Fine Art Photography Papers Group Test

[Cem_Usakligil]

Hi,

For the past two weeks, I have been producing a wide range of test prints (both color and B&W) on various Baryta and Matte fine art photography papers from my Epson 3800. Today, Bart van der Wolf and I have spent an entire day to evaluate the results and to compare and judge the performance of these papers with respect to each other. We shall write a detailed review and share our conclusions with you here in this thread in the coming days.

Of course your first question will be about the papers we've tested. They were:

Baryta:
Ilford Gold Fibre Silk 310g
Hanhemuehle FineArt Baryta 325 g
Harman Gloss FB Al 320g
Harman Gloss FB Al Warmtone 320g
Innova FibaPrint White Gloss 300g

Matte
Harman Matt FB Mp 310g
Harman Matt FB Mp 310g Warmtone
Hahnemuehle Photo Rag 460g
Moab Entrada Fine Art Bright White 300g
Moab Entrada Fine Art Natural 300g
Innova Soft Textured Natural White 315g
Innova Smooth Cotton High White 315g

Please watch for this space for our review to unfold. If you have any specific questions or remarks, feel free to post here already.


Cheers,

Bart and Cem

 

[Asher Kelman]

A fabulous resource Cem and Bart! I'm so excited that you are working closely together! Tell, me is Bart tall and thin, since that's how I imagine him?

Asher

 

[Kathy Rappaport]

Ransom

Ummm, let's see who is the highest bidder for an image with both Cem and Bart in it?

Either Cem and Bart can pay me not to post or Asher can pay me to post it....or maybe I should print it on all of the assorted papers. On the other hand....(we need some humor here)

Editing to add that one of my most memorable experiences in both OPF and Travel was with those two.

 

[nicolas claris]

Wow! Cem and Bart I'm impressed!

What a hell of a job!

Though I do not do the printing myself, I have set this thread as "Sticky" so everyone may come back easily whenever they need…

Congrats to you both for that kinda Chrismas gift to OPFers!

 

[Andrew Stannard]

Hi,

This sounds like a great resource!

Am hoping to purchase either a 2880 or 3800 early next year so your timing is great!

Cheers,

 

[Ralph Eisenberg]

Seems like a very worthwhile initiative. Was the Epson Traditional Photo Paper (Exhibition Fiber Paper) not taken into account because it is not deemed an authentic Baryta paper, or because of limitations of time or limited interest in it?

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Seems like a very worthwhile initiative. Was the Epson Traditional Photo Paper (Exhibition Fiber Paper) not taken into account because it is not deemed an authentic Baryta paper, or because of limitations of time or limited interest in it?

Hi Ralph,

A very good question. The answer is not a straightforward one.

First of all, I have started this test process as a private project for choosing a set of papers for myself going forward. Initially, I had most of these papers and I have gone out and bought a set of Harman samplers since they were highly recommended by Eric Chan and LL. There were some other papers I wanted to test (such as the Epson Velvet/Ultrasmooth) but they were not readily available in small quantities and my private budget did not have the room for buying two boxes of 50xA2 sheets which are rather expensive as you can imagine.

When I was halfway down the road, I have asked Bart to help me out with the tests. And once we've gotten our heads together, our creative juices started to flow and soon we have realized that this story would definitely be very interesting to many OPF readers. That's when we have decided to turn it into a formal review.

So as you see, we have been limited to this initial set of papers. But as we shall explain in our test methodology in the following posts, it is rather easy to extend our tests to any new papers when and if they become available to us. If anyone is particularly interested in a paper which we don't have, one can always send us a small sampler pack and we shall test it gladly ;-).


Cheers,

 

[Ralph Eisenberg]

Will look forward to seeing your findings.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Almost there...

Dear All,

First of all, our apologies for the delay in publishing the test results. There were a couple of reasons such as adding a new paper to the test set (Harman Gloss FB Al Warmotone 320g), photographing the prints and producing detail crops from them and most importantly, being very busy with something called life.

But we are almost there, so please have a bit more patience with us.

Coming soon....


Cheers,

 

[Kathy Rappaport]

Big endeavor

Hi Cem...and Bart...

This is a big project with no timetable. We are interested to hear your results, but of course, family and work must come before (gasp) photography and personal projects.

 

[Ralph Eisenberg]

Just wanted to turn the screws a little.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Just wanted to turn the screws a little.

Ouch! Mea culpa, mea culpa.....

I really have to sit down and start typing, sigh!

Thanks Ralph for your extraordinary patience....


Cheers,

 

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Cem,

If you guys can also comment on any special tendency for particular papers to get bumps/curves from being left in the machine and how you deal with that, it would be helpful.

Asher

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

If you guys can also comment on any special tendency for particular papers to get bumps/curves from being left in the machine and how you deal with that, it would be helpful.

Hi Asher,

The papers Cem used in his printer were sheets, not rolls. There was one type that was already rather sensitive to handling and curling as a sheet though. I'd imagine it causing similar trouble when fed as a roll. We'll comment on that aspect with your question in mind.

Mind you, most of the work was/is done by Cem, so I won't rush to reveal stuff out of the context that Cem and I agreed upon. It's taking some tme, but it is a lot of work to prepare it properly and present the results in a useful format/layout.

Stay tuned ...

Bart

 

[Ralph Eisenberg]

Ouch! Mea culpa, mea culpa.....

I really have to sit down and start typing, sigh!

Thanks Ralph for your extraordinary patience....


Cheers,

It's pretty easy to turn the screws on other people. Much easier than presenting comparative printing results. So easy in fact that it really doesn't require much patience...

 

[Jerome Love]

This sounds so helpful. I can't wait to see the results, as I am preparing to offer prints for sale, I'd like to find a paper that I can trust. Thank you for taking the time out to do these things!

 

[Juergen Koslowski]

Would it be impolite to ask for a status report?

-- Juergen

 

[Asher Kelman]

Would it be impolite to ask for a status report?

-- Juergen

Have no fear, the results will be delivered. Cem is starting a new position and once that's underway he'll no doubt give us the results.

What are you printing with and what sort of work are you doing?

Asher

 

[Deleted member 55]

Do rolling papers count as fine art paper if an artist uses them during the artistic process?

 

[Asher Kelman]

Do rolling papers count as fine art paper if an artist uses them during the artistic process?

Will,

You can use what you like, coming from so close to the house of the mouse, disneyland, California! After all your, 9600 has a strong motor to drive the rollers, LOL! That's not what this is about. It's far the use of the finest papers to get the most impressive fine art reproductions or delivery of the most impact in photography with the reproduction of the highest ranges of tonality and color; but you knew that!

Asher

 

[Juergen Koslowski]

What are you printing with and what sort of work are you doing?

Asher

I've been to the last two Photokinas with the firm intention to finally decide on a printer, but haven't been able to make up my mind, despite getting nice test prints. Initially looking for an A3+ printer, after seeing the Epson 3800, A3+ didn't seem that large anymore. Canon's ipf 5100 would be another option, unfortunately, HP has a gap in its line-up with no 17 in counterpart for the Z 3200. The relatively high ink prices for the A3+ printers with their tiny cartriges is another concern. And then the bewildering paper choices! Here I was hoping to gain some insight from the test. As a matter of taste, I prefer matte or at least semi-matte papers to glossy ones.

Having moved to a new house last September, it turns out that the wall space for pictures isn't as large as we had assumed. So getting a smaller (A3+) printer might be the prudent way to get started. As there are very good internet print-services available in Germany (e.g. http://www.fotocommunity-prints.de) one could ship out really big prints to them as needed, while trying to lean the craft at a more modest level.

As to the work I do (strictly as a hobby), it's mostly been travel photography with an emphasis on nature, but also quite a bit of city-scapes (somewhat under-represented on my not-quite-up-to-date web page http://www.iti.cs.tu-bs.de/TI-INFO/koslowj/PHOTOS/index.html). I've dabbled with concert pictures and should update that area of my page. (As a mathematician, I've been taking pictures at conferences for a while now; the math community seems to appreciate that kind of service.) There are still some panoramas I need to put together, even some on slide film, which will require a new computer due to the size of the scans ;-)

-- Juergen

 

[Walter Hobbs]

Walter Hobbs

Hi Cem - I look forward to your results. I have been using a 3800 for over a year and I have tried almost all of the papers you mention. have you ever used Jon Cone's piezography K7 inks on cotton rag paper?

Walter

 

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Cem - I look forward to your results. I have been using a 3800 for over a year and I have tried almost all of the papers you mention. have you ever used Jon Cone's piezography K7 inks on cotton rag paper?

Walter

Hi Walter,

Thanks for joining in. I hope you will write for us your experience using the 3800 and the arrays of papers you have chosen. 4 things come to mind:

1. Color Gamut, Fidelity, Resolution, Brightness and Contrast?
   
2. Artifacts?
   
3. Paper and Ink costs and so relative value for each need you have?
   
4. Paper physical durability?

 

[Walter Hobbs]

Walter Hobbs

- I have had good success using Museo Silver Rag and Ilford Gallerie Gold Silk in the black & white mode on the 3800. I have tried a lot of paper and it sort of personal taste. I used mostly Silver Rag for a show I did in March. Recently I have purchased a 9880 and I am working on a commission for a number of large format prints. I am trying to use Cone K7 black inks (piezography) on Canson Infinity Photo Rag, I wonder what experience others may have had with either Canson paper or Cone's K7black inks. I am trying to use them because of the look they give me on cotton rag paper. The process is a little tricky...or maybe its just me. I used them a few years ago on cotton rag and a 2200, but it's not as easy as popping in a cartridge in a 2200. I have a number of prints using the k7 inks and Inova high white cotton and they have done very well - at least over a few years.

Walter