Have you read the Costa Rica Thread? If not, why not?

[Asher Kelman]

I am totally amazed that we have two outstanding threads which are photographic windows on societies we might find fascinating:

The thread from the David Eves on the Arctic Eskimo and then Robert and Anne Watcher's rich travelogue in costa Rica.

Have you read about the coffee maker, the wagon wheel maker, the pizza makers? Have you seen the man with his photographic shrine to Marylyn Monroe or the splendid portrait of a young woman from one of the hotels? These photo essays and more are here to be discovered. Why do we not have more comments? Is it intimidating?

It's important that we support each other. Cem asked me about this and now I ask all of you?

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

On a question like this, we all should pitch in to understand what's going on. It would be great if the number of replies would approach the number of people who read this! So far 6 sets of eyeballs but not a single response?

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

As Asher said, it has come to my attention that the Costa Rica thread was getting zero response despite the many interesting pictures posted there. The only person who has ever responded was Asher but the rest of us (including yours truly) have never even once posted there. Naturally, I started to wonder why. Normally, all pictures posted in OPF get a reaction from someone, sooner or later. So how come a thread which is so full of interesting pictures got none? This is an interesting sociological question IMO.

I've thought about my personal reasons why I haven't responded. There is an overload of information to be found in that thread. It is filled with a story as well as many worthy pictures. It feels to me that if I would engage a conversation in this thread, I'd have to commit myself to continuing reading the posts, understanding the local situation, digesting the info provided, evaluting the many pictures, replying to the story as well as to the pictures and following up on that. It is a huge time sink and I did not feel ready to make that commitment. That is my reason. The same reasons apply to the Arctic thread of David Eves.

So what's your take on this?

Cheers,

 

[John Angulat]

Cem, Asher et al -
I too must admit I've viewed the threads, but did not offer comment.
Cem brings out a very good point - he refers to an "overload of information".
Oftentimes I find myself with limited time available to devote to OPF.
Life is just too busy and I'm struggling (and juggling) an executive's career, a spouse's busy restaurant and everything else life seems to throw at me.
Long, detailed threads just do not hold my interest. I see most of the images as average in quality and sometimes not much more than a recap of someone's extended vacation.
I guess it's what I think (and it's just my opinion) the forum should be - single images posted for comment. Fast, quick dialogue between interesting members.
Again (or also), I feel as Cem does - if I offer comment on the larger, more complicated threads I'm committed to following that thread far longer than I normally would have.
I try to make every effort to respond to replies to my posts. To not do so would be rude. Consequently, for the larger threads I'll not comment.

 

[james sperry]

i also have looked at the thread. and i enjoy the pictures as well. but, i don't have the ability to see what everybody else sees. from the other studies that i have done, i have a really different aspect of photography. maybe it's from my background, maybe i just don't have the "nack" for it.... i don't know. this forum for me is a place to go to get away from the stress in life. i look at the pictures, imagine how the photographer set up the shot, or what he was thinking at the time ( ie, did the shot have a meaning, was it spontaneous, did it bring a fealing to him/her ... etc).

i try to post comments with every image that i look at, but it in the end, it's always so different of the others here. not that i get 'flamed' for it or anything..... i just feel that maybe i'm insulting the photographer instead of saying something close to what the author is trying to portray. i wish i had the words for every image that i see here. they are all inspiring and i lay in bed at night wishing i could do the things and see the things that everybody here has the ability to do.

i just hate leaving only the comment ...... "nice shot"..... and not having the ability to say anything else. it just feels so.... "i looked at it, but didn't see it". i know that i get these replies to my posts but they come from authors of a different caliber than myself and i look at it as a compliment. i just don't want it to come across as an insult coming from my level. ( i hope that makes sense).

lol ....... sometimes i get the feeling ( self imposed ) that i'm the death of a thread ... lol.

 

[fahim mohammed]

I plead guilty. I too have read the thread and seen the images. However, I did not respond. I shall
revisit it shortly and follow it up with a post.

My apologies for coming up short in this regard.

 

[John Angulat]

Hi Fahim,
I'll apoligize up front for using you (or your post) as an opportunity to vent.

I do not believe you have anything to apologize for.
You didn't read the thread for whatever reason, it doesn't matter.
We shouldn't be "strong armed" into participation, by Asher or anyone else.
We also shouldn't be questioned as to why we didn't participate.
The lack of replies or participation to that thread indicates there wasn't interest enough to comment.
They were read, that's evidenced by over 400 views. Just not enough interest to respond. Threads die, life goes on.

 

[Asher Kelman]

On a question like this, we all should pitch in to understand what's going on. It would be great if the number of replies would approach the number of people who read this! So far 6 sets of eyeballs but not a single response?

This, John, is what this thread is about.

The Costa Rca thread is in no danger at all of dying out. It the work of a two photographer team who are committed to their project long term. I think this is an outstanding and engaging travel essay. I look for new episodes each day. The work stands on its own without need for feeding it. No one is being "strong-armed".

Cem wrote to me asking about the phenomenon. So I simply I wanted to respond to Cem's question as to why we were so reserved. As I said, "we should pitch in to understand what's going on". That might better guide us in photography presentation.

In this case, should it be just one megathread? For example, just the portrait of the girl alone or the Marilyn Monroe photo-adoration wall would be fine on their own.

Asher

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

....We shouldn't be "strong armed" into participation, by Asher or anyone else.
We also shouldn't be questioned as to why we didn't participate.
..

Hi John,

I disagree with the first sentence above, there is no "strong arming" in this case. It was just a simple question. I also disagree with the second, there is no harm in asking in order to get our bearings right.

Cheers,

 

[nicolas claris]

Asher named these threads as logs and Cem made a very good point, I would add that when one reads a book, one doesn't write to the author… or very rarely…
I did read, enjoyed the journey, and that's where I found a great pleasure...

 

[James Newman]

I have looked through it a couple of times, to see what new things have been added. I just haven't been moved enough to comment I suppose. I have never been to Costa Rica and doubt very seriously that I ever will go. For that reason I am interested in seeing the photos from the trip. It's just difficult for me to see such an overload of images and then have anything to say other than "Wow these are really nice. What a beautiful place with beautiful people." I was just going to wait until the end to make those comments.

At the same time, when I do see this kind of post, all I can remember is seeing people being chastized, in a very nice way, if they happened to post 3 or 4 images at once. They were always told to just post one at a time and we could discuss each giving the amount of attention it deserved. Is this kind of posting just going by different rules because of the nature of it?

James Newman

 

[Asher Kelman]

James,

I'm glad for your answer.

The aversion to someone posting 10 pictures at once is in general a protest against shoving at us unselected or unrelated pictures. This paralyses us since we cannot focus.

We have had 3 travelogues, AFAIK. Arctic Eskimo, Tibet and Costa Rica and one dedicated photo-essay on the coffee plantations of Nicaragua.

When we started with David Eaves and the Arctic Eskimo, I was overwhelmed at first. I wondered about the photographic quality and the overload. It's so hard to get magic pictures with snowed in streets sullied by traffic. There's not a lot of color. The skies are not spectacular. Then I recalibrated by view to that of seeing a documentary, where the series of pictures tell a story and we get the gestalt of the place over time and many images. Even if one only reads the text here and there, once has a great sense of the village, its close affinity with the whales and belief in spirits with great powers.

With Fahim's journey it was easier. Tibet is in the sky and the pictures were spectacular and the street scenes colorful. It was easier to follow.

Now with Costa Rica Robert and Anne Watcher provide interesting vignettes of Costa Rican life devoid of any pretense. One can get a sense of the openness of the society to them and share the welcome. At the same time we lean a little more each time of the nature of the society.

I have looked through it a couple of times, to see what new things have been added. I just haven't been moved enough to comment I suppose. I have never been to Costa Rica and doubt very seriously that I ever will go. For that reason I am interested in seeing the photos from the trip. It's just difficult for me to see such an overload of images and then have anything to say other than "Wow these are really nice. What a beautiful place with beautiful people." I was just going to wait until the end to make those comments.

So this is an important issue. It means we need escape valves for this. Select pictures should perhaps be elsewhere in regular threads where they will stand in comparison to other pictures of that theme and not be a major commitment for anyone to make a brief comment.

At the same time, when I do see this kind of post, all I can remember is seeing people being chastised, in a very nice way, if they happened to post 3 or 4 images at once. They were always told to just post one at a time and we could discuss each giving the amount of attention it deserved. Is this kind of posting just going by different rules because of the nature of it?

Yes, I think so. Maybe we need to have a prefix, "Travelogue:" to signify there will be a steady addition of different images and explanatory text as the photographer moves from place to place on his journey. We'd hope for general comments. Specific images could be used for C&C elsewhere in OPF where appropriate. Then we wouldn't be overwhelmed.

I myself am looking at this with an open mind and therefore welcome everyone's suggestions as to optimal approach for such full-bodied, long-term photographic essays.

Asher

 

[Ken Tanaka]

(Deleted by original poster.)

 

[Asher Kelman]

The Web is positively over-stuffed with such "personal journal" photography today. Like others I saw it, considered it to be personal travel photography, and chose not to make any comment whatsoever. But since you so forcefully solicited commentary, that's how I see it.

Thanks Ken for being so candid. This shows I cannot force anything on anyone, LOL! If I could, and did, it would signify my failure. Still, your impression is that I'm a little heavy handed and that impression in not my intention.

Still, your strong opinion is most helpful. I am not sure a can agree with all of your protest, but I'm in synch with the sense of "déja vu" when posts are so unfiltered. It shouldn't be that anything is acceptable. That's something for us to consider. IOW, not everything posted should remain in a travelogue. I'm not sure just how to execute such an idea, but this is something to think about.

I'm still asserting that travelogues can be very worthwhile here. If we can accept that then the next step is to develop guidelines. This will help the photographer and the moderators to make such threads lean and focused with photography worthy of the effort.

I'd hope, in such a manner, we can improve what we see and also address your concerns.

Asher

 

[Ken Tanaka]

Upon second thoughts I chose to delete the body of my earlier reply. I think I was -too- candid. But the excerpt that you quoted above seems useful and productive.

...
Now I'm asserting that travalogues can be worthwhile. This may require a framework for a photographer to follow.

Asher

That's an incontrovertible statement. The lenses of wandering photographers have done much to show the world the world. Two weeks ago I had the opportunity to have dinner and spend a delightful evening with a very renowned Magnum photographer who has demonstrated that statement time and again. While some might claim that his bodies of images are far beyond "travelogues" he, himself, would argue that they are nothing more.

Robert Watcher's photos are fine. He's clearly comfortable with a camera and has experience with documentary photography. But his photos are personal souvenirs of his travels, cropped and toned to impress rather than to communicate. They're best consumed as a auto-run slide show, as Watcher seems to have little knowledge to share of his subjects. These are photographs mostly about Robert Watcher rather than Costa Rica or Costa Ricans.

My Magnum acquaintance, by contrast, manages to learn a great deal about his subjects in a short time (that's a talent in itself). His photography keeps him well behind the lens. This may seem like rhetoric but it is anything but.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Robert Watcher's photos are fine. He's clearly comfortable with a camera and has experience with documentary photography. But his photos are personal souvenirs of his travels, cropped and toned to impress rather than to communicate. They're best consumed as a auto-run slide show, as Watcher seems to have little knowledge to share of his subjects. ...........

Ken,

It may be that the sharing of information is only initiated and not carried through in sufficient depth. This would, for example entail digging deeper into the story behind the coffee workers to find out about the plant, the workers and social setup and then have photographs to bring us into that universe.

Colorful snaps alone do not replace this effort. Art, to me, might, at its best, provide an entire universe for the open and adventurous mind to work in. When photography is thus presented, we can buy into the limitations, constraints and opportunities the artist gives us. We can be stimulated to explore what is and what might be. This level of photography is neither trivial nor easy. Still it's doable if one knows what won't make it: the snapshot of no consequence beyond a personal moment to the photographer.

We can't demand that every travelogue be inspiring and transcendental, but at least, perhaps, the pictures can be highly selected and monitored. We should have examples of such work done well to act as inspiration for would-be writers!

Having this open discussion is valuable if it can help set a higher standard for us.

Asher

 

[Martin Kuivenhoven]

I also have read the thread and enjoyed Roberts the views of Costa Rica as well as the quality of the photography. As Robert also posts on Four Thirds User I see and have responded to other posts made there.

Robert regularly shares his work demonstrating that with often quite minimalistic gear, 1 or two lenses and a body, he is able to get remarkable shots and seems to be able to get more out of his equipment then one would expect possible. An inspiration to really explore and push the bounderies of the equipment you (or at least I) have.

Inspiring photography!

Regards, Martin

 

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Asher,

Have you read the Costa Rica Thread?

No.

If not, why not?

Been sick as a dog and writing about projections, diffraction, kilopixels, and such, doing newpaper articles, arranging and transcribing hymns for church, etc.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

...Been sick as a dog ...

Hi Doug,

Are you better by now? I hope so. If not, get well soon

Cheers,

 

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Cem,

Hi Doug,

Are you better by now?

Well, quite a bit, but still not all the way.

I hope so. If not, get well soon

Thanks so much.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Kathy Rappaport]

Me

I've barely had time to read the forum, let alone post. Anything longer than one photo and one liners is beyond my time allotment. It's tax season, I went to the WPPI show in Las Vegas last week and we moved offices yesterday. I've been working on my studio, printing and making albums too.

 

[Asher Kelman]

I've barely had time to read the forum, let alone post. Anything longer than one photo and one liners is beyond my time allotment. It's tax season, I went to the WPPI show in Las Vegas last week and we moved offices yesterday. I've been working on my studio, printing and making albums too.

One liner: Welcome back Kathy!

One picture: maybe we should have a thread: one picture one liner, one day a week from us all!

Asher

 

[Kathy Rappaport]

Photo a week

Okay I will play. Will bring my camera to the offices.

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

I have seen the title but left it for latter because of the "lots of images" or similar warning. I saw them and found they where good.

Now, I have a problem with Costa Rica since I am from Nicaragua. Central America is like a city where we have one neighborhood literal next to the other where things have always gone bad, an American believer in the perfection of slave system became president of Nicaragua by use of force - William Walker 1856- and was recognized by the US president at the time....

* 1894: Month-long occupation of Bluefields
* 1896: Marines land in port of Corinto
* 1898: Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur
* 1899: Marines land at port of Bluefields
* 1907: "Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate set up
* 1910: Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto
* 1912-33: Bombing, 20-year occupation, fought guerrillas
* 1981-90: CIA directs exile (Contra) revolution, plants harbor mines against government
(borrowed from Wapedia.mobi)

... but I don't want to go off topic here (I think It is probably too late for that)

what I want to say is that I feel very sad to see Costa Rica doing so well and being so nice while we are on a free fall since there is a fast political decomposition process going on in Nicaragua.

of course this is not Costa Ricas fault, it is probably ours (and a bit to do with the list above)...

anyway, I needed to say that -and there is more I don't-