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  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Anyone seen this? Looks interesting.

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
http://www.camerafusion.com

Looks interesting, a cut above other similar solutions due to the GG on the film plane. It has a few problems, the adaptor vignettes FF down to APS so you need far more frames (and less resolution per frame!) and at present the widest lens you can use is 135mm, add a crop factor and you end up with approx 150mm FOV for the 6X13 frame.

My experiment into LF is still only in its infancy but if you work out the cost of just 35 sheets of film, bought, processed and drum scanned and this back doesn't look so expensive after all. Now if only I can find a way to convert my Tachihara to a graflok type back, should be little reason why not if I put my mind to it...
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Ben,

I have been testing it since April! I will retest immediately and then complete my review with Version II as soon as it arrives. I did post results previously in a stitched picture of an old train~! I will explain everything but must hold off until we have the final version! It may even come to my front door today! That's exciting and I can't wait to get it on the back of a 4x5 again!

It's use is for views with tilts where hand stitching would not work! If you can swing through the optical node of the lens or do hand held pics of things in the distance and avoid parallax artificact, you don't need this.

Asher
 

Eric Hiss

Member
interesting tool

Hi Asher,
I'm waiting to see your review. This looks like a really useful tool for the studio.
Eric
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
Asher, very excited to know that you have experience with it. Can I ask which DSLR you've been using it with? I'm a bit wary of their answers to my questions about FF. They also say that using it for verticals is not a good idea, have you done this, found a workaround to keep the camera from sliding down?

Does anyone know anything about adapting or making a graflok back plate for a spring back camera? I couldn't use this adaptor with my Tachi at present though fitting up a new back shouldn't be too difficult if someone can point me in the right direction.
 

Eric Hiss

Member
If I come up to S.F. I'll show it to you! Do you have a LF camera with a Graflok back?

Asher

Hi Asher,
That would be great! I don't have on, but I think one of my friends may have one we can borrow. I'll check. We certainly can use my studio for any testing you want to do.
Eric
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
Not fair! (stamps feet up and down). :)

I've found info on making my own conversion for the Tachi or I can pay Wista $279 for a ready made one. The home made version is taking a piece of wood and attaching a graflex back to it. Seems simple enough if I can keep it light tight.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Ben,

Will Thompson is our guru on camera conversions. He is almost a dealer, LOL! I don't think he knows all the things he has. Anyway, he's most generous in advice. So we should get him to help you if he can!

One can use it vertically but there is hte issue of the wieght of the camera. I used black electrical tape to hold the plate from giving in to the forces of gravity!

I have also used my hand to gradually drop the plate exactly 1.634432819 cm per image! :) Anyway, it works, LOL!

I've suggested a bunch of changes so I's like to unpack the new version and see how it works. It did not arrive today. I'll check the tracking number. Stuff get's held up in Customs from Canada!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Well Ben,

The new plate arrived yesterday. I'm impressed that they have really worked on issues I raised. The unit looks and feels professional and I'll be putting it through its paces in the next 4 weeks or so. I am upgrading my LF considerably so I have to have the new gear arrive! That way one does full justice to CameraFusion's efforts but also the professional value as a real work tool can be better examined.

Hold on till the review is complete!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Re the Tachihara, you might consider selling it and getting the Shen-Hao or else a used Toyo!

Depending on what you want to work with, even the plastic Toyo works fine!

Asher
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
Been thinking of swopping it for the Shen Hao though I can make a graflok back for my Tachi using a peice of wood and a $40 old graflex back so it might not be worth the bother.

Asher, do you really think I have the patience for four weeks of waiting?
;-)
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
I had an email from Carolyn from Camera Fusion to say that she is following this thread.

I'm itching to buy this, my LF experiments so far have shown that consumer scanners are a waste of time and using polaroid 55 to save on processing results in a neg with which I have almost no control (try using a red filter with an early morning filter factor 16 on an iso 24 film in low light at f32 to hold the sky!) is a proof that there is no free lunch!
A digital stitching solution would give the choice of using it for static subjects at little cost or switching to film holders where I need to freeze movement. That way I don't have to pay for a drum scan every time to capture the same amount of information and coupled with HDR techniques I can have as much control over the contrast as I could ever want.

That said there are several issues which I can see would cause problems and would like to know answers to before I spent this kind of money.

A 135mm lens on a 6X9 frame (the minimum they consider useful) equals a 50mm on FF. Not wide but not too bad, that together with my 210mm gives a nice 50mm and 85mm equivelent. They say that there is a wide angle converter on the way, I am worried about just how much it will cost!

They don't recommend vertical use. For me this is a huge issue. Why a tightening screw couldn't have been used for the horizontal movement (to stop it sliding in vertical) is beyond me. Not many shoot pano's in vertical but surely most people are not spending this much to be limited to horizontal panos!

Using the math on their website, when cropping my full frame 5D to APS sensor size to kill the vignetting caused by the adapter, you are left with just 4.9 megapixels. Even with stitching across to compensate, with a 6X9" frame (2:3 crop) you get 'only' 77 megapixels. Crop it to a traditional 4:5 ratio and it will only drop.

Now although this is a lot less than advertised I would venture that as the 5D can only resolve approx 50 lp/mm and the best non digitar LF lenses can only manage 70 lp/mm, you aren't actually going to get much better than 100 megapixels of resolution anyway. Given that LF film is considered to be the equivelent of a 60 megapixel bayer sensor (Jack Flesher correct me if I'm wrong) this is pretty good.

There doesn't seem to be any data on how much shift/rise/fall can be used with the adaptor, if the adaptor already vignettes to APS then I would be worried that it isn't that much before there will be significant light loss at the edges due to the mirror box.

There really is not much data on their website, for example Asher's example of the train shows significant slop in the movement, I would need to know that once locked down in the vertical axis, the horizontal movement is smooth and does not have any sag that would necessitate more overlap and stitching time. Similarly someone has pointed out that the vertical movement seems like it would need repositioning of the camera to keep everything straight.

If I would need to crop my FF images to APS size then I would want to know that I'm not loosing that part from the sides of the image, i.e. that I can position the camera so that the start of the image from the edge is 'clean' not that I then have to crop off from the edges. This would be a pain in the neck with compostion and reduct the megapixels and resolution still further. I have a significant investment in FF cameras and really do not want to significantly increase my expenditure on this adapter by having to change bodies as well.

The ground glass adapter has very little data shown about it, is the ground glass user replaceable? Does is include a fresnel? Can I get it with grid lines etc?

It's unfortunate that living in the UK and this being a new product I do not have the chance of being able to see it in the flesh, I'm sure if I could see it working and speak to a salesperson I would be able to aswer the above questions in under ten minutes. As it is, for all my interest this would be significant investment (the adapter, changing my camera back, buying a 135mm) so you can understand why I'm rather interested in these points!

To Carolyn and Asher in advance many thanks,

Ben
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
An update courtesy of the good people at Camera Fusion.

The sensor to film plane distance with the camera fusion adaptor is 80mm. A 135mm lens (equivelent to 50mm in FF terms) will work if your camera can infinity focus a 55mm lens. Most will not. Even with bag bellows and a 20mm recessed board it will be difficult to get much movements. Anyway the adapter reduces the angle of coverage to 68 degrees. I haven't yet worked out how to equate that to mm of movement relevant to focal lengths for a 6X12 frame, any help would be most appreciated. I think a 150mm lens would be more realistic though if I do go for the camera fusion adaptor I'm getting a 135mm Sironar S to go with it!

The 5D will give 107 megapixels over the 6X12 frame, 80 megapixels for a 6X9 frame. More megapixels require a crop camera with smaller and more dense pixels though don't count on your lens being able to resolve a huge amount more, they point out that you are using the sweet spot of the lens but it would be interesting to test whether the adaptor is resolving relative to the tested lp/mm of a given lens. I can't see that it would manage to resolve more.

You can get the ground glass with grid lines! Fresnels may be available in the future, they are still trying to source them for testing. As a fresnel is placed on the outside, nearest the eye, I can't see that it should be too much of a problem even to use aftermarket solutions pressed against the glass, maybe with blu tak or something.

There is as yet still no solution for using the adaptor in vertical format, I'm talking to them about the possibility of a solution for this as it would be crucial for me.

Both Yatish and Carolyn at Camera Fusion have been most helpful, I have little doubt that all that lies between me and one of those adapters is logistics and maybe some time to sort out camera issues!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
In due time, Ben,

"Things are never anywhere near as bad as you fear; nor as good as you hope"

or the Karma would be out of balance!

Asher
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
Been corresponding all day with Yatish, I love working with really good customer service!

A few more answers, you get at least 3cm of rise, most field cameras can't do more than that anyway. They are looking at a solution for the vertical shooting thing.

Looking good!
 
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