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  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Posting 101, the Remedial Class

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Rachel Foster

New member
Ok, I know it's been discussed and then the discussions have been discussed and the discussed discussions have....iterative.

But for those of us who have short attention spans, don't listen well, or are just plain old and crotchety (me, I'm all three), could you review the rules on posting images? When, where, how many, how often, what size, and um......more details.
 
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Ray West

New member
Hi Rachel,

The rules are generally unwritten, the important ones, that is.
Unless to explain a point, they should be your own images, with model releases, etc.
They are not to demean the subject.
Restricted to four per posting. (generally one is enough)
There has to be a purpose - other than to get a 'wow, what a shot' - response from your friends.
Read the introduction http://www.openphotographyforums.com/index.php If you can comply with that ideal, then Asher will make sure you're good to show - (but I may argue....)
Often, we give enough slack rope, folk hang themselves. Sometimes, if that doesn't happen, well, we won't go there.....

By the time you've posted 500 times, you should have learnt enough to become a senior member. As a senior member, you will be expected to pay a higher subscription. You are expected to know 'stuff'.

You should know that this is all evolving, changing, even as we speak.

Best wishes,

Ray
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Joe Hardesty

New member
Ray West said:
Hi Rachel,

The rules are generally unwritten...

There has to be a purpose - other than to get a 'wow, what a shot' - response from your friends.
Click to expand...

Hi Ray,

Based on the majority of images I have seen posted here, this rule surprised me.

So, if an image is posted without a stated purpose, is it automatically assumed that it is here for critique, technical review, etc?

Thanks,
 
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Rachel Foster

New member
I ain't no senior member. I just talk a lot.

I'm more intrigued by evolving threads, by those that develop a theme and show the progression or growth of an image/idea/etc.
 
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Ray West

New member
Hi Joe,

It is as Michael says - in fact the tag line for most moderator's say so. Personally, I would delete all images just posted, for no apparent reason, until some reason for posting was given. Otherwise, we spend the time thinking 'why was that posted?'. I can't be bothered with that. Nothing wrong if you are just starting out, to say, well whatever Rachel used to say (but maybe don't say it so much, else next week you'll be senior too). Generally, if you try to help yourself, others will step in to help. A lot is, of course, just opinion.

An alternative, is just a picture site, something to idly flick through, maybe a showcase for people's work. Asher goes on about 'the Arc of Intent', which goes part way to what we were trying to do. But, it is rumoured that it may be changing. Things evolve, generally grow, blossom, wilt and die. To get good blossoms, you got to pour on the dung, and do the pruning ;-)

I know as much about gardening as I do photography, so check things out for yourself.

Best wishes,

Ray
 
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Joe Hardesty

New member
Ray West said:
Personally, I would delete all images just posted, for no apparent reason, until some reason for posting was given.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree, but that creates a dichotomy between an unwritten rule and accepted photographic courtesy. I was always taught to never offer opinion or critique of an image unless it was expressly requested.

IMHO, the unwritten rule needs to be written and the "automatic critique" policy needs to be stated clearly in a prominent location. That will help insure we all remain good OPF citizens, don't inadvertently offend, and don't waste precious bandwidth.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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Rachel Foster

New member
I've suggested before (I'm not sure if it was in PM to Asher or on the open board) that perhaps a forum for people who are very, very new and have a ton to learn could post in. Entry Digital is the one I post in most often, but I think even there the expectations are for higher quality work than many of us can pull off. The level of feedback that is useful differs with the different levels of skill and knowledge a photographer or potential-photographer has. I yearn for a forum where we who are clueless can post without fear of annoying those who are so very accomplished and find such posts a bother. If there were a place expressly for the clueless (I nominate myself Queen of the Clueless, by the way), we could post freely without violating the expectations for the rest of the board.

OPF is not a photography school. But if it is to be truly "open" there should be a place for people at my level. Even if we only commented on each other's work, I would find it useful. Our needs are very different from those of the accomplished photographer. Our posting styles are different. If there is a place for the Clueless, perhaps such a forum would be helpful.
 
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Ray West

New member
Sorry about the confusion re the '/' I usually check my posts via the 'preview' facility. I guess I didn't for this one. I am wondering where the '/' came from?

Asher probably gets tons of suggestions. It is not possible to please everybody, although I have a feeling that Asher is trying to do so.

It is easy for anyone to start a forum, free, adequate, software available, low cost hosting, and you are off. Then, you have to get the people you want, and keep out those you don't. Something like opf, however, is somewhat different. (the software is not free, maybe not even adequate..)

I guess it's like trying to run/organise something like the London Marathon, compared to a race at your school's sports day. Not just the complexity, but trying to make it worthwhile for the widely various levels of competence, and you don't know the runners.

Generally, most folk do what they can do. We all give our time. So, if you want a free course in photography, then you may not get it here. If you want an honest opinion on a photo, then you may get an opinion, but it may only be worth what you pay for it. But it is give and take, that is the subscription.

If you think you can join opf, get some free advertising for your product, well, that depends. You may not get what you bargained for. Why should anyone offer their time for free for others to make financial profit.

In general, we want to see progress, in the individual's taking part, and the forum itself. No idea how to define what I see as progress, without making a lot of alterations.

A relatively famous (at least for me) musician said that he liked playing the piano since he got 'reward for effort'. I think most folk who give a reply to a question, would appreciate seeing the recipient of the reply, at least trying it out, thinking about the answer, even if it is not what they wanted to hear. Alternatively, they can go elsewhere, and seek like minded people, and have a jolly time, but learn little. Your choice, my choice, whatever.

And then, there are those who like to just see there name on the web, for whatever reason. A picture of the cat - wow what a shot - That is of no interest to me, hence I rarely comment on those images. As folk round here say -' you can't teach pork'. But, if it gives others pleasure, then maybe that's OK. Do I want to be associated with that, by being a member here, I don't know? Maybe any club I'd want to join, wouldn't want me.

So, back to rules.

Look at something simple - themundayfunday thread or whatever it was called. Simple rule at the top of that thread. How much compliance? Should I delete most of ithe posts for not complying? Should I allow the other day's postings to be included with the folk who took the trouble to post on a Monday? Think about that. Think about rules, or not. None of this works by magic. I have a belief that the takers have no concern of how much the givers give, the 2000 odd lurkers, who never post - I would simply remove them, given my choice. I'd bring in rules, if you want rules, and even I'd be too frightened to post.

Most things of value are worth working for. Sometimes, you just have to work at it.

Best wishes,

Ray
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
In simple terms, look at OPF for entertainment and pleasant company of others wanting to progress and reach their goals and needs in photography and or those who like to share their own experience.

So if Ray goes to the bother of defining a thread for Monday's humor, we should post what makes that really work. That's fun.

When there is a challenge of portraits in available light, indoor snapshots with no artistic care really don’t help the thread.

Work in a unique style by Charlotte, which intrigues me and let's me study, like or dislike, must be in one thread, or else it gives others the impression that we are mostly about abstractions from photographs. Actually we love to see artistic derivations where it's part of a developing or continuous style. We just don't want to swamp out landscapes and figure studies etc that represent most of the interest of photographers in OPF.

So we support individuality but want to keep subjects together or else there is total confusion. We are happy when OPFrs who are part of our structure and help the forum also manage to get a following that helps them professionally. However, we won't allow OPF to be a cheap advertising platform for selling services. If we'd have advertising, which currently we don't then they could sponsor a page and pay towards OPF. However, I have refused this to date and wiped out sneaky posters who add zero.

IOW, if you help OPF photographers by good cheer, sharing inspiring photography, how you set up your new studio or plan a major shoot and so forth, then you can add a link in your signature to your trips to Hawaii to photograph colored fish or volcano-scapes and we're happy for you. We'll even host for free your educational seminars etc in "Uptown".

The idea is that we post according the rules of that thread.

If you dilute this, OPF becomes too confusing to follow and the utility and fun factors are ruined, like not being able to find classical music n a totally disorganized music store where there's no filing system, people wander in and out, drop off used awful records and CD's and leave with other stuff without paying.

The OPF way is to help others on their own journeys. So we don't screw up a thread with irrelevant stuff or chat about personal stuff that should be in a PM.

I hope that's now clear.

I'll eventually make this more concise and improved with others help. However, this should help people frame what we expect and will make everyone's experience worthy of his or her effort.

Asher
 
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Rachel Foster

New member
Let me say first and foremost that I think OPF is a wonderful place and I have no desire to change it. But, for some reason, I have difficulty understanding the rules. I do try to follow them to the best of my ability, but I just don't seem to be able to. My request for a newbie forum was so that I could post without breaking rules.

Please know that my failures to adhere were not (with one exception) intentional. I just don't seem to "get it." Thank you all for your patience. I will continue to find OPF a wonderful resource but I think I will severely curtail posting. I must be missing the necessary brain cells...gracious knows I've lost some along the way.
 
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Joe Hardesty

New member
Rachel,

I am almost absolutely positive that there is an unwritten rule that states, "Senior Members are not allowed to stop posting."

Let's have fun!
 
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Rachel Foster

New member
LOL, Joe! The only problem is that it is very important to me to not be disruptive, and to conform the community guidelines. I'm just rotten at it! This is not a pout/flounce/hissy fit. It's simply recognizing that I have difficulty with this. I'm quite fond of everyone here, and in great awe of many. Hopefully, that's clear to all.
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Rachel,

You are not being disruptive, LOL. It just takes a little time to funnel people's work into the right threads, that's all. Essentially for one's own unique style, keep posting in that thread or threads and don't make essentially duplicate threads. We don't want fewer posts, far from it. We just want people to place new posts in existing threads, where possible, to keep like photographs and discussion in the same places where people can get a sense of a whole topic.

So if one starts 5 threads on "Portraits of Jennifer I" then "Jennifer II" then "Jennifer III" it makes us cross-eyed! What was wrong with Jennifer I?

So that's what it's about!

The greatest pleasure we can have is to see progress in people's work whether it's a trip to photograph zoos across the USA, nailing how to photograph a car, using a new camera, printing with a modern Large format printer and interesting papers, getting pictures to a new market or even understanding how art might function for us. This is about real photography covering everything from the nature of light-glass-surface-edge activities and how the incident is transformed to images to delivery of an image to knock their socks off. Where each of us fits in is wherever we can learn and contribute!

Ultimately the purpose, direction and devotion are to each of us succeeding in our goals in photography.

We don't expect perfection, just an attempt to make things work. If people are self-disciplined, we can understand where each of us might be going, so it's easier to be of mutual support. I know that sometimes we have more than one interest. Well we expect that, still each should be filed where we are dealing with just one discussion topic. If things get off track, and another subject gets traction, we'll try to split the thread, so that the daughter topic has it's own space.

All we want to do is make it so people can find their way around and the site is therefore functional. That's a good thing!

We are a collection of people trying to map out and reach some destination in Photography. We travel together in a small space.

OPF is ambitious. We want to help you reach your destination and expect the same help to be given back to everyone else. I personally appreciate your involvement and the welcome you give to new photographers. The rules? The least possible. Once you have read this it's just common sense. This is not a school or military academy. We just expect people to use thoughtfulness. So far we do pretty well.

IOW, "Be nice to the other people in the tour bus!"

Now, how's that?

Asher
 
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Rachel Foster

New member
Asher, I have the utmost respect and affection for you, and for most here, in fact. I just fear I violate the rules quite frequently even though I struggle not to. It's my great respect for you and the forum that gives me pause. The last thing I want to do is confuse or create extra work. My enthusiasm, coupled with a natural loquaciousness seems to cause me to run afoul of community guidelines. Please know I'm not protesting or complaining. I'm simply trying to help OPF function as you want it to. Methinks I have a talent for filling the proverbial "means well but continues to make mistakes" role.
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Rachel and anyone else on creative binge!

We all have that struggle. Just do your best. We'll help you! Just feed your existing threads where possible so we can follow progress and style. New work is worthwhile to nurture and if it succeeds, we all benefit. However, going from ordinary to extraordinary requires

  • vision/sense of purpose
  • focus on a limited goal (even to loosely experiment with photographing windows of burnt homes).
  • enthusiasm to sustain the effort needed
  • effort
  • insight as to where one is and whether or not goal, capabilities, resources and tactics match.
  • persistence
  • skill
  • talent
  • reworking ideas and starting again if needed

This has to continue until our work stands separate from us as worthy. If your effort is all over the place, we cannot follow what's going on! This applies especially to all of us in a phase transformation. Anyway, that's my opinion and best bet!

Good luck!

Asher
 
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Rachel Foster

New member
I've been thinking about this for a while. I see the need for rules, of course. But aren't artists among those least able to follow "rules?"
 
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