Dr Klaus Schmitt
Well-known member
This is a Petzval design lens and I will present images in two parts:
I) Asian Style
I) Asian Style
-
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Hermagis Projection Lens does flowers
- Thread starter Dr Klaus Schmitt
- Start date
Dr Klaus Schmitt
Well-known member
Antonio Correia
Well-known member
I am speechless !
What a bokeh !
I do like most: the first and the last one !
What a bokeh !
I do like most: the first and the last one !
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I) Asian Style
Now Karl, we are rocking with the Petzval aberrations. I simply love it. This allows such a lot more facets of enjoyment to burst out of the flat plane of the image. Once again, the particular lens is needed to give this unique result. This is impossible to achieve with a Canon 1.2 L, even wide open. So lenses do matter and that's great. It supports a broad set of qualities of expression starting with just a a flower in great light.
Once again, a superb match of artifact, lens super-sharpness and your imagination. Let me repeat, I love it and if you were my son, I'd be telling strangers about you, "My son the doctor!"
Asher
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Karl? I meant Kalus! Too much Bordeaux!
Could you explain how you control, if you do, the presence or absence of the blobs of white. Is it more a matter of whether or not there happens to be OOF brights in the filed of view and this is not just a matter of aperture alone?
Asher
Could you explain how you control, if you do, the presence or absence of the blobs of white. Is it more a matter of whether or not there happens to be OOF brights in the filed of view and this is not just a matter of aperture alone?
Asher
Dr Klaus Schmitt
Well-known member
I cannot, as I am Klaus, not Karl ;-)
Karl would most likely have said, that he controls the "blobs" by carefully selecting the background for "holes of light" that he uses to stimulate those blobs (for instance a tree which shades, but not totally to darkness). Choosing a rather even background without any "light holes" avoids those blobs on contrary.
A friend in Asia asked me why I called that Asian vs European Style: Well, I see a lot of bokeh "bubbles" is asian photography and the love for old lenses with visible lens aberrations, this is why I called part I "Asian Style" (with all due respect, as I also like that and use it often). The classic European style is to actually avoid that, and also why so many lenses are highly corrected and now render so cold and often emotionless. This I called "European style" (also with all due respect of course). So this is why your famous Canon 1.2/85mm will not be able to reproduce this, only lenses with pronounced lens aberrations such as this Petzval design lens - and at any aperture (which only controls the size the blobs). The aperture play no role in this, as this lens does not have an aperture at all. What does have an impact is also the relative distance of the object in regards to the blob stimulating BG. The closer one gets (= higher magnification), the larger the blobs get.
BTW. focusing is rather tricky using such a lens, as there is no real point of sharpness that "jumps" into your eye, rather a soft transition sharpness zone with different attributes of sharpness, so one has to pick one ...
Karl would most likely have said, that he controls the "blobs" by carefully selecting the background for "holes of light" that he uses to stimulate those blobs (for instance a tree which shades, but not totally to darkness). Choosing a rather even background without any "light holes" avoids those blobs on contrary.
A friend in Asia asked me why I called that Asian vs European Style: Well, I see a lot of bokeh "bubbles" is asian photography and the love for old lenses with visible lens aberrations, this is why I called part I "Asian Style" (with all due respect, as I also like that and use it often). The classic European style is to actually avoid that, and also why so many lenses are highly corrected and now render so cold and often emotionless. This I called "European style" (also with all due respect of course). So this is why your famous Canon 1.2/85mm will not be able to reproduce this, only lenses with pronounced lens aberrations such as this Petzval design lens - and at any aperture (which only controls the size the blobs). The aperture play no role in this, as this lens does not have an aperture at all. What does have an impact is also the relative distance of the object in regards to the blob stimulating BG. The closer one gets (= higher magnification), the larger the blobs get.
BTW. focusing is rather tricky using such a lens, as there is no real point of sharpness that "jumps" into your eye, rather a soft transition sharpness zone with different attributes of sharpness, so one has to pick one ...
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
But the result, my good friend Klaus, (for sure), is amazingly like a movie poster for some epic with all sorts of action going on everywhere all over the surface of the page, with each item proposing itself as a 3D live event.
Asher
Dr Klaus Schmitt
Well-known member
Thanks Antonio! Yes a lens that allows for impressive "effects".
Dr Klaus Schmitt
Well-known member
I guess this is why that style is liked so much in Asia, as indeed there is so much "going on" optically in such an image and it does have quite an "effect" - too much often for me, so I'd rather use it very controlled only ever so often to enhance a certain image. It quite can have some dramatic effect...
This is the same flower as above, just shifted my position to get a nearby tree into the BG and some dark clouds behind.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I guess this is why that style is liked so much in Asia, as indeed there is so much "going on" optically in such an image and it does have quite an "effect" - too much often for me, so I'd rather use it very controlled only ever so often to enhance a certain image. It quite can have some dramatic effect...
This is the same flower as above, just shifted my position to get a nearby tree into the BG and some dark clouds behind.
To me that's sensogasmistic, LOL!
What focal length and aperture?
Asher
Dr Klaus Schmitt
Well-known member
Thanks. My Hermagis is a rather rare one I found a while ago, f=80mm. No opening f-stop is given but should be around f2
Dr Klaus Schmitt
Well-known member
BTw. Polish company LOMO had a kickstarter project to re-introduce such PETZVAL lens to the market.
It is available as a product now: http://microsites.lomography.com/petzval-lens/
A fine lens I have to say, especially in shiny brass finish. Comes in Canon EF and Nikon F mount and
has f=85mm, very nice for portraits.
Tech Datasheet is HERE
It is available as a product now: http://microsites.lomography.com/petzval-lens/
A fine lens I have to say, especially in shiny brass finish. Comes in Canon EF and Nikon F mount and
has f=85mm, very nice for portraits.
Tech Datasheet is HERE
Andy brown
Well-known member
Dr. Klaus,
these are superb, as is all your work but suddenly with the introduction of the "Asian" flavour I'm really feeling the images as opposed to looking at them (albeit with great admiration for the subject matter and the technical prowess). The painterly feel that comes through takes me too a world of whimsy which is exactly how I like to feel the world of plants and flowers (likewise the underwater world).
I remember a few years ago I remarked on your securing of a special Russian lens and wondered what cloak and dagger mission had been involved in its acquisition. Your reaction (or lack of one) at the time made me think "O.K, the Doc is great at technical mastery but probably doesn't have too may creative bones".
This series dispels that thought in no uncertain terms.
Bravo!
these are superb, as is all your work but suddenly with the introduction of the "Asian" flavour I'm really feeling the images as opposed to looking at them (albeit with great admiration for the subject matter and the technical prowess). The painterly feel that comes through takes me too a world of whimsy which is exactly how I like to feel the world of plants and flowers (likewise the underwater world).
I remember a few years ago I remarked on your securing of a special Russian lens and wondered what cloak and dagger mission had been involved in its acquisition. Your reaction (or lack of one) at the time made me think "O.K, the Doc is great at technical mastery but probably doesn't have too may creative bones".
This series dispels that thought in no uncertain terms.
Bravo!
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Klaus,
I doubt that the Lomo 85mm could give both the biting sharp center and the creamy b.g. you have achieved here. The Hermagis seems very different indeed from the pictures they show on the Lomo website.
Asher
Dr Klaus Schmitt
Well-known member
I wanted to elaborate a bit on (such type of) bokeh...
Hermagis 80mm at approx f2 (fully open)
iPhone5 image
Its pretty obvious now I hope...
Hermagis 80mm at approx f2 (fully open)
iPhone5 image
Its pretty obvious now I hope...
Dr Klaus Schmitt
Well-known member
Thanks a lot, I take your words as a great compliment as indeed I left behind the technicalities and only "feel the flow" when I'm out there and take photos more intuitively of what just comes to me ...
That's why I actually don't like to "take apart" and explain the why's and how's as has been done before. It's a bit hurtful for me as it actually distracts from the magic for me.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Klaus,
The vividness, beauty and cool drama works just right with your metal brain flow and the lens to your eye with quite a number of unique lenses. But here, the effects seem to reach their peak as Petzval life is added to Biogen smooth! I'm certain you would do well with almost any modern or old lens, taking advantage each time of individual nuances, flaws and strengths to paint with light.
Just for my education, how far have you gone towards this painterly, alive Hermagis effect with your flowers using the brand new 85mm f2.2 Petzval from Lomography?
Of course, the honed imagination and pre-visualization of a flower transformed by your art cannot be packaged with any lens purchased off ebay!
Asher
The vividness, beauty and cool drama works just right with your metal brain flow and the lens to your eye with quite a number of unique lenses. But here, the effects seem to reach their peak as Petzval life is added to Biogen smooth! I'm certain you would do well with almost any modern or old lens, taking advantage each time of individual nuances, flaws and strengths to paint with light.
Just for my education, how far have you gone towards this painterly, alive Hermagis effect with your flowers using the brand new 85mm f2.2 Petzval from Lomography?
Of course, the honed imagination and pre-visualization of a flower transformed by your art cannot be packaged with any lens purchased off ebay!
Asher
Dr Klaus Schmitt
Well-known member
I haven't bought that new Petzval nor do I plan on doing so....
Never been a "hype" type, I rather search for the unknown sleepers
- and it has to be difficult to use, otherwise it is no challenge ;-)
Never been a "hype" type, I rather search for the unknown sleepers
- and it has to be difficult to use, otherwise it is no challenge ;-)
Jarmo Juntunen
Well-known member
These are all amazing! I love the almost surreal feel in some of the pictures, how everything appears very sharp and and very blurry at the same time. Have you worked this or any other vintage lenses on other subject than flowers?