Critique for skin tone adjustment

[Bev Sampson]

I have two photos that represent most of my problems with skin tone as shot in mixed light with flash. The subjects that I am working with are older, overly tanned. In some instances, the couple in the photos have two different skin tones and both need correcting. I have tried various RAW converters and would like expert advise as to whether a suitable correction is even possible.

May I post two images in this form added to this thread? I have the RAW but would prefer to post a converted tiff or jpg because the RAW needed slight rotation. tiff files are approaching 40 MB each.

I would be interested in seeing what the experts could do using various RAW converters and tone corrections. I have access to PSCS ACR (not 2), bbPRO, DPP 2.2, and the trial version of RSP.

Bev

 

[StuartRae]

I would be interested in seeing what the experts could do using various RAW converters

Bev,

In that case you will have to provide the RAW file(s). As well as being much smaller than the TIFFs, it's better to do WB, EC, etc. in the RAW converter. (Just my opinion - I'm by no means an expert).

Regards,

Stuart

 

[Bev Sampson]

Bev,

In that case you will have to provide the RAW file(s). As well as being much smaller than the TIFFs, it's better to do WB, EC, etc. in the RAW converter. (Just my opinion - I'm by no means an expert).

Regards,

Stuart

This is true Stuart. What was I thinking. What if I provide the tiff or jpg and ask what can be done in PS. I am reluctant to provide RAW because I am embarrassed to show how I had to rotate the RAW. I must have had too much wine that evening. Fact is that the RV park likes me to photograph their parties and events indoors. I am willing but need to spend so much time correcting skin tones that I am likely to say no to them this year.

Bev

 

[Don Lashier]

I agree - RAW please. Often WB is the best way to get skintone correct. Don't worry about a tipsy shot - I've taken plenty even when not tipsy (and I even bought the focus screen with lines).

- DL

 

[Bev Sampson]

I agree - RAW please. Often WB is the best way to get skintone correct. Don't worry about a tipsy shot - I've taken plenty even when not tipsy (and I even bought the focus screen with lines).

- DL

I have never uploaded a RAW image. I don't think I can upload to pbase to create a link. Can I direct link to the file on my harddrive?

Bev

 

[Don Lashier]

I have never uploaded a RAW image. I don't think I can upload to pbase to create a link. Can I direct link to the file on my harddrive?

Bev

Not unless you're running a web server and have a public IP. If you send it to me I'll host it for you.

If your ISP allows big emails, send it to dl at newportnet dot com and I'll host it for you.

or my website has a file upload facility http://www.lashier.com/home.cfm?dir_cat=35877
Login with your email address and password "upload". I haven't used it in a while - hopefully it still works.

ps: just tried file upload and it still works.

- DL

 

[Bev Sampson]

OK Don, it's uploaded. Thanks Bev

 

[Don Lashier]

OK Don, it's uploaded. Thanks Bev

Great, the raw file is available at http://www.lashier.com/images/temp/_bevsampson.cr2. I won't leave it up forever (unless you want me to), but probably a couple weeks?

- DL

 

[Asher Kelman]

Bev,

I'm so pleased you discovered this issue. It's one of the most annoying things in trying to fast process shots taken at a social event. Some elderly ladies seem to use fluorescent powder from 1837!

Asher

 

[Bev Sampson]

Great, the raw file is available at http://www.lashier.com/images/temp/_bevsampson.cr2. I won't leave it up forever (unless you want me to), but probably a couple weeks?

- DL

Thanks Don. I think that until this coming Sunday or Monday should do it. Anyone who wants to try improving it will probably do it by then. All suggestions will be very much appreciated.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Bev,

I think we need it rather longer. People tend to hold back until they see what is already contributed. Some like to gauge what they have to offer according to what has already been posted.

So let it float for now and we'll deal with it when it is appropriate!

Asher

 

[Don Lashier]

Ok, here's a quick fix using both WB and tonality, all done in C1. Unadjusted shot to right, adjustments I made listed below. Note that it's not ideal to present the two shots next to each other as they bias one another (I've moved them a bit apart).

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

CaptureOne

WB 4700K/8 - as shot was 5550K/7, there is room to play with this depending upon the look you want.

EC -0.15, CC 0, CS -3.0%, WP set at 210 in levels.

- DL

 

[Bev Sampson]

Bev,

I think we need it rather longer. People tend to hold back until they see what is already contributed. Some like to gauge what they have to offer according to what has already been posted.

So let it float for now and we'll deal with it when it is appropriate!

Asher

OK Asher.

Bev

 

[Asher Kelman]

Don's version is obviously a great inprovement.

Still, on my 15" Apple monitor there's a cyan-blue hue. I'll recheck it with a claibrated monitor, but Bev, what was the color of the lady's sweater? If it is white, I'd try color correcting to that, or else to the pants, the white of the eyes and see which looks best.

This shows the benefit of a little pocket WhiBal or gray card. Never leave home without it.

Asher

 

[Diane Fields]

I can't contribute much here since I'm in Maine on laptop and wouldn't even attempt anything on it. I don't think you said what camera. I know that Ron Purdy, a pro doing fashion shooting, really likes DPP best for skin tones (Canon 5D and 1DsMkII). Now--I don't know what/how he's doing it---but they DO look good--and his clients love them. Personally, I don't use DPP but I rarely shoot people. Don's certainly look better on this laptop monitor (calibrated--sort of LOL--you know laptops). Someone else's work to look at is Steven Eastwood--now that's who you need to ask--if anyone knows, he surely does.

Diane

 

[Don Lashier]

Still, on my 15" Apple monitor there's a cyan-blue hue. I'll recheck it with a claibrated monitor, but Bev, what was the color of the lady's sweater? If it is white, I'd try color correcting to that, or else to the pants, the white of the eyes and see which looks best.

I see the cyan-blue sweater on my uncalibrated LCD at work also, it was much slighter on my calibrated CRT where I did the work. I perhaps over-cooled the WB a bit. Another approach would be to cool less but desaturate more.

Actually, on this LCD the uncorrected one looks much better than on my calibrated CRT, and even in the uncorrected shot I see blue/green in the sweater shadows. Was this perhaps mixed lighting?

- DL

 

[StuartRae]

I must admit to dislike photographing people - anyone who wanders into one of my shots has to take their chance.

The following were all converted with RSP without any PP except resizing.

I used the Color Engine lo-sat profile as it's supposed to be kinder for skin tones.

The major setting was in line with an intersting technique suggested by one the many Steves who inhabit the RS forums - lower Saturation to -98 and increase Vibrance.

So the RSP settings were EC +1.2; SC +23; HC -30; Sat -98; Vib +16.

The next problem is what to WB on?

The first shot is WB'd on the gentleman's right eye (usually a good choice)

[Edit] And a gentle negative contrast curve.

The second is WB's on the gentleman's teeth.

The third is WB's on the lady's neck strap.

Stuart

[Edit] Forgot to mention a gentle negative contrast curve

 

[Bev Sampson]

I see the cyan-blue sweater on my uncalibrated LCD at work also, it was much slighter on my calibrated CRT where I did the work. I perhaps over-cooled the WB a bit. Another approach would be to cool less but desaturate more.

Actually, on this LCD the uncorrected one looks much better than on my calibrated CRT, and even in the uncorrected shot I see blue/green in the sweater shadows. Was this perhaps mixed lighting?

- DL

I see the blue cast also as compared to my original. But in my RAW file, the sweater did not photograph completely white. In ACR and also DPP, this RAW has a cyan/slight blue cast to the sweater.

Yes, mixed lighting and flash. I think there was a flourescent light directly above. This was shot with Canon 1DMKII and the newish Canon 24-105 F4 lens. My 1DII is one of the first produced and files, before any USM, taken with this camera are very soft as compared to my D60.

I was surprised to note that I had shot this image at F4. I should have used a smaller F stop to get more DOF so that both figures would be in better focus. I usually do use at least F8 but had the camera set up for later when the dancing began in a mostly darken setting, hoping that the larger F stop would extend the flash light a little further. I am not concerned about the skill quality of the photo but I am seeking a better workflow for all people pictures to gain more accurate skin tones. It seems to me that DSLRs do not do as well as film for people.

Bev

 

[Don Lashier]

Yes, mixed lighting and flash. I think there was a flourescent light directly above.

That's what's causing the problem - in particular the flourescent is adding a green cast, picked up mostly on the white clothing. When I get home I'll try a follow-up PS adjustment (masked) or dual (different WB) conversion.

- DL

 

[Asher Kelman]

Bev,

I would not worry about f 4.0, fine for this. Focus on her eyes. Focus is not the issue.

I always try hard to use a grey reference and process in Adobe RAW and generally all is fine. If possible go round the room and take 3, 4, 10 reference pictures for each part of the room. It takes all of 2 minutes but will save 100 times more. Better, I have them hold the card by a face. How simple!

I group shots according to part of the room in iview media pro, then open each group in Photoshop via Adobe RAW and adjust one perfectly and apply that to all of them.

Stuart,

Who said you aren't a whiz? The first attempt looks the most human! I like it. This is an endorsement for RSP and your practice with landscapes!

Asher

 

[Stefan Hellstrom]

My trial

The first one DxO V4 beta2: WB on lady's neck strap, +5deg Hue, Lighting at "Slight"

The scond one SP 2: WB on lady's neck strap, Auto exp, Portrait 3 color profile

/Stefan Hellstrom

 

[Don Lashier]

Ok, here's a retry mainly using desaturation rather than WB change. Again all done in C1:
EC -0.10, CC 0 WB 5500K/10 (on sweater), Sat -8.5%, WP set at 214
Note that the WB is almost exactly as shot, just a slight tint change.
Mixed lighting didn't turn out to be a problem afterall although that may be what threw the Camera AWB off a bit.

- DL

 

[Dierk Haasis]

I have just opened the original and have a few questions, specifically after considering the very differing results posted:

1. Do we want those people to look like they look or rather flatter them?
2. From what I see both wear light blue shirts; is this correct or have they been white [which would still mean a slight blue haze]?
3. Are the letters on the wall decoration white??

 

[Don Lashier]

2. From what I see both wear light blue shirts; is this correct or have they been white [which would still mean a slight blue haze]?

That's a question we've all been pondering. Initially I thought they both were pehaps a bit blue (which threw off AWB) but now believe the sweater is white. The gentleman's shirt I believe is very slightly blue, if nothing else from OB's.

I assume you usually want people pics to flatter. Usually this means warming the WB a bit as below.
Warm Version: EC -0.10, CC -5 WB 6100K/12, Sat -9%, WP set at 217
Note that all these settings interact and you can't change one in isolation.

- DL

 

[Asher Kelman]

Dierk,

Until Bev answers otherwise, one can reasonably assume that doe a social event, the people want to look great, and always like to be flattered but still not too much of a lie that it is obviously off track.

IOW, they want to look good, but realize you can't change the shape of their noses, but the metallic look, certainly, they don't want. According to Bev, the sweater had a slight blue hue perhaps.

The wood paneling behind should look like wood and not be anemic. The letters behind, I don't think are at this time critical, just keep near white I'd think would be great.

The emphasis is on a workflow that Bev might apply in future to similar situations. So it is not necessary to remove wrinkles etc.

This, BTW, is not an uncommon problem, to find several people with weird colors in an otherwise normally populated social event!

Asher

 

[Don Lashier]

I think another point to keep in mind is that (except perhaps for product photography) there is no single "correct" white balance. Under typical indoor (incadescent) lighting, things have a warm look, and even though flash may give a more neutral light it sometimes works to adjust WB warmer to provide the expected, less artificial, look.

My last example above is 500 degrees above apparant "true" WB. Here's an example of a shot adjusted up over 5000 degrees above "true" (note the "white" background).

- DL

 

[Dierk Haasis]

OK, here's my try, done a few things to get off the impression there's a deep colour cast [there isn't]. The main problem arises from a very uneven lighting due to the couple standing in a corner - look for the colour differences due to strongly varying luminance values in the two St. Patrick's gold pots. Another problem is the blue shirt and sweater, but if you look closely at the eyes, the teeth and the writing on the wall [I apologise to all religious people for this hollow pun, particularly Muslims].

I am very sure the attire is definitely not whitze, partially from other hints in the image [see above], and from my experience - people that age, class and awareness (of their own appearance) tend to avoid white but very often prefer light blue. Aczially the most often stay away from strong colours, going for slightly off or very light hues.

What I did in LightZone [there's several minor points that still need tweaking]:

0. LZ opens the RAW file with adjustments to the contrast and, in this case, a slight saturation boost.

1. Using the WB tool [called colour cast] I got rid of a slight greenish tinge that was in the photo. This greenish tint is due to the prominence of reddish-yello in the wall, the faces and through the man's shirt.

2. Using a ZoneMapper the overall contrast gets enhanced.

3. A ToneMapper [= contrast mask] gets some detail out of the man's trousers.

4. The midtones get a saturation boost, partly to enhance the [fresh] brown of the teint, partly to boost the green and gold in the pots [you need them or the photo has no counterpart].

5. Another ZoneMapper lightens the background to get rid of superfluous detail, change the colour slightly to a more friendly tone, and to extract the couple from the background. This boost gets rid of the perception of a cast much more than anything else I did.

6. The last ZoneMapper brightens the flashlight shadows.

7. Crop and rotate.

 

[StuartRae]

If I might be allowed to post one more effort, I'd like to make the following points:

1. I believe that there is some blue in the man's shirt. WB on the white of the eye seems to give the best overall colour. WB on the lady's top makes the pale green background of the St. Patrick's plaque too yellow. The top looks blue in parts because of reflection from the shirt.

2. If I apply a dose of the Shadow Illuminator plugin, I discover that the man's trousers are grey rather than black. It also brings out details in the lady's hair and the man's belt and watch strap.

3. The ugly part of the picture is the reflection on the lady's forehead and chin. Nothing I can do gets rid of it completely.

4. Sharpening doesn't do any favours to the skin texture, but I applied Focus Magic with a radius of 1 just to help with the softness introduced by downsampling.

RSP has a mind of its own when it comes to reporting WB settings - for similar renditions it never even closely matches those from other RCs.
For what it's worth, the WB on the man's eye is 4350/-4.

That's it - I promise I'll stop now :>)

Stuart

--------------------------
Edited to mention sharpening

 

[Bev Sampson]

Ok, here's a retry mainly using desaturation rather than WB change. Again all done in C1:
EC -0.10, CC 0 WB 5500K/10 (on sweater), Sat -8.5%, WP set at 214
Note that the WB is almost exactly as shot, just a slight tint change.
Mixed lighting didn't turn out to be a problem afterall although that may be what threw the Camera AWB off a bit.

- DL

Don, thank you. Here is the correction that I originally made back in March. Originally converted as tiff and I just reduced to jpg to show here. I think your rendition and mine are sort of similar.

I normally only correct exposure in RAW and make contrast, WB temp., sat., crop, straighten (a common problem with me) and sharpen in PSCS. I did not get the sweater white as you did. What do you think? I did, in my original editing back in March, correct the shine on both faces but that is not related to my original question relative to correcting skin tone. Bev

 

[Bev Sampson]

"" Aczially the most often stay away from strong colours, going for slightly off or very light hues.
""

Dierk, I agree and that is certainly true in my case. However these snowbirds in FL can be a slightly wild bunch in retirement. The sweater was white. Thank you for your contribution.