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colorCHEETAH Pro Color Tracker Hits the Streets Soon

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Drew,

Hi Doug,

Thought you might have missed our little pre-announcement of our newest white balance product.
Well, evidently I did.

Any thoughts?
Well, there's little information to be gained from the site you linked to.

Perhaps this is something that has a broader acceptance angle but is still intended for use at the camera.

Certainly better than using a narrow acceptance angle device at the camera (or anyplace else).

I'll be interested to learn of the principles of operation of this new device.

Thanks for alerting me.

Best regards,

Doug
 
Perhaps this is something that has a broader acceptance angle but is still intended for use at the camera.

Certainly better than using a narrow acceptance angle device at the camera (or anyplace else).

In fact quite opposite to the narrow acceptance angle gospel ..., hmm.

I'll be interested to learn of the principles of operation of this new device.

Could be interesting.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Bart,
In fact quite opposite to the narrow acceptance angle gospel ..., hmm.
The only rationale for a narrow acceptance angle on a chromaticity measurement diffuser is if for some reason we wish to make a chromaticity measurement on one source of light, in the presence of other significant sources of light, in which case we would of course aim the "instrument" (camera with narrow-pattern diffuser in place) at the source of interest (from the place at which the influence of this light source is of interest).

We note that for one diffuser for which the manufacturer seemingly "touts" a narrower acceptance angle than is commonly found in measurement diffusers, no special steps have been taken to attain it. Rather, the modestly-narrow pattern results from the lack of any steps to attain a broader pattern (a nice convenience in manufacture).

In this case, there is a curious design feature that is evidently supposed to make the user think that it produces the narrower pattern, but this is a red herring. (A hint: this feature is about the size and shape of the magickal "blue dot" in the National Enquirer.)

Best regards,

Doug
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Bart,
In fact quite opposite to the narrow acceptance angle gospel ..., hmm.
You may be alluding to this:

And he said to them, ‘Pay attention to what you hear; the measure you give will be the measure you get, and still more will be given you.
- Mark 4:24 (New Revised Standard Version)​

Best regards,

Doug
 

Drew Strickland

New member
The only rationale for a narrow acceptance angle on a chromaticity measurement diffuser is if for some reason we wish to make a chromaticity measurement on one source of light, in the presence of other significant sources of light, in which case we would of course aim the "instrument" (camera with narrow-pattern diffuser in place) at the source of interest (from the place at which the influence of this light source is of interest).

Man, whoever made up that quote about a dog and his bone, never met Doug.

Anyway, yes we "tout" the narrow acceptance pattern of the original ColorRight. It can be advantageous in certain shooting situations. Actually, as you well know, we intended to make the product have a narrower "acceptance pattern," from the get go. Your own studies support that we did indeed accomplish this design goal. Your studies also support a greater level of neutrality for our product vs. other unnamed "prismed looking" type products (but who's keeping track). It was never our original desire to make a tool with a wide "acceptance pattern." We do, and have for a long time, recommended that in some shooting situations, an incident reading is preferred. In addition, your point that a narrow acceptance angle is not always preferred, is well taken.

The new product provides a very wide "acceptance angle." However, this new design is not due to some change in religion. It is again, born out of very practical considerations and feedback from our customer base. Just as when we moved from glass to a (yet more expensive) polymer to create an "unbreakable" product.
We had taken the current flat filter/ disk approach as far we could conceivably take it. We currently have the most neutral, the most light transmissive, and the thinnest & lightest product in this category (and by a wide margin, on all counts). The "acceptance angle," of course, was left essentially unchanged, although the latest version 4.0 does indeed have a somewhat wider acceptance angle. This was left unchanged, because, as you mentioned it was something of a trademark difference offered by our tool. It is more "precise," as it only considers a smaller portion of the light incident upon it. However, this precision also demands a greater understanding of light and color balance on the part of the customer. In other words, it is somewhat easier to "mess up" the reading due to an increase in precision if the operator knows little about color balance.

So, enter the colorcheetah. Whoa, wait a minute, why not just increase the "acceptance angle" of the flat product, you may ask. Glad you asked. Because, in reality, it just doesn't make that much of a difference. You can only go so far with a flat planar tool. It is never, ever going to be able to see up, left, or right, no matter what you do.

A flat tool is also never going to be able to truly capture light directly from a flash. Be it pop-up flash or external.

A simple flat tool can't weight the light, so the person making the color reference capture doesn't really need to know anything much about color balance to get a splendid result.

Basically, our goal is, and has always been, to make the simplest, easiest and most accurate color tools on the planet. Tools that "just work" right out of the box.

I believe (there's that word again) the colorcheetah takes us much further down this path.
 
Man, whoever made up that quote about a dog and his bone, never met Doug.

Anyway, yes we "tout" the narrow acceptance pattern of the original ColorRight. It can be advantageous in certain shooting situations.

The new product provides a very wide "acceptance angle." However, this new design is not due to some change in religion. It is again, born out of very practical considerations and feedback from our customer base. Just as when we moved from glass to a (yet more expensive) polymer to create an "unbreakable" product.
We had taken the current flat filter/ disk approach as far we could conceivably take it. We currently have the most neutral, the most light transmissive, and the thinnest & lightest product in this category (and by a wide margin, on all counts). The "acceptance angle," of course, was left essentially unchanged, although the latest version 4.0 does indeed have a somewhat wider acceptance angle. This was left unchanged, because, as you mentioned it was something of a trademark difference offered by our tool. It is more "precise," as it only considers a smaller portion of the light incident upon it. However, this precision also demands a greater understanding of light and color balance on the part of the customer. In other words, it is somewhat easier to "mess up" the reading due to an increase in precision if the operator knows little about color balance.

Hi Drew,

You probably know that I've always been sceptical with regard to the "from camera" metering of white balance, unless one is including a spectrally neutral test object in the subject plane (e.g. WhiBal, BabelColor White target, or similar) as a later "Click White Balance" Raw conversion aid. The latter in effect is an "at the subject" incident chromaticity measurement.

The reason that the ColorParrot/ColorRight does have some effect on determining WhiteBalance, is merely due to the probability that incident+ambient light often doesn't change too much through various directions of view.

So, enter the colorcheetah. Whoa, wait a minute, why not just increase the "acceptance angle" of the flat product, you may ask. Glad you asked. Because, in reality, it just doesn't make that much of a difference.

No surprise there. In fact, narrowing the angle makes it less accurate IMHO (having never seen independent/reliable evidence to the contrary).

You can only go so far with a flat planar tool. It is never, ever going to be able to see up, left, or right, no matter what you do.

A flat tool is also never going to be able to truly capture light directly from a flash. Be it pop-up flash or external.

Not when held flush to the lens threads or hood, but (for completeness, and truth in advertising) the "Color Balance Lens" strives to do just that. It even integrates light coming from behind the camera. But let's stay on (your) topic.

Basically, our goal is, and has always been, to make the simplest, easiest and most accurate color tools on the planet. Tools that "just work" right out of the box.

I believe (there's that word again) the colorcheetah takes us much further down this path.

Drew, do you have a scenario, or better yet an unedited(!) example, demonstrating the benefit of the ColorRight over the ColorCheetah ? You suggest there are situations where it would, therefore my question. Not having either product I can't test it myself.

Good luck with the new product, which I expect to do a much better job with setting a custom WB.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Bart,

Not when held flush to the lens threads or hood, but (for completeness, and truth in advertising) the "Color Balance Lens" strives to do just that. It even integrates light coming from behind the camera.
As a a matter of interest, as near as I can tell from the literature and other descriptions (and you in fact may have information beyond that), the CBL is an opaque target, generally "white" on one side and "grey" on the other.

So in fact it does (when placed at the subject) take account of light from behind the camera!

Best regards,

Doug
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Drew,

A flat tool is also never going to be able to truly capture light directly from a flash. Be it pop-up flash or external.

I think the notion of a tool that will conveniently allow the photographer to measure the chromaticity of the light from a camera-mounted flash (without having to deploy a reflective target) is very clever. I guess I had missed that this is the purpose of the colorCHEETAH Pro Color Tracker.

A simple flat tool can't weight the light . . .
I'm not sure what you mean. Any measurement diffuser weights the light arriving from different angles according to some function of the angle of incidence.

Best regards,

Doug
 
Hi, Bart,


As a a matter of interest, as near as I can tell from the literature and other descriptions (and you in fact may have information beyond that), the CBL is an opaque target, generally "white" on one side and "grey" on the other.

So in fact it does (when placed at the subject) take account of light from behind the camera!

Looking at the illustrations, there are also some 'holes' in the surface , and facets, so it has 'some' information from the subject itself, and some from above (and below) to incorporate in the total as well. It's a bit like a fresnell lens surface, but then opaque and a bit of transparency. I have no idea how spectrally uniform the reflection of material is.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Drew,

Man, whoever made up that quote about a dog and his bone, never met Doug.
A little hard to figure out what you mean by that.

Perhaps you must mean that in my case, it would be safe to "get between [me] and [my] bone".

Clever turn of the phrase. Woof!

You do know who originally said that, don't you?

Best regards,

Doug
 
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