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  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Is there a problem ?

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Why are new posts so slow in coming to this category?

Are we all too good, too embarrassed or do we think that others cannot help us learn and improve? Or could it be that no one cares?

In my view, this should be a very active category within OPF. Everyone can benefit from comments given here.

What do you all think?

Regards.
 
Riskit is one of several categories that I have never understood.

I am so retarded that I understand little of what goes on here. I lurk in the hope that some hidden, perhaps osmotic, process will yield some insight. Five years hasn't been very fruitful.
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Riskit is one of several categories that I have never understood.

I am so retarded that I understand little of what goes on here. I lurk in the hope that some hidden, perhaps osmotic, process will yield some insight. Five years hasn't been very fruitful.
Winston, thank you for your thoughts on this category. If others feel the same way too, then corrective
action is called for.

Asher, maybe you could look into this?

Regards.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Why are new posts so slow in coming to this category?

Are we all too good, too embarrassed or do we think that others cannot help us learn and improve? Or could it be that no one cares?

In my view, this should be a very active category within OPF. Everyone can benefit from comments given here.

What do you all think?

Regards.
Hi Fahim and Winston,

Riskit! Is an incubator for one person to put a collection of pictures in which they are trying to define theme, motif, ideas, style and so on. This means that no one else posts their pictures and the focus is to allow the person, who might be a brilliant portraitist, to tackle, for example, photographs of mountains where they have no refined skills or where they want to improve their way of presenting things.

So for you, Fahim, for example, instead of starting many threads on related ideas about people in other countries and water, might aggregate them and try to figure out what is the approach to going from unrelated snaps or great pictures to a meaningful and valuable collection.

That's the intent.

When scores of threads are produced, each with an interesting picture, one misses on the vision of the photographer as it is hidden. Cem's threads on Portals started all over the place and then gelled into a strong growing collection.

The idea is to bring out the best in our pictures, to go from unrelated snaps to worthy collections where we each have our individual voice that anyone would recognize. "Riskit!" is meant for that.

Asher
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Asher, appreciate the response.

But I am lost.

What images ( and how many ) would I be expected to post in this category? What should I expect from the members in response ( if any!! ).

I know it is a 101. My intelligence is 'F ' where retarded would score an' A+'.

Best.
 
Hi Fahim and Winston,

Riskit! Is an incubator for one person to put a collection of pictures in which they are trying to define theme, motif, ideas, style and so on. This means that no one else posts their pictures and the focus is to allow the person, who might be a brilliant portraitist, to tackle, for example, photographs of mountains where they have no refined skills or where they want to improve their way of presenting things.

So for you, Fahim, for example, instead of starting many threads on related ideas about people in other countries and water, might aggregate them and try to figure out what is the approach to going from unrelated snaps or great pictures to a meaningful and valuable collection.

That's the intent.

When scores of threads are produced, each with an interesting picture, one misses on the vision of the photographer as it is hidden. Cem's threads on Portals started all over the place and then gelled into a strong growing collection.

The idea is to bring out the best in our pictures, to go from unrelated snaps to worthy collections where we each have our individual voice that anyone would recognize. "Riskit!" is meant for that.

Asher
Asher,

Doesn't this belong in a sticky?
How would any member of the ignorati possibly surmise this?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Asher, appreciate the response.

But I am lost.

What images ( and how many ) would I be expected to post in this category? What should I expect from the members in response ( if any!! ).

I know it is a 101. My intelligence is 'F ' where retarded would score an' A+'.

Best.
Fahim,

Start with a picture, for example a woman washing the laundry in the street. Make that the archetype of your collection and see what others fit that. Then show us the first 4 and we can discuss them together and you will gradually add more. Then you'll sort those pictures and remove some, keeping the best until you have say 6-12 outstanding images for that series.

It's a matter of going beyond entertainment to having pictures that might be worthy of someone buying or keeping some day. That's a tall order. However, some of us do have talent. To go from snap to photograph requires some thinking and discipline. One can, of course just take snaps and have a good time. That works.

We'd like to bring out the best to harness our talent. Amongst our many pictures there are ideas and style that wonders a lot in a background of mediocrity. Still, there's often with each of us here, some unique material from which one can build. Without getting some discipline, no one rises above mere entertainment and there's little that's lasting and that stands out. A path one can follow is to help each other organize our work and thoughts and encourage intent and design driven photography. That's what the "Riskit!" section is about. We risk making fools out of ourselves by putting together images we think might work together. Then the feedback hopefully will stimulate to figure out what we really are about and how to deliver what we want. This is a risky experiment for everyone involved as we're tested as to our competence in showing and sharing pictures and feedback. If we succeed with a a few photographers, then that will be really impressive and satisfying.

You, for example, Fahim, take a lot of pictures. Think about this. In return for someone sorting their own pictures by theme, they'd have us focus our attention on a group of related images. We'd make suggestions, give feedback. That way the next pictures made would be stronger.

Does that mean anything to you?

Asher
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Fahim,

Start with a picture, for example a woman washing the laundry in the street. Make that the archetype of your collection and see what others fit that. Then show us the first 4 and we can discuss them together and you will gradually add more. Then you'll sort those pictures and remove some, keeping the best until you have say 6-12 outstanding images for that series.

.....

Does that mean anything to you?

Asher
Of course it does. Means a lot.

Make it a sticky as suggested by Winston.

Thank you.
 

Gregg Simpson

New member
I think we are all guilty of looking at our own photographs through "rose tinted spectacles" thinking they are better than what they are, when really we should let our peers be the judge of that. Constructive criticism is essential if we are to improve our craft.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Gregg,

Thanks for your support of our theme/motif/project incubator, "Riskit!".

I think we are all guilty of looking at our own photographs through "rose tinted spectacles" thinking they are better than what they are, when really we should let our peers be the judge of that. Constructive criticism is essential if we are to improve our craft.
Gregg,

We need to love our own work but as you point out, a way of receiving usable feedback. We can provide, I believe, a framework for photography to be criticized where the artist has laid out their needs and goals for a long term project. Here, in "Riskit!", responses are not just to one picture, but rather to each added image in reference to the others and the overall intent and arc the creator has in mind.

The reality is that most of us are not full time artists with a Master of Fine Arts or Film School behind us or galleries and museums waiting with open arms before us. Here, however, our goals are far more modest. We just want to move, at least at first, beyond unrelated "snaps", (wonderful as they might be), to refining one's photography goals around something fun and worthwhile to each of us, that we can call our own.

But how do we boil down our interests to just a few topics? Just photograph what you like and then select you favorites. What do they say to you about your interests? Where would you like to take this propensity if you could? Visiting art galleries while re-reviewing one's own work may help focus one's interests. It may be as broad as "urban landscape" or "street photography" as narrow as "boudoir photography" or "Macro Photography of Spiders". One can still shoot all over the place, but somehow, of all the things in our reach, making choices of what is of less interest is the hallmark of successful photography.

Educating oneself about the field in which one wants to compete and then actually working at it, each week making new pictures, around a theme is more likely than not to lead to a connected set of works and your project paying off in satisfaction, if not sales or a job.

So how does one refine one's work? My way is to make an 8x10 print and get photocopies in B&W and proceed to mark up the picture with a red crayon those items that might be wonderful or need improvement. Others will have different ways, but one must find some way of not only creating, but being critical. Then go back and take more pictures. Weed out pictures that are weak and look for images which are archetypical of your ideas for this project. Try to end up with just 12-15 pictures in this elite set. Gradually, the quality will improve.

The idea is that in "Riskit!" you will be announcing this project. One can post several pictures together with one's end goal and then hopefully the responses will be helpful. However, our help can only go so far. There are many caveats. Criticism here might be well-intentioned but hardly relevant to your work. So one needs to protect one's values and be able to glean the few wonderful grains amongst misjudgments of something you have dreamed about and delivered to the world.

This feedback will never replace the apprenticeship where needed to be a successful and ethical. For example, with weddings, a naive, (even super-skilled amateur), photographer, can so easily fail where a pro would succeed. It's not mere lack of job-specific photography skills, but simply because of no experience with planning, expectations, business, personalities and unforeseen events. That part of photography really needs hands on work with a pro as an assistant. "Riskit!" cannot replace this required apprenticeship in any vertical market of photography.

With these caveats in mind, whether you want to build a coherent portfolio or follow through with a fun idea, "Riskit!" is a safe incubator to show a body of work in progress and get hints as to how, what you imagine is in your photograph, evokes reactions in a small, (albeit skewed), audience for your work.

I believe we do have, collectively the skills and sensibilities to provide helpful opinions to each other. It just takes the guts to, "Riskit!".

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I think we are all guilty of looking at our own photographs through "rose tinted spectacles" thinking they are better than what they are, when really we should let our peers be the judge of that. Constructive criticism is essential if we are to improve our craft.
Yes, but it is very difficult to obtain.

On the internet, most forums deal about technique and cameras, so the "critique" if you can call it that way is related to the price and brand of your equipment. Other people "critique" on the subject (I new a guy who found every picture nice, as long as it was of a sports car, for example, but the best subject is, of course, scantily clad women). And, frankly, "critique" is rarely welcome on these forums, so I stopped giving any other comment than praise.

Then, of course, "critique" is often understood as "find something which is technically wrong", because it is the question most often asked by beginners. It is useful, up to a point.

One may believe that paying would solve the problem. That has not been my experience. My experience with courses given has rather been that the head of the course has strong ideas on what kind of photographs he wants to see (it has always been men). If I wanted to caricature, it is a bit as if one would register for a course on street photography and the pictures would be judged by "could it have been shot on a Leica?" and only BW, please.
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Hi Gregg,

I think we are all guilty of looking at our own photographs through "rose tinted spectacles" thinking they are better than what they are, when really we should let our peers be the judge of that. Constructive criticism is essential if we are to improve our craft.
Did you read the thread on dealing with criticism? Also, there is a C&C 101 thread. If not, please do so. This is an important topic and it is inevitable that we end up discussing it periodically. However, it would be a pity if the previous exchanges (which are very valuable) would go unnoticed.
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Yes, but it is very difficult to obtain.

On the internet, most forums deal about technique and cameras, so the "critique" if you can call it that way is related to the price and brand of your equipment. Other people "critique" on the subject (I new a guy who found every picture nice, as long as it was of a sports car, for example, but the best subject is, of course, scantily clad women). And, frankly, "critique" is rarely welcome on these forums, so I stopped giving any other comment than praise.

Then, of course, "critique" is often understood as "find something which is technically wrong", because it is the question most often asked by beginners. It is useful, up to a point.

One may believe that paying would solve the problem. That has not been my experience. My experience with courses given has rather been that the head of the course has strong ideas on what kind of photographs he wants to see (it has always been men). If I wanted to caricature, it is a bit as if one would register for a course on street photography and the pictures would be judged by "could it have been shot on a Leica?" and only BW, please.
Spot on Jerome! Fully agreed. :)
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
But of course, we all know that street photography can only be shot with a Leica ( M not S please ) and should always be in BW.

Else it is neither street nor photography.

Day follows night follows day. Street, Photography, BW, Leica M, Street, Photography, BW, Leica M, Street..

p.s if I were teaching street photography, I would insist additionally that it be on Tri-X film and shot with a 50mm lens and wet printed.

I don't teach anymore. I enjoy photography.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I suppose that this is sarcasm, so I will respond in jest:

Street photography now!

Jerome,

jokes aside, did you actually read and enjoy this book? It's pretty expensive. I am always happy to read other's picks if they really, really enjoyed what they link to! What works and why are interesting topics. Does this book just showcase or also critique the pictures too?

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Jerome,

jokes aside, did you actually read and enjoy this book? It's pretty expensive. I am always happy to read other's picks if they really, really enjoyed what they link to! What works and why are interesting topics. Does this book just showcase or also critique the pictures too?

Asher
I've hold it in my hands, but was not able to buy it. It is out of print at present. What I saw was refreshingly different as to the evolution of the concept of "street photography", whatever that means (and we should not forget that the law has evolved in such directions as to render the works of Doisneau or Cartier-Bression impossible today).

The book should be re-issued as paperback for a relatively low price soon. I intend to buy it.
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Street Photography:

It could mean photographing what is happening on/along/within a street as one walks/drives/runs along..

Or as in this instance as one crosses a street..the people thing; their daily normal doings:


I do it with a smile, specially for beautiful people. Ya man, bring it on!!

Any closer one would not call it street.
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Let's see, once again, some streett ( my definition ) photography from Europe..

For fun let's constrain ourselves to Germany this time..

You can approach this gentleman, you can do street anywhere..real ferocious, but a lovely person..


Its how you approach a person. Your vibes.

Or in Munich..some might recognize this place...


Or in true street style in Nuremburg...


But as I said..it has to be with a Leica!! What else in Germany.
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Street Photography does not mean one has to walk the streets..

Let the action come to you.

Praha, in this instance. I am sitting having coffee. Europe and What do I see. From across the pond, some visitors..

My lucky day; lovely odds..1 to 4. Great. Notice the time on that clock..

Yes sir..my lucky day. Raise my Leica ( what else ) , what are the odds someone shall be curious? Right. A charming man, sitting alone!!

I click, hasten to drink the coffee. Got to make contact..


Four ladies to entertain. But you need to have what it takes. That is the secret. Of the street.
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
A final one from the streets of Europe..Venice.


The most important pre-requiste for my kind of street photography is respect and courtesy.

Enjoy your street photography. It gives you a chance to meet people. Make friends. Maybe meet a future wife/husband. It is fun.

p.s But it must be done with a Leica M. Don't believe me. Look at the guy on your right.
 

Gregg Simpson

New member
A very interesting debate, what I conclude from this, going back to the original question "is there a problem" yes, maybe this section should be a "challenge" to produce a series of images on a particular but unspecified theme, 3 to 5 images say!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
A very interesting debate, what I conclude from this, going back to the original question "is there a problem" yes, maybe this section should be a "challenge" to produce a series of images on a particular but unspecified theme, 3 to 5 images say!
That, Greg is Themes!, unless you mean something entirely different.

Explain, "particular but don't really get it!

Asher
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
From a casual sampling of the last OPF forum, it seems that there is another problem: very few people take the time to comment (which is a lot less than writing a complete critique, we rarely have those). It seems that Asher takes the time to write about most posted images, but he is the main contributor.
Absolutely! In the past we have also discussed the possibility of readers shying from commenting due the fact that Asher and some others provide very eloquent and detailed answers. This raises the bar for the rest of us. Most comments are provided in the threads such as themes where this threshold is lower.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Absolutely! In the past we have also discussed the possibility of readers shying from commenting due the fact that Asher and some others provide very eloquent and detailed answers. This raises the bar for the rest of us. Most comments are provided in the threads such as themes where this threshold is lower.
I don't think that the reason is because Asher shies people away. There simply are very few people willing to comment.
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
I don't think that the reason is because Asher shies people away. There simply are very few people willing to comment.
This is not a theory I was talking about but a fact. Quite a few members have told me by PM in the past that this was a deterrent to them. They did not feel that they could just write 'nice picture' when Asher has posted a page-long analysis already.
 
Why are new posts so slow in coming to this category?

Are we all too good, too embarrassed or do we think that others cannot help us learn and improve? Or could it be that no one cares?

In my view, this should be a very active category within OPF. Everyone can benefit from comments given here.

What do you all think?

Regards.
The main reason I stop is because only the same two members ever posted replies in my threads.
It kind of makes me feel not welcome here, Sorry to say.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
First, let me say that this thread is wobbling between two subjects. I'll repeat that "Riskit!" is for personal new or ongoing projects that are experimental and not a free invitation for others to post their own works. So it's harder to post comments here as the answers are most important!

The general hesitation of folk to comment on pictures in the rest of OPF is partly due to our drive to eventually get beyond the "Nice picture" comments, at least some of the time. It's not necessary to wax poetic and, yes, simple "I like it!" is wonderful and welcome! No feedback and no voice at all is not. But to break the silence, just reach out!

The main reason I stop is because only the same two members ever posted replies in my threads.
Cody,

I'll address my answer to everyone who makes few comments to other peoples pictures.


Guys,

Look through the current Recent Posts. How many have you given a comment to? When one gives a comment, magic happens; automatically that person is going to look out for your pictures to comment on. I watch folk who just stand by their own post, waiting for responses but do not comment on other folks pictures in that waiting time! It takes action to get reaction.

Look at this picture, for example. Why no visits from you guys?

Asher
 
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