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In Search Of Excellence

I wish to make some important corrections concerning digital high-end prices and digital quality.

- a Sinar Hy6 with eMotion 75 LV (33.3 Mpx) has an enduser price of Euro 24'000.-.
With 3 or 4 lenses this puts the complete kit at about Euro 30'000,-, depending which lenses you choose.

Thanks Thierry,

with regards to capital expenditure by a professional who is not in advertising, the highest payed sector, but rather a poor chap like me selling prints and not charging by the hour, a question comes to mind.

Such an Investement would be much easier to make if there would be a strategy in place that helps the Pro to future proof his investement.

See, where I totally agree with Klaus is the time factor. Klaus even concluded that any hi tech investement in photography above 10K is highly questionable, he would not do that anymore if I understood him correct.

If for example Sinar would have a plan in place that allows a future proof investment in a way that there is an upgrade plan at reasonable costs available, may be there is and I just do not know about it, say, I buy in 2008 for 30K whatsoever, and that includes a 33MP LVeMotion just for example, and in early 2009 Sinar would come out with a new LVeMotion with ISO 1200 and 60MP for example, and if they would take back the 33MP then and offer the upgrade at reasonable costs, that I would call future proof investment into technology.

Do I make sense?
 
Dear Georg,

that's where opinions differ: if it is worth to do the investment in high-end digital or not.
That question can not be answered and given a general definitive answer. It depends on your loadwork. Here I certainly do not agree with Klaus, that over 10'000.- investment is questionable, simply because it cannot be generalized.

FYI: there is of course an upgrade path, from one product to a newer one. It is in place since years and does allow the customers to upgrade their tool for a reasonable price, although the word "reasonable" is understood differently by some. But it exist and protects your investment.

You do make sense!

Best regards,
Thierry

Thanks Thierry,

with regards to capital expenditure by a professional who is not in advertising, the highest payed sector, but rather a poor chap like me selling prints and not charging by the hour, a question comes to mind.

Such an Investement would be much easier to make if there would be a strategy in place that helps the Pro to future proof his investement.

See, where I totally agree with Klaus is the time factor. Klaus even concluded that any hi tech investement in photography above 10K is highly questionable, he would not do that anymore if I understood him correct.

If for example Sinar would have a plan in place that allows a future proof investment in a way that there is an upgrade plan at reasonable costs available, may be there is and I just do not know about it, say, I buy in 2008 for 30K whatsoever, and that includes a 33MP LVeMotion just for example, and in early 2009 Sinar would come out with a new LVeMotion with ISO 1200 and 60MP for example, and if they would take back the 33MP then and offer the upgrade at reasonable costs, that I would call future proof investment into technology.

Do I make sense?
 
FYI: there is of course an upgrade path, from one product to a newer one. It is in place since years and does allow the customers to upgrade their tool for a reasonable price, although the word "reasonable" is understood differently by some. But it exist and protects your investment.


Fantastic! Where can I find out the details?

Also, is there something like an extended warranty available, something like 5 years, if so at what costs?

Many thanks Thierry!

P.S. "reasonable", yeah well, you have not seen me negotiating yet. LOLOLOL ;)
Seriously though, I really think this is good news for anyone considering to invest into hitech photography tools.
 
Details of upgrade paths are alway known by our distributors. But in the future they shall be publshed as well by Sinar on their homepage.

No, there is no 5-year warranty period possible: the Sinar warranty covers 3 years, others have 1 year with additional costs for extension to 2 or 3 years. Sinar has it since ever at 3 years.

Moreover, we guaranty a availability of spare parts and servicing/repairs for at least 10 years for each Sinar product. If this is not possible to hold, for availability of spare parts, then Sinar does always help the customer for a reasonable upgrade.

Thierry

Fantastic! Where can I find out the details?

Also, is there something like an extended warranty available, something like 5 years, if so at what costs?

Many thanks Thierry!

P.S. "reasonable", yeah well, you have not seen me negotiating yet. LOLOLOL ;)
Seriously though, I really think this is good news for anyone considering to invest into hitech photography tools.
 
Excellent, I look forward to reading all about it on Sinar's site then. This is really crucial to me and of great value towards making an informed decision.

3 years is good, I intend to write of such an investment against taxes in that very period.

10 years spare parts is re assuring in deed!
 

Klaus Esser

pro member
Dear Klaus,

I wish to make some important corrections concerning digital high-end prices and digital quality.

- a Sinar Hy6 with eMotion 75 LV (33.3 Mpx) has an enduser price of Euro 24'000.-.
With 3 or 4 lenses this puts the complete kit at about Euro 30'000,-, depending which lenses you choose. That is still money, agreed, but in no relation with the Euro 50'000.- mentioned.

- this system will possibly loose on "market" value with the years. So does any equipment. The digital system will have exactly the value yourself are valuing it: in other words, it will do the same job for you from day one and continue to do this after years, like analog. If it has given you the IQ at the beginning it will continue to give you the same, if it did do the job, it will continue to do it.

- I can assure you that a 22 MPx digital back with multi-shot capability does get you to the quality of 8x10 and even surpass it in terms of modulation and tonal values: there is a reason why museums worldwide are using digital technology nowadays to reproduce their collection digitally, and it is not a cost factor, but a IQ one.

Best regards,
Thierry


Hi Thierry!

First let me say that i maybe generalised a bit.

I often use digital backs or cameras like a H3D and know their advantages. There is no question about it at all. Fine gear.

Recently i had a series of assignments which i intended to use a H3D for - and skipped it. I had to do shots of - as i mentioned before - fast moving horses for a picture of 7m wide printed @150dpi.
I did some tests with a H3D and realized it wouldn´t work well. Finally i used a 6x17 camera with a 50ASA Velvia and drumscanned it. Worked very well.

I had another assignment - shooting a pianist on stage from behind the piano with a view to the audience´s seats.

Fov. with the H3D gave me was too limited - i´d have to add light to get more dof and i didn´t want to add more light for balancing delicately the light in the audience´s seats and the stage. I used a big Chimera lightbox on stage and a smaller one as a fill-in.

So we decided to use an 1DsMkIII which gave us more dof. The shots were fine - but too small for the needed size of printing. The resolution of 21mpx didn´t do. So we shot again using a 6x9 analogue with a 200ASA Kodak, drumscanned it and it was perfect! Who cares of a bit of grain? Nobody did. The shot "lived", was crisp and sharp and of a wonderfull deepness and richness of tones. Even printed big.
We additionally used a bit noise-reduction on the film-grain . . . and came very close to the cleanness of the digital-shots.

So what does it tell us?

(sorry: i have to leave for a date. Be back on this very interesting theme in the evening)

best, Klaus

"there is a reason why museums worldwide are using digital technology nowadays to reproduce their collection digitally, and it is not a cost factor, but a IQ one."

that´s an interesting point!
Museums make digital reproductions. That´s - sorry - not the kind of photography i am talking of . . . ;-)
besides: museums usually have big etats for technical stuff.

And: i definitely doubt that a 22mpx multishot gives me the quality of an 8x10" drumscanned 50ASA film.
Besides of that: you can shoot an 8x10" let´s say in 1/60sec. How long takes a multishot?
And: are you really saying a 22mpx digital multishot could top a 4000dpi 1,2gpx scan of an 8x10" one-shot-tranny?

And EVEN IF it were so: an 8x10" with a very good lens costs about 2000.-€ on ebay . . .

I mean: it´s always a question what you REALLY need! And what you REALLY can afford!
 
Last edited:

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
The above discussion has been initiated by Geor Baumann.

He has asked this discussion to be moved here…

Please continue here after…
 
I wish you would have cut out from my first post on page 2, as there was already some technical stuff about it mentioned before by other folks as well....
 
I mean: it´s always a question what you REALLY need! And what you REALLY can afford!

.... and as you have demonstrated eloquently, it appears as if we still need more than one system, depending on what one really needs of course.

The example with the Pianist was fascinating in deed!

At the end, it is your extensive experience that allows you to "feel" what works and what doesn't, what provides you with the best possible quality for any given subject.

You are in a good position to be able to rent gear and add it to your pricing, this in deed is a valid option for anyone being booked by the hour or for a project. Rainer Viertelboeck I suppose is one of those as well in his chosen speciality of architecture, however, I think he bought into the SINAR system instead of renting it.

Hopefully Rainer finds some time to chime in at some stage, would be interesting to hear his thoughts on film and the future of film as well.
 
On a side note...

Concerning the analog side of technology, some of you might find this interesting:

How can I compare the focal lengthes between different analog and digital formats?
Please use our "Comparable Focal Length Calculator" based on Excel. The newest version offers base information about various photographical formats, an overview of comparable focal lengths, personal comparisons, a free calculation form (now also with stitched formats) for angles, ratios and shift, macro extensions, magnifications levels and effective f-stop.

http://www.alpa.ch/knowledgebase/questions/22/How+can+I+compare+the+focal+lengthes+between+different+analog+and+digital+formats%3F

In general, if you goof around on the ALPA knowledge base site, you find some interesting informations there.
 

Klaus Esser

pro member
Dear Georg,

that's where opinions differ: if it is worth to do the investment in high-end digital or not.
That question can not be answered and given a general definitive answer. It depends on your loadwork. Here I certainly do not agree with Klaus, that over 10'000.- investment is questionable, simply because it cannot be generalized.

FYI: there is of course an upgrade path, from one product to a newer one. It is in place since years and does allow the customers to upgrade their tool for a reasonable price, although the word "reasonable" is understood differently by some. But it exist and protects your investment.

You do make sense!

Best regards,
Thierry

Hi Thierry!

With the investment-sumof 10k i meant George´s case. It´s not really comparable with the situation of advertising photographers which make the amount of money in one month which George hopefully makes in a whole year . . ;-)
The relations should be balanced i mean. Today you´ll never know what happens the next 3 months. Maybe you haven´t jobs for the next two or three months - and just bought equipment for 40000.-€ . . .

That´s not a very comfortable feeling . . but it happens. The problem is: you never know WHEN it will happen.

btw.:
"- a Sinar Hy6 with eMotion 75 LV (33.3 Mpx) has an enduser price of Euro 24'000.-.
With 3 or 4 lenses this puts the complete kit at about Euro 30'000,-, depending which lenses you choose."

Indeed that depends heavily on the lenses you choose . . ;-)


I see your point very clear! And from a technological viewpoint i agree in parts of it.
In the end there is no way around gigital.

But look at me: i´m a photographer who works 3-4 jobs a month - i don´t need more. And i don´t want more ( i know how it is to work 3-4 jobs a week . . and i hated it).

I don´t like to work 75% of my time to pay an expensive studio, refined equipment and some aides. Most of the time in my career i did exact that!
I wouldn´t complain about that - was funny times after all - but i wouldn´t do it again today.

And i know lots of guys - good photographers - who see it the same way.
Especially young photographers, new to the business have a problem: everyone expects them to have the "modern" equipment. Clients expect highres digital gear. But they don´t want to pay fees that would allow the photographers to get their expensive equipment payed in short times and start to make profit.

In fact there´s a lot of photograpers who will never make profit at all - they got trapped in leasing-contracts, bank-loans and so on.
In other words: they lost their freedom. Financially and in a creative way. They become slaves of their costs.

When i would start as a photographer today - i would buy used MF and LF equipment and work with it and build up a good name as a photographer. Not as a perfectly equipped studio.

Can you imagine anybody to ask Annie Leibovitz or Peter Lindbergh which equipment they use?

I know what they use: anything a lens fits in . . . :) it´s the photographer´s spirit that counts.

In the meantime i hear clients say "we don´t care how you do the job - but please make it not looking digital, will you. We want "the edge" - not neccesaryly sharpness or cleanness. Everybody can shoot a clean and sharp picture" . . .

I said it before: who the hell cares about film-grain? They LOVE it . . . (little joke, but in some way realistic!)
Everybody today shoots clean and sharp digital pictures. Do we need all of them?

I think: no. :)

best, Klaus
 
LOL :)

I did not mean that thread to disclose or discuss details of my personal investment strategy. <grins> However, the total sum is much higher, much higher in deed! Then again, that's an entirely different story and does not belong into a public forum.

We came to the 10K becasue Klaus mentioned something about his own feeling on investing sums greater than that into hi tec gear these days considering rapid depreciation etc.

I agree on the sterile aspect of certain fotos, and the public attitude towards pixelpeeing and sharpness, well, I think it comes from the flood of digicams that everyone is using these days, and believe me, I have left fora on the grounds of such attitude being the dominating factor.

Grain/noise can be very attractive, if I am not mistaken there are even plugins available these days that add grain deliberatly to a digital shot to make it appear like a film. Now, how funny is that?! :)

It´s not really comparable with the situation of advertising photographers which make the amount of money in one month which George hopefully makes in a whole year

Hehehehe, well, I have no clue what they make in a month, but I doubt that I would be satisfied in making that in a year after I took the first hurdles of establishing us.

But I know what yo mean, you guys are ridiculously overpayed anyways. LOLOL .....<runs like Hell!> ;)

I know what they use: anything a lens fits in . . . :) it´s the photographer´s spirit that counts

I love that!

"- a Sinar Hy6 with eMotion 75 LV (33.3 Mpx) has an enduser price of Euro 24'000.-.
With 3 or 4 lenses this puts the complete kit at about Euro 30'000,-, depending which lenses you choose."

Indeed that depends heavily on the lenses you choose . . ;-)

Very true, one particular lense alone I will be using costs 5,600 Euros end user price. <gulp>
 
I would like to get back to what Thierry said about an even better modulation and tonal values using a 22MP instead of a 8x10.

I know Thierry to be very acurate, and he would not make such statement easy if he had no way of comparing it. It was here that Klaus had doubts on that, and I wonder, whether Thierry has some more informations for us how he came to this conclusion....

Thierry?
 

Klaus Esser

pro member
LOL :)

I did not mean that thread to disclose or discuss details of my personal investment strategy. <grins> However, the total sum is much higher, much higher in deed! Then again, that's an entirely different story and does not belong into a public forum.

We came to the 10K becasue Klaus mentioned something about his own feeling on investing sums greater than that into hi tec gear these days considering rapid depreciation etc.

I agree on the sterile aspect of certain fotos, and the public attitude towards pixelpeeing and sharpness, well, I think it comes from the flood of digicams that everyone is using these days, and believe me, I have left fora on the grounds of such attitude being the dominating factor.

Grain/noise can be very attractive, if I am not mistaken there are even plugins available these days that add grain deliberatly to a digital shot to make it appear like a film. Now, how funny is that?! :)



Hehehehe, well, I have no clue what they make in a month, but I doubt that I would be satisfied in making that in a year after I took the first hurdles of establishing us.

But I know what yo mean, you guys are ridiculously overpayed anyways. LOLOL .....<runs like Hell!> ;)



I love that!

Hi George!

Don´t take me word by word - i´m kidding a around a bit . . ;-)

I just wanted to point out the question of return of investions. Photographers around me try to avoid high investions in extraordinary expensive cameras as long as they can. There´s lots of other things when you start a business.

But that´s - i mentioned it - is my very personal view.

At the times i started to be a photographer 40000.-€ was 80000.-DM - we installed complete studios with so much money those days . . .
Today we should get just ONE camera and 3 lenses for the same money . . what about redundance?
Every pro has at least 2 identical bodies - just for sure. Nobody can afford to be on an assignement and a camera breaks down - so there has to be a second one. At least. That´s min. 24000.-€ additionally.

Well - maybe i see it a bit too critical . . i´m educated to do so . . . . i´m used to balance very critical what i pay and what i get for what i pay . . . :)

And in my eyes the amount of cost exeeds by far the amount of advantages over analogue film - sorry.
In fact, i can´t see a REAL advantage at all - regarding to handle analogue film with all consequences to get out what is in it.
Definitely handling with analogue film is less comfortable as using digital. Of course. No question about that.

But - i never rated comfort very high . . :)
 
Let me ask you before I forget that, what was that again you were talking about a "JOBU" or something like that, the complete maschine to develop 8x10 film I mean, and what drumscanners would you think to be worth looking at in case one likes to try the analog route and is interested in such gear?

Thanks Klaus :)
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Are you referring to a Jobo Processor? That will indeed allow you to process up to 20x24.

This is perfect for color and black and white, paper and film.

It is a daylight processor. Some still like to do B&W paper prints in a tray where agitation can be controlled as one looks at the developing print with a dark light. Some do not use a motor and for B&W simply roll it on the floor with ones foot or else use a simple set of rollers without a motor. This is available from the big stores too.

The CPP-2 is the one to get! There are more fancy machines, but this is a wonder machine and very well regarded. You need a lift to work with the larger drums and always an air foot-pump to get the silly top off without banging it on the edge of a table or getting a hernia or ripping off your finger nails. With the foot pump, the top pops off.

If you get this used, say from eBay, make sure it has the latest updates to the roller motor as this is needed for the larger drums. Read about this here They come with two versions, either European or USA voltage of 200 v or 110 volts respectively.

If that was not what you are referring to, at least you know about this now, if you didn't already.

Asher
 

Klaus Esser

pro member
Let me ask you before I forget that, what was that again you were talking about a "JOBU" or something like that, the complete maschine to develop 8x10 film I mean, and what drumscanners would you think to be worth looking at in case one likes to try the analog route and is interested in such gear?

Thanks Klaus :)

Hi Georg!


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/142714-REG/Jobo_4228_AutoLab_ATL_1500_Automatic_Film.html

http://www.jobousadarkroom.com/products.htm

http://www.firstcall-photographic.c...-processor-cpe-2-plus-starter-kit--4067/2322/

http://photography.search.ebay.com/jobo_Film-Processing-Darkroom_W0QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQsacatZ15224

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/scanners/drum_scans.shtml

I bought my Howtek desktop drumscanner D4000 for 2000.-€ including 2 extra drums and a mountig station. It weights about 60kg - but usually you don´t carry around a drumscanner . . :)

Of course it´s not an easy a way to get used to filmprocessing and scanning. You won´t handle it after a weekend´s training and profit from both´s capability.

It´s kind of craftsmenship - in my eyes belongs to photography.

best, Klaus
 
Of course it´s not an easy a way to get used to filmprocessing and scanning. You won´t handle it after a weekend´s training and profit from both´s capability.

Yeah, and I have no one around training me, or having a simliar interest where I am located at, and by the time where I am good at it, Sinar has long surpassed analog with their latest LVeMotion 1600 ISO 300 MP.... <grins>

But on a serious note, I certainly will try some films and have them developed and scanned by experienced craftsmen. I shall get back to you on that for a recommendation, as I said, I have no problem sending it to germany for such a purpose, if the quality is top notch!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Georg,

Let me suggest the following. Just get a used 8x10 from KEH or I could spec out one from Will Thompson and get itv with a reducing back. You'll start with 4x5 film using Fuji Ready Loads (or Kodak Quick Loads). That way you don't need to load your own film. now you simply send it to your local pro lab. Let them process it. You can scan with an Epson 700 series and that will probably be fine for your needs. If there is some image you need better than that shoot at 8x10 or else get that selected film/tranny scanned professionally. Chances are that 90% of all you pictures can be scanned on the Epson. You can scan for highlights and also for shadows separately. Vuescan software allows you to add up multiple scans to reduce noise.

You can graduate up from that and we can then discuss scanners but I'd not buy a drum scanner, rather a high level pro flat bed scanner.

The other place for used great equipment is KEH.

I also have a 6x12, 6x9, 6x7, 6c6 back; a digital stitching adapter to use my 5D. I must write my reviews!

Asher
 
Thanks Asher, I consider it.

Lets get back to IQ and what Thierry said earlier. Hoefully he comes back at some stage and tells us how he came to his conclusion on better modulation and tonals values on the 22MP than 8x10.

It appears that IQ is influenced by what the market wants, don't you think? Apart from scientific aspects of image quality, it is the market who decides on the final quality, but this is a changing, or better to say evolving thing. Now that inkjets are available at qualities we would not have dreamed about 10 years ago, and somewhat affordable, like the A2 3800 from Epson for example, the standards are higher so will be the expectations. Then again that depends entirely of the targeted prospects, a Gallery will have a much higher standard and expectation than a Retail outlet that serves tourists, not only on the picture itself, but also on the final print execution and presentation.

On a side note, Bart recommended some books, one of them arrived today, John C. Ross, The Image Processing Handbook, fifth edition, and yeah, I mean WOW, that is something to read for quite some time. Anyo9ne who wants to go deeper into that subject, this is the one to look out for.
 

Klaus Esser

pro member
Hi Georg,

Let me suggest the following. Just get a used 8x10 from KEH or I could spec out one from Will Thompson and get itv with a reducing back. You'll start with 4x5 film using Fuji Ready Loads (or Kodak Quick Loads). That way you don't need to load your own film. now you simply send it to your local pro lab. Let them process it. You can scan with an Epson 700 series and that will probably be fine for your needs. If there is some image you need better than that shoot at 8x10 or else get that selected film/tranny scanned professionally. Chances are that 90% of all you pictures can be scanned on the Epson. You can scan for highlights and also for shadows separately. Vuescan software allows you to add up multiple scans to reduce noise.

You can graduate up from that and we can then discuss scanners but I'd not buy a drum scanner, rather a high level pro flat bed scanner.

The other place for used great equipment is KEH.

I also have a 6x12, 6x9, 6x7, 6c6 back; a digital stitching adapter to use my 5D. I must write my reviews!

Asher


Hi Asher!

You´re right! Drumscanning is a bit hardcore. I learned that from 6x9cm or better 4x5" on a good flatbedscanner will do very fine. And scanning an 8x10" on a Linotype Saphir UltraII - which you can get for around 150.-€ these days results in that:
(heavy compressed jpg from a 16bit TIFF - i´ll try to find the original scan-file)

metaxa1024.jpg
 

Klaus Esser

pro member
Look at that, now... I am thirsty... LOL

I forgot that picture Klaus, but I remembered right away. What a beauty!

have a drink on me . . :)

Really - that´s done with a scanner which you can buy for app. 150.--200.-€ on ebay these days.
Scanned with 2400dpi on the flatbed you get a file of 24000x19000px and 1,2GB file-size.

I´ll look for a 4x5" scan from the same scanner.

ok - hier:
(scan from 4x5" Kodak negative) Screenshot!
block.jpg


best, Klaus
 

Erie Patsellis

pro member
I'll add to the list the Umax Powerlook III, basically the Umax version of the Saphir, if memory serves me. (actually Lino bought Umax scanners with custom firmware and cases, in effect). While both my Lino Opal Ultra and Powerlook III both give me good images, even from 6x7 negs, I'm looking at a Microtek Artixscan M1, as unless I wet mount, there's still the issue of Newton's rings to contend with.


erie
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Erie,

I'm not sure you really want the M1. It's been hyped but I think the consensus is in favor of the Epson 750 Pro. There is much more solid experience with this scanner.

BTW, I have enjoyed the Saphir II as well. But 600 dpi optical seems low, but not really. One can easily print the 4x5 to 16x20.

The Epson will do this better.

Asher
 

Erie Patsellis

pro member
Interesting, though not only the info on the M1, but my Powerlook II is a 1200 dpi optical, and the Opal Ultra is (going from memory) 700/1400 (dual lens design), both have amazing Dmax, especially considering neither has been made in nearly half a decade, if not longer. (though one would expect such performance from a $8500 scanner, as the list price on the opal ultra when it was introduced, 11 years ago.)


Perhaps the gadgeteer/tinker in me will find a solution, possibly hack one of the spare Powerlook III scanners I have, removing the glass and making a dedicated flim holder/diffusor, and some heavy duty flocking as well, the interior of these things pretty well suck, reflectivity wise.


erie

btw, Klaus, being a first generation American of Hellenic descent, I've seen many bottles of Metaxa, brings back interesting memories of my childhood.
 
Dear Klaus,

Yes, I am saying that: a SB 54 H used in 16-shot mode with the respective digital HR (high-res) lenses do surpass a 8x18 transparency in terms of modulation and tonal values. I have seen it with my eyes, otherwise I would not claim this.

Museums, galleries, libraries, etc ... around the world have switched to multishot digital years back. Be sure that they have made their quality tests very intensively before making this switch. I don't know what means the word "etats" but suppose you refer to finances? Yes and no: to invest for those institutions it is not that easy. Each investment must be of proven value and takes months of tests and comparisons between existing and new systems: I have been involved in many of those testing processes.

Just to mention one of them: the "Forbidden City Museum" of Beijing did invest in 4 Sinarback 54 H systems (on Sinar p3 with digital HR lenses) a few years ago, when the SB 54 H came out. Previously they were using film (obviously), 8x10" for reproduction of hundred of years old huge paintings. When I say huge I mean with a few meters width. They have now completely switched to digital. The result being that they show now these paintings on Mac Cinema displays in a public gallery, under glass: the public has access to all these reproductions on about 8 Cinema Displays and can zoom in details of those paintings at 1600%!, and admire the very smallest details. I was told by the museum curator and all the employes that they could never have done this with analog.

But I am not here to convince anybody. I know that my view may seem to be biased. I don't think it has something to do with the "kind of photography" you are taking, but obviously with IQ first for many, then costs and workflow advantages. For some the factor "costs" is of first importance, of course, and it makes no sense to invest Euro 30'000.- (sorry, but I stick to this figure for the ultimate high-end system, even MUCH less with the current Sinarback 54 H multi-shot 16 mode) if you are shooting a couple of images every month. I did not mean to enter the debate "what you need and what you can afford", that's something different, possibly not less important for some or many, but different.

How long takes a multi-shot: well, if we speak about this, then we have to include as well the chemical processing. A 16-shot multi-shot exactly takes 16 times the time your power packs need to recycle, typically about 30 seconds maximum, when you are using flash light, and 16 times your exposure time + about 16 x 1 sec. for the digital back to be ready between each shot.

Multi-shot is obviously limited to static subjects.

Best regards,
Thierry

Hi Thierry!

First let me say that i maybe generalised a bit.

"there is a reason why museums worldwide are using digital technology nowadays to reproduce their collection digitally, and it is not a cost factor, but a IQ one."

that´s an interesting point!
Museums make digital reproductions. That´s - sorry - not the kind of photography i am talking of . . . ;-)
besides: museums usually have big etats for technical stuff.

And: i definitely doubt that a 22mpx multishot gives me the quality of an 8x10" drumscanned 50ASA film.
Besides of that: you can shoot an 8x10" let´s say in 1/60sec. How long takes a multishot?
And: are you really saying a 22mpx digital multishot could top a 4000dpi 1,2gpx scan of an 8x10" one-shot-tranny?

And EVEN IF it were so: an 8x10" with a very good lens costs about 2000.-€ on ebay . . .

I mean: it´s always a question what you REALLY need! And what you REALLY can afford!
 
If I may speak "for" Rainer: I am in touch with him almost daily, on the phone. You would be surprised to hear what his thoughts about film are. He does not speak about it at all. He is using digital since almost day one. Some of his prints have a few meters width.

In fact Rainer went into digital long before photography even started to speak and be aware about digital, in his previous field of work: music composition. He can tell a lot about it.

May be he will jump in.

Thierry

Hopefully Rainer finds some time to chime in at some stage, would be interesting to hear his thoughts on film and the future of film as well.
 
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