Floored in Camden, London '13 - Colour Street Photography

[Paul Abbott]

I had been floating around in Camden this afternoon, on a very hot day...

Floored in Camden, London '13 - Paul Abbott​

 

[Asher Kelman]

I had been floating around in Camden this afternoon, on a very hot day...

Floored in Camden, London '13 - Paul Abbott​

Paul,

Without color, we'd not immediately realize that the chap on the ground is not likely to be a street bum. One can see his so pink skin, not ingrained with the grit that comes from street living over long periods of time. I wonder whether the notion of clean skin can be implied without color or seeing a scene related to cleanliness.

Asher

 

[Paul Abbott]

Too right Asher, you've made a great point there...
My colour quest goes on even with this image... I liked the contrast of his colourful attire, and those orange/ red rimmed shades just kill me every time I view the image. Anyway, this fella' is nowhere near a 'street bum' at all, but as for that looking the case in B&W, the distinction is lessened somewhat.

Regards...

 

[James Lemon]

I think I would have left him with what little bit of privacy he has left.

 

[Asher Kelman]

I think I would have left him with what little bit of privacy he has left.

James,

When a lady's undies appeared at her ankles as she climbs the stairway of a London double Decker bus, that one refrains from photographing! This fellow, OTOH, is fair game. either he has diabetic coma of some sort or some other malady or heat stroke and needs an ambulance or else he was cognitive and responsible for himself and fair game. He gives up privacy when he plops himself down on a public street!

Asher

 

[James Lemon]

James,

When a lady's undies appeared at her ankles as she climbs the stairway of a London double Decker bus, that one refrains from photographing! This fellow, OTOH, is fair game. either he has diabetic coma of some sort or some other malady or heat stroke and needs an ambulance or else he was cognitive and responsible for himself and fair game. He gives up privacy when he plops himself down on a public street!

Asher

I don't have a problem with that Asher. I am just saying it is a photo I would have passed on unless there was something very compelling to bring a story together. As this stands it is just a picture of a common drunk with bright colored sunglasses. In my opinion there is nothing here.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

... This fellow, OTOH, is fair game. either he has diabetic coma of some sort or some other malady or heat stroke and needs an ambulance or else he was cognitive and responsible for himself and fair game. He gives up privacy when he plops himself down on a public street!

Asher

I disagree with you on this Asher. Yes, being on the street is giving up one's privacy to a certain degree but it doesn't mean that we should go ahead and exploit it. Suppose that he was indeed sick, does this make him fair game? And what about his dignity? Please don't start about the rights of photographers. just ask yourself the question. If you were that man lying on the street, would you object to your picture being published here or not? I know the answer already.

 

[Asher Kelman]

I disagree with you on this Asher. Yes, being on the street is giving up one's privacy to a certain degree but it doesn't mean that we should go ahead and exploit it. Suppose that he was indeed sick, does this make him fair game? And what about his dignity? Please don't start about the rights of photographers. just ask yourself the question. If you were that man lying on the street, would you object to your picture being published here or not? I know the answer already.

Cem,

I'd have checked him out and got an ambulance there if need be. I would not have taken a picture as it doesn't fit my triggers for shooting for art or social value. Still I value Paul's informed esthetics from his own windows to the world around him. I do not feel he trespassed, he has not my medical expertise, AFIK, so being where he is, it's not unreasonable to assume that the chap is drunk. It's important for me to to trust his intentions. That's my frame of reference, not "myself being there" as I'd not allow myself to be in that position in the first place.

Once someone has produced such a body of work that has moved us, it's my job to understand and catch up, not the artist's job to win me over anew.

Not saying this is likely to be important, but I have already learned from this picture.

Asher

 

[Paul Abbott]

I'm not about to divulge all of what happened here, you guys can make up your own mind, and if your offended by it then i'm not about to change your mind. As well as being a 'street' photograph, it's also a 'documentary' one and the job is done if it's made you think about this guy like this or otherwise...
I've done my fair share of talking to drunks and homeless people in the street and they don't give a *hit about what they do or how they look, i'm not about to start inanely concerning myself now.

Asher is right, and his comment goes without saying IMO...As for exploiting, how am I doing that? I'm exploiting this guy's notable deed and feat, i'll give you that...

Btw, I wonder if you'd adopt the same 'privacy' related view to some of HCB's images, namely 'On the Banks of the Marne', Marseilles 1932 and The Coronation of King George, to mention a few...

All this privacy related, nonsense talk irks me...

 

[James Lemon]

I'm not about to divulge all of what happened here, you guys can make up your own mind, and if your offended by it then i'm not about to change your mind. As well as being a 'street' photograph, it's also a 'documentary' one and the job is done if it's made you think about this guy like this or otherwise...
I've done my fair share of talking to drunks and homeless people in the street and they don't give a *hit about what they do or how they look, i'm not about to start inanely concerning myself now.

Asher is right, and his comment goes without saying IMO...As for exploiting, how am I doing that? I'm exploiting this guy's notable deed and feat, i'll give you that...

Btw, I wonder if you'd adopt the same 'privacy' related view to some of HCB's images, namely 'On the Banks of the Marne', Marseilles 1932 and The Coronation of King George, to mention a few...

All this privacy related, nonsense talk irks me...

Paul the image you presented here says nothing! Sorry.In reference to Trafalgar Square on the Day of Coronation of George VI , London 1937. A photograph in which a spectator in Trafalgar Square has slipped from his perch on a wall. He lies in cozy oblivion amid the trash while the royal procession in which everyone else is absorbed passes him by. One of the niceties being observed on this ceremonial occasion is that nobody has taken the mans seat. to do so would be to acknowledge his indiscretion.There is an underlying story to the image that shows us something.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

..All this privacy related, nonsense talk irks me...

Judging by certain reactions you've given in other threads, you seem to get irked by many things Paul. I suppose it will also irk you if I say that you should relax a bit more; this is the internet after all which is full of irritating people. I'll refrain from interacting with you from now on, as I only talk nonsense anyway.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Judging by certain reactions you've given in other threads, you seem to get irked by many things Paul. I suppose it will also irk you if I say that you should relax a bit more; this is the internet after all which is full of irritating people. I'll refrain from interacting with you from now on, as I only talk nonsense anyway.

Cem,

That's an overreaction, as have been several of our social comments! I hope you'll rethink this and still comment on such socially complex issues that Paul might show. We have to encourage diversity or with so many different points of view, we'd have a lot of barriers put up! We also need to know where boundaries are from many perspectives. Think of it! Not commenting at all is actually failing to contribute what's needed to the matrix of fair intellectual reaction and emotional response, so we'd lose out! Your point of view, however it might be, is a valid component of community feelings.

Both of you are fine individuals, exceptional photographers with a personal perspective of the world informed by experience, history and a sense of self-worth. But the components of what brought you to this point are diverse and different. So there'll be clashes, but don't draw lines like this. We must allow for offense to occur without taking extreme umbrage.

People have taken offense at Diane Arbus's photography of dwarfs, mentally ill and marginal social misfits. Read this.

I went to a retrospective exhibition in Paris and had to walk out, to be followed by a fellow who collapsed from nausea. Still, I'd give her room for her expression and Paul's picture is not even 5% as controversial!

We can't document a cleansed world and be honest! I'm very happy that this picture has evoked strong responses. If not it would be that we've become hardened and indifferent. If it's there, then 50 years from now people will see how it was and not in a sterilized way and again people will no doubt argue the ethics of taking the picture in the first place!

Asher

 

[Paul Abbott]

Hey James, I cannot believe what you've said about this image not saying anything! If anything, it says something about the human condition doesn't it?
Also, it's mostly homeless types of people you see looking like this but I doubt very much that this guy is homeless judging by his clothes...I also think there is a sense of humour in the guy's dress code, what with those glasses he's wearing, they make me laugh.
Anyway, for me it's another scene really worth documenting, for all of the above reasons...and because it's incongruous and out of order.

I never want to photograph people unless there is some contrast, symmetry, analogy or incongruity going on and I think this scene has a couple of those qualities.
Anyway, having said this I would like to hear you define to me why it doesn't say anything to you?

Asher, that is so well said. It was very useful you putting forward Diane Arbus's name. I find that having a huge and varied appreciation of all of what has gone before is like having a photographic mode d' emploi inside your mind...

 

[James Lemon]

Hey James, I cannot believe what you've said about this image not saying anything! If anything, it says something about the human condition doesn't it?
Also, it's mostly homeless types of people you see looking like this but I doubt very much that this guy is homeless judging by his clothes...I also think there is a sense of humour in the guy's dress code, what with those glasses he's wearing, they make me laugh.
Anyway, for me it's another scene really worth documenting, for all of the above reasons...and because it's incongruous and out of order.

I never want to photograph people unless there is some contrast, symmetry, analogy or incongruity going on and I think this scene has a couple of those qualities.
Anyway, having said this I would like to hear you define to me why it doesn't say anything to you?

Asher, that is so well said. It was very useful you putting forward Diane Arbus's name. I find that having a huge and varied appreciation of all of what has gone before is like having a photographic mode d' emploi inside your mind...

This is kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. Literally a documentary photograph is a police report on a dead body or car accident or something of that nature. This type of photograph is made out of indifference without any feeling for the subject. How did you know that this person was not already dead when you made this image ? Where were his friends? was anybody trying to help him in any way? I honestly don't see the humor and I would expect someone with your talent and knowledge would be more inspired to take pictures of something more challenging than this ? To me it is still just a picture of a drunk passed out on the street.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Jim,

Yes, it's something like shooting fish in a barrel, but this is not a hunting expedition where the rules would be not to do that. My concern would be that he has a diabetic coma or the like! It's a social dilemma. If he's just drunk, calling an ambulance is a useless and even perhaps a dangerous diversion of essential rescue services!

So back to taking pictures. Why not let each do according to their own personal guide. The fellow is either ill or irresponsible. We can just pass by, but if we all did this, then, how would the streets be documented without bias?

Do we just take pictures of folk who are sober and behaving nicely?

Asher

 

[James Lemon]

Jim,

We can just pass by, but if we all did this, then, how would the streets be documented without bias?

Do we just take pictures of folk who are sober and behaving nicely?



Asher

Give it a conscience!

No but they should have some design and thought put into them otherwise they just become a compilation of facts and a list of items.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Give it a conscience!

No but they should have some design and thought put into them otherwise they just become a compilation of facts and a list of items.

For sure we're not a bunch of folk pouring on praise without reserve. I'm, glad there's an array of opinions. We have to be honest and not give stuff a pass we have issues about. I'm proud of the lack of gushing accolades being uniformly delivered to each and every picture Paul shows. In the end, the positive comments will stand out as being so validated as they are earned!

It's easy to morph into a mutual admiration society. I'd rather see Cem's and your reservations than not, as we get balance.

As to design and going beyond a compilation of facts, I accept your comment as valid but believe that Paul will unquestionably master this issue with future images. After all, it's only recently that he's been sharing "people pictures". When I think of Paul Abbott's work, monumental sculptures and buildings come to mind, not people. So this new wave of street is a journey that, at least with the Ricoh GR and its snap focus, is just beginning it's opening steps.

Asher

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Hi Paul,

As Asher has said, I may have overreacted somewhat; apologies for that.

Cem,

That's an overreaction, as have been several of our social comments! I hope you'll rethink this and still comment on such socially complex issues that Paul might show. We have to encourage diversity or with so many different points of view, we'd have a lot of barriers put up! We also need to know where boundaries are from many perspectives. Think of it! Not commenting at all is actually failing to contribute what's needed to the matrix of fair intellectual reaction and emotional response, so we'd lose out! Your point of view, however it might be, is a valid component of community feelings....

My thoughts are along the same lines as James' and I stand by them. The point Asher made is valid, we have room for a diversity of opinions; there is no need to try to convince each other of the validity of ours.

Regardless of this disagreement, which was not about your person or your body of work, I have always liked your images and will remain to do so.

 

[Paul Abbott]

No worries, Cem. We're all different and of different colours and that's what makes the world go round. I have sometimes wanted to stop it just so that I could get off for a bit...

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

No worries, Cem. We're all different and of different colours and that's what makes the world go round. I have sometimes wanted to stop it just so that I could get off for a bit...

Thanks for your understanding.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Thanks everyone!

No worries, Cem. We're all different and of different colours and that's what makes the world go round. I have sometimes wanted to stop it just so that I could get off for a bit...

Paul,

You are so right!

Here in OPF, we're allowed to admire, accept, argue, allow, (or at worse, just barely tolerate) facets of our diversity: different poetry, architecture and expression of affection or devotion that each of us, (within separate cultures and life paths), make our own "free" choices. Actually, we're all in overlapping bubbles of delusion, to some extent. When we make pictures from what we see or create, it's really a partial "self-revelation" to this community we post here.

The last thing I'd want from online critique here is cramping self-censorship in posting images or else not hiding our visceral and intellectual reactions. Even when something is utterly foreign, we can recognize and celebrate the difference that give this forum texture!

In truth, I really value these disagreements! They're the spice that make food especially interesting.



Asher

 

[fahim mohammed]

Paul, Camden is a good photographer's haunt.

Best.