news, and well, in deed I think we are apes with technology, medieval mindsets.

Sorry for that rant, I guess I am having a bad time here.

 

[Ray West]

Hi Georg,

You're not having a bad time, you're getting older, you will get even more grumpy ;-) I know that, been there, got the tee shirt, if I could remember where I put it and if I was still slim enough to get it on, or be capable of raising my arms over my head to put it on.....

Then I look to todays news, and well, in deed I think we are apes with technology, medieval mindsets.

That is exactly as I see it, but taking it away from the more major issues, I am so very, very disappointed in the way that personal computer development, has taken place, and with much of the technology at the 'consumer level'. This was emphasised today by a poster asking about the canon eos flash system. For crying out loud, its just a bl**dy flash gun, no need to make it unusable.

Many years ago, we had a remote tv controller with 64, yes 64 buttons on it. 64 - just 'cos they could. Probably only used eight.

I think it was in the 1920's that Freud's nephew started screwing with the usa population, hence the birth of consumerism, marketing, mass production of junk. Until then, you bought shoes 'cos the lasted, afterwards you bought them for fashion.


Best wishes,

Ray

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

<grins> Grumpy old men eeeh?

I have been involved in politics for quite some time, but not anymore, for good reasons!

I rather go out tomorrow and plant 2 acres of hillgras on the land, knowing my back will be sore, but I know why, instead of getting a headache from people whos whole intention in life is to fight turf wars and stake out their own claims.

Nearly finished the book, I still think it is recommendable literature to those who might be interested in more detail insights on how thw world is run.

Apart from that, Freud powdered his nose a few times too many. <grins>

I still buy shoes to last and switched my Loyds for heavy Alpine Meindl Boots, much more comfortable, and no need to polish. <grins>

 

[Asher Kelman]

I like the idea of the Alpine boots.

Re Chomsky, he is a wonderful speaker. However, like the others is really a priest. Ninety percent or more of what they say might be agreeable to me. I worry about the rest!

Reasonable: all humans need to be treasured, IOW, love your neighbor as yourself.

Yes, it's difficult for deceptive creature like us, but it's a good goal.

Asher

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Reasonable: all humans need to be treasured, IOW, love your neighbor as yourself.

I would like to expand that idea to: Respect for all creation.

 

[Asher Kelman]

I think it starts with having some humility and knowledge of how we, as unimportant as we are, can do a lot of good around us and also a lot of damage. We all have two voices in our ears!

Respect for life, is respect for everything. After that we apply that to an increasing circle. In theory, it works well in songs of freedom and salvation and hugs at summer camps around camp fires. However, in practice, it's far more difficult to work out how to apply this to real communities!

Maybe we are far too primitive to go beyond ideals?

We are after all sucked in to ccolliding black holes of pedantic, messianic savior-movements from Lenin and Mao to the children of the books and carved tablets and stautes and holy places all over the planet, walking in self-consistent, mututally exclusive delusional congregations, knowing righteousness and holding perceived wounds, insults, deaths and martydoms like a child holds a teddy bear (for a sense of being whole and being cared for by a power greater than all of us.

Asher