My World: Kuala Lumpur.

[fahim mohammed]

From my room..

And one at breakfast...

Don't believe those who say getting clean sheets in ' third world ' countries is a problem!! That is based on ignorance and prejudice.

 

[fahim mohammed]

Malaysia is a large and culturally diverse country..known for its hospitality and friendliness.
With forests and coastlines to rival the best in the world.

Excellent medical facilities and infrastructure, safe, clean and rapidly developing.
With accommodation to rival the best to be found anywhere in the world.
And all this at a relatively lower cost, than say the small island to the south.
An excellent place to visit and retire to.

So much so that hundreds of thousands of aliens have made it their second and/or permanent home.
I would presume most of them enjoy the climate, the cultural diversity, the excellent facilities on offer,
the astonishing natural beauty and the reasonable cost of living.

The shopping malls. They have it all. The most luxurious to the most bargain oriented.
I went to the Leica store there. Things on waiting lists in the ' first world ' countries were available for purchase off the shelf. And the place had more than a few customers.

But I was interested in something else. A historical exhibition..tucked away in a corner of a crowded mall. Seemed lonely.. Locals and aliens were more interested in the Cartier, Gucci, Lanvin etc.

I went in the small exhibition. I came out having learnt much more about watches.

Of course, also exhibited were the most expensive brand name products!

p.s. I once saw an image of an entrance to a mosque in Malaysia posted on OPF. it had a sign saying ' closed for visitors'. I was surprised. I did take up that matter with the Malaysian Embassy here. Showed them the photograph. It was obvious that it was closed because there were prayers being held inside.
The image showed something like what is placed in front of cinemas, restaurants etc. with a velvet rope between two movable brass stands.

All mosques in Malaysia are open for all to visit if properly attired and respecting the sanctity of the place. Prayer time is not a time for visitors to click their cameras.

 

[Jerome Marot]

p.s. I once saw an image of an entrance to a mosque in Malaysia posted on OPF. it had a sign saying ' closed for visitors'. I was surprised. I did take up that matter with the Malaysian Embassy here. Showed them the photograph. It was obvious that it was closed because there were prayers being held inside.
The image showed something like what is placed in front of cinemas, restaurants etc. with a velvet rope between two movable brass stands.

All mosques in Malaysia are open for all to visit if properly attired and respecting the sanctity of the place. Prayer time is not a time for visitors to click their cameras.

I suppose that you are referring to that picture of mine:

Closed​

If it is prayer time, why aren't there any shoes on the racks?

 

[fahim mohammed]

I suppose that you are referring to that picture of mine:

......

If it is prayer time, why aren't there any shoes on the racks?

Simply because no tourists were allowed to enter at that time from this entrance. And as you must know we remove our shoes when we enter the mosques. Even tourists have to remove their shoes!!,
however much some of them might find it inconvenient. And this must have been a entrance reserved for non- Muslim tourists and prayers were being offered.

And in most mosques, there are places for non-Muslim tourists ( except two Mosques where entry is totally forbidden, as I mentioned previously ) and designated entry points which are often closed during prayer times.

If tourists were allowed from any entrance they might be passing through the prayer areas where the devoted are in supplication or prayers. And also Muslims perform abolution before entry to the mosque. And certain entry areas are prohibited for non-Muslim tourists.

But this is a far cry from the statement you made at that time ( I don't remember the image or your exact statement ). Such unverified statements distort the truth..as happens in most cases related to Islam and Moslems.

Do you see the bars and the velvetish rope? I think it is movable. So do the Malaysian authorities.

 

[Jerome Marot]

I am happy to stand corrected but the statement I did at that time was simply that, in the course of my travels, I frequently noticed mosques with a sign stating that they were not open to non muslims. You challenged me and this is a picture I had to illustrate the facts. The original thread is here and I don't see much point in repeating that discussion. As I wrote at the time, "I am perfectly content to have learned that at least some muslim believers do not consider it proper practice to prohibit the entrance of their places of worship to non muslims."

 

[fahim mohammed]

And I also remember writing words to the effect that some countries, as a local practice based on their experience of tourists, might close entrance to mosques since mosques are a place of worship and not an exhibition hall for camera carrying tourists clicking images of worshipers. The worshipers might find it offensive. I would too!! And I would make sure the tourist never did it again.

No tourists, no shoes at the tourist entrance. Simple as that.

 

[Andy brown]

Fahim,

I love K.L and Malaysia.
My wife grew up there and we visit regularly.

It's a mad place and great fun.
The food is just awesome, extremely good.
Street food in K.l is better than fine dining in most Western countries.

Sorry to have to admit it but the coast/beaches are not a patch on the best in the world ( I'm spoilt my home patches are pristine parts of Australia and remote parts of the Pacific.

Hope you have agreat time there.

Have some satay for me please.

 

[fahim mohammed]

Hey Andy.

So glad you stopped by. Agree with all you said.
Try the beaches on the Eastern Coastline!

Food..wonderful.

Lovely place isn't it?

Best regards.

 

[Jerome Marot]

And I also remember writing words to the effect that some countries, as a local practice based on their experience of tourists, might close entrance to mosques since mosques are a place of worship and not an exhibition hall for camera carrying tourists clicking images of worshipers. The worshipers might find it offensive. I would too!! And I would make sure the tourist never did it again.

No tourists, no shoes at the tourist entrance. Simple as that.

I offered to leave the story as it was, and now you are passing me as an imbecile.

 

[fahim mohammed]

I offered to leave the story as it was, and now you are passing me as an imbecile.

I am sorry, if you read it that way. That was not the intention at all.
I agree, let's leave that story.

Regards.

 

[Martin Stephens]

The first two are very enjoyable reflection pictures. Interesting to 'window shop.'

 

[Asher Kelman]

Don't believe those who say getting clean sheets in ' third world ' countries is a problem!! That is based on ignorance and prejudice.

but then, this is not a third world scene! Did you mean "clean sheets" or "clean streets"? This picture shows neither. Anyway, I've never heard any of these ideas before.


Anyway, whether in Florence, Italy or Ibadan, Nigeria, it's insufficient to look at the wonderful architecture to understand the state of life there for the local folk. One needs, at the least, (as you have done Sherpas in Nepal and amongst the Berbers of North Africa), to invest time in meeting people, listening to stories, observing and asking the right questions. Otherwise, our impressions could be superficial and we're really looking at urban planning and cultural investments.

Without more of a photographic essay reach to the people, this wonderful picture, is a beautiful chance reflection of what we can see as we pass by.

Asher

 

[fahim mohammed]

but then, this is not a third world scene! Did you mean "clean sheets" or "clean streets"? This picture shows neither. Anyway, I've never heard any of these ideas before.


Anyway, whether in Florence, Italy or Ibadan, Nigeria, it's insufficient to look at the wonderful architecture to understand the state of life there for the local folk. One needs, at the least, (as you have done Sherpas in Nepal and amongst the Berbers of North Africa), to invest time in meeting people, listening to stories, observing and asking the right questions. Otherwise, our impressions could be superficial and we're really looking at urban planning and cultural investments.

Without more of a photographic essay reach to the people, this wonderful picture, is a beautiful chance reflection of what we can see as we pass by.

Asher

Never heard these before Asher. Re-read some posts.

' ..our impressions could be superficial..'. And, might I add, tainted with individual bias; positive or negative.

Regards.

 

[Asher Kelman]

I suppose that you are referring to that picture of mine:

Closed​

If it is prayer time, why aren't there any shoes on the racks?

Jerome,

For those who are not students of culture, let me add this introduction. It's a fair generalization, at least in the Abrahamic religions, that those in any particular system of faith, consider they're on the right path to heaven, while others, although are valued as human beings, made by God, still are not equal before heaven. So for each religion, nonbelievers are less sanctified and holy in some measure. Furthermore, a lot of history is related to wars of religious conquest, exploitation and xenophobia so each culture has its sore memories of persecution and interference.

The huge sign in your picture does, on the surface, appear to reflect a nasty attitude to non-Muslims! However, that's not quite right. Of course it is a bit of an insult, but it's not meant quite as such. Yes, we are considered on a different level. The sign, however, is actually a reflection of a generous compromise made by Muslims in allowing "heathen" non-believers into their houses of worship. It's pretty progressive that they would permit any outsiders, given the animus experienced over the centuries and the current tension between Muslims and the West. Not all religions are that open!

I know that many Jews do not like non-Jewish visitors and especially with cameras in a house of worship and especially during prayers. From bitter experience, with caricatures of foreign-looking jewish stereotypes praying in a manner strange to Christians, with prayer shawls, tallit, or strapped on leather phylacteries, teffillin, to be ogled at while the congregation is in devotion, trying to be at one with their creator. This is a private experience, almost like congress of man and wife.

So I can well imagine how Muslims might feel "objectified" when hardly well-informed tourists pass through, as if visiting some circus tent showing the snake with three heads. OTOH, the vast Notre Dame Cathedral has no such defensiveness having tourists pass through. The Church is much more self-confident! The form of prayer? It's "normality" for most of the visitors and the Church would love folk to be moved and converted, as it's always looking to spread the word of salvation. Moreover, the place is sometimes rather empty, even during prayer, so added souls makes it more pleasant! The massivity of that Cathedral, the sheer beauty of the windows and the eminence of the architecture makes even a busload of tourists hardly noticeable.

When I visited the mosques in Turkey, visitors took off their shoes and were allowed inside and permitted to take photographs but not allowed in during prayers. Local folk seem to pack the places and they don't need, at this time, to press us into the congregation to make a quorum, LOL!

Asher

 

[Jerome Marot]

Jerome,

For those who are not students of culture, let me add this introduction. It's a fair generalization, at least in the Abrahamic religions, that those in any particular system of faith, consider they're on the right path to heaven, while others, although are valued as human beings, made by God, still are not equal before heaven. So for each religion, nonbelievers are less sanctified and holy in some measure. Furthermore, a lot of history is related to wars of religious conquest, exploitation and xenophobia so each culture has its sore memories of persecution and interference.

The huge sign in your picture does, on the surface, appear to reflect a nasty attitude to non-Muslims! However, that's not quite right. Of course it is a bit of an insult, but it's not meant quite as such. Yes, we are considered on a different level. The sign, however, is actually a reflection of a generous compromise made by Muslims in allowing "heathen" non-believers into their houses of worship. It's pretty progressive that they would permit any outsiders, given the animus experienced over the centuries and the current tension between Muslims and the West. Not all religions are that open!

I know that many Jews do not like non-Jewish visitors and especially with cameras in a house of worship and especially during prayers. From bitter experience, with caricatures of foreign-looking jewish stereotypes praying in a manner strange to Christians, with prayer shawls, tallit, or strapped on leather phylacteries, teffillin, to be ogled at while the congregation is in devotion, trying to be at one with their creator. This is a private experience, almost like congress of man and wife.

So I can well imagine how Muslims might feel "objectified" when hardly well-informed tourists pass through, as if visiting some circus tent showing the snake with three heads. OTOH, the vast Notre Dame Cathedral has no such defensiveness having tourists pass through. The Church is much more self-confident! The form of prayer? It's "normality" for most of the visitors and the Church would love folk to be moved and converted, as it's always looking to spread the word of salvation. Moreover, the place is sometimes rather empty, even during prayer, so added souls makes it more pleasant! The massivity of that Cathedral, the sheer beauty of the windows and the eminence of the architecture makes even a busload of tourists hardly noticeable.

When I visited the mosques in Turkey, visitors took off their shoes and were allowed inside and permitted to take photographs but not allowed in during prayers. Local folk seem to pack the places and they don't need, at this time, to press us into the congregation to make a quorum, LOL!

Asher

I will repeat it again: the matter has been discussed in that thread already, and I do not want to repeat the discussion. There is however a slight correction I need to add to your observations: in Paris Notre-Dame cathedral (which, I suppose, is the church you are thinking about), there is a sign asking the tourists to refrain from taking pictures and generally to behave as expected in such a place that is put forward during the mass.

 

[Asher Kelman]

I will repeat it again: the matter has been discussed in that thread already, and I do not want to repeat the discussion. There is however a slight correction I need to add to your observations: in Paris Notre-Dame cathedral (which, I suppose, is the church you are thinking about), there is a sign asking the tourists to refrain from taking pictures and generally to behave as expected in such a place that is put forward during the mass.

Jerome,

I put my discussion here just for completeness, not to educate you as that's certainly not needed! Thanks for that important caveat on photography during mass in the Notre Dame Cathedral. I was not aware of such a notice. Maybe I just get too into the beauty of the place!

Asher