• Please use real names.

    Greetings to all who have registered to OPF and those guests taking a look around. Please use real names. Registrations with fictitious names will not be processed. REAL NAMES ONLY will be processed

    Firstname Lastname

    Register

    We are a courteous and supportive community. No need to hide behind an alia. If you have a genuine need for privacy/secrecy then let me know!
  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

My World: Light! (tulip)

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I like the high-key approach to the subject very much, but you could consider flipping the image for a more dynamic composition.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
I like the high-key approach to the subject very much, but you could consider flipping the image for a more dynamic composition.
What a load of bullshit, Jerome. Stand on your head or turn the monitor upside down if you want it that way. That would be more dynamic.

As a flower study, Wolfgang, its got all the ingredients it needs. Form, colour, space, lines and textures. Your approach with the high key feels very relaxing and contemplative. It'd make a greeting greeting card or center piece over my couch.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
What a load of bullshit, Jerome.
Tom,

Of course one can look at it in a mirror to or reflected in the bath water. now that would be BS or fun, depending on the company.

Nope, Jerome just offered another way of viewing it, that's all. The convention in the Western world, even for Kiwis and Kangaroos, is that "timelines" progress, left to right! So in the original image, the flower is being returned back to us and the version Jerome suggests would be the flower being, as it were offered to us.

Jerome is right in implying that images give different meanings according to presentation and for a flower, it's likely more appealing sometimes presented forward, as he indicated. Of course, the original works well as it is. We all agree that the choice is with the photographer. I immediately liked the tulip but wondered why it was like that, but accepted that it was Jarmo's preference. Now in "right to left" reading cultures, perhaps the sense would be opposite.

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
What a load of bullshit, Jerome. Stand on your head or turn the monitor upside down if you want it that way. That would be more dynamic.

As a flower study, Wolfgang, its got all the ingredients it needs. Form, colour, space, lines and textures. Your approach with the high key feels very relaxing and contemplative. It'd make a greeting greeting card or center piece over my couch.
It is very nice as it is indeed.

May I ask what is wrong with my remark, Tom? I don't make such remarks without having first tried the effect myself, so I copied the image to my computer, flipped it left to right and found the result interesting. Not necessarily better, that is a question of taste. I thought that, for that particular image, Wolfgang might also be interested in the result. He is free to ignore the suggestion.

May I ask how you consider that a public forum such as this one should work? People just post pictures and nobody makes any comment? Or can you specify what, in your opinion, is a valid comment and what is not?
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Anything is valid as a comment, Jerome. Being valid as a comment doesn't make it less or more bullshit. The validity of the content of the comment comes from good solid grounding in workable principals, not from how you feel about it being flipped or how Asher might suggest about coming or going (which is the biggest heap of unscientific bullshit I have ever heard from him).
We talk a lot of bullshit here from time to time nd I'm certainly willing to contribute some good Old Aussie stuff. After all, we thrive on it. But when it comes to a decent contribution to a critique of a photo I guess I get tested just once too often.
If flipping a photo is all you can suggest, it's probably best if you don't say anything at all. That falls under the same jurisdiction as: it could be a bit sharper, cropping it on the left might help, try it in black and white, or the best of them all: I would have stood a little more to the left.
Wolfgang is a very accomplished photographer from what I can tell. He takes a lot of care in presenting stuff here. We can assume that what he places here is what he meant to do. From there we can reflect on the experience it gives us and how it might relate to other photos Wolfgang has posted or what his intentions might be for this one. Changing his photo to suit ourselves is not our job. Learning to accept what is presented and working from there is what a critic does. Who gives a toss whether you like it or not. That is irrelevant and quite distracting to the artist.
There is nothing wrong with telling someone you like it, by the way. I have my own ways of saying that, as you might notice. But can we just leave people's photos alone and take them for what they are unless they are ignorant imbeciles and still haven't figured out which end of a camera is which.

Now my blood pressure is up and I'll need to have a long walk to calm down. Any sympathy from the crowd?

I read this one from another Aussie only today.

"If I were to give up sarcasm, that would leave interpretive dancing as my only means of communication."
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
I just realized something.
I get as fired up about this stuff as John or Fahim get about religion.
Should I be praying to my camera or reading signs in the sands of a beach landscape or finding messages under juniper bushes photographed against a hurricane fire in Outback Australia?
At least I can take a pill for my passion. Or a walk.
Oh, and I never go away, regardless of how you will disagree with me - and I know you will.

I duel with blunt swords, Jerome.
 

Chris Calohan

Active member
Wow, a morning of humor and passion and vision. It's a great photographic day!

Only it's raining and hailing and winding and miserabling (my word) here so it is an inside day of gloom and doom...sighhhhhhhhhhh

But hey, you guys keep sparring so I can at least glean something for having to be awake. I agree with everything said so far, on all three sides so I'm no help, Tom. Sorry.

I even gave thought to editing a work by all three of you to see which I could put into apolexy first, but realized the creulty of such an act.

Oh God, I need to go back to bed.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Wow, a morning of humor and passion and vision. It's a great photographic day!

Only it's raining and hailing and winding and miserabling (my word) here so it is an inside day of gloom and doom...sighhhhhhhhhhh

But hey, you guys keep sparring so I can at least glean something for having to be awake. I agree with everything said so far, on all three sides so I'm no help, Tom. Sorry.

I even gave thought to editing a work by all three of you to see which I could put into apolexy first, but realized the creulty of such an act.

Oh God, I need to go back to bed.
That's apoplexy, Chris and I have already had one too many occlusion for this life. Give me another one and I may have to haunt you.
Ho can you agree with every one. Taking sides is part of the fun.
Do what I do when bored. Go annoy someone.
I had a great conversation with a shop assistant yesterday. She tried to sell me some towels for the bathroom.

Sir, what colour would you like?
Does it matter? Which colour dries the best?
Well, the blue ones are better quality. You don't have to wash them as often.
That's only if I wash myself properly. I only use one side of the towel anyway.
We have two sizes.
I only have one body.
The big ones are a bit wider.
What are you telling me?
Do you need a face towel as well?
I don't wash my face.
And a bath mat?
What's that for?
To stand on when you get out of the bath.
I have a floor for that.
It stops the floor from getting wet.
It's the bathroom. It's supposed to get wet.
How many towels would you like, sir?
Just one.
Two would be better. One for the lady of the house.
She has her own bathroom. I'm not allowed in it.
I can understand why, sir.
In that case, give me the black ones. They don't show the dirt.
A wise choice, sir.

Shopping is such fun.
 

Chris Calohan

Active member
Apoplexically corrected, I do find the lighter blue towels to dry better than the darker towels, but give me one of those big fluffy jobs you get at the Hilton any day...Now that's a towel.

As to the haunting, you'll have to fight a line of former students who are doing out of body experiences to visit me. I suspect more than a few will pee on my grave...which is fine as it wil make the grass grow better. I'ts nice to win. ;>}
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Anything is valid as a comment, Jerome. Being valid as a comment doesn't make it less or more bullshit. The validity of the content of the comment comes from good solid grounding in workable principals, not from how you feel about it being flipped or how Asher might suggest about coming or going (which is the biggest heap of unscientific bullshit I have ever heard from him).
We talk a lot of bullshit here from time to time nd I'm certainly willing to contribute some good Old Aussie stuff. After all, we thrive on it. But when it comes to a decent contribution to a critique of a photo I guess I get tested just once too often.
If flipping a photo is all you can suggest, it's probably best if you don't say anything at all. That falls under the same jurisdiction as: it could be a bit sharper, cropping it on the left might help, try it in black and white, or the best of them all: I would have stood a little more to the left.
Wolfgang is a very accomplished photographer from what I can tell. He takes a lot of care in presenting stuff here. We can assume that what he places here is what he meant to do. From there we can reflect on the experience it gives us and how it might relate to other photos Wolfgang has posted or what his intentions might be for this one. Changing his photo to suit ourselves is not our job. Learning to accept what is presented and working from there is what a critic does. Who gives a toss whether you like it or not. That is irrelevant and quite distracting to the artist.
There is nothing wrong with telling someone you like it, by the way. I have my own ways of saying that, as you might notice. But can we just leave people's photos alone and take them for what they are unless they are ignorant imbeciles and still haven't figured out which end of a camera is which.

Now my blood pressure is up and I'll need to have a long walk to calm down. Any sympathy from the crowd?
There is no need to get angry, I am just simply and honestly asking a question. You are assuming that I am dueling with you as to what a valid comment is. I am not. I would really like an example of what I should have written or what you would have written.

If I think about all these years I have taken photographs, I have never got much more beyond the kind of comment that you dismiss as invalid: crop here or there, try it in B&W, etc... even in courses I paid money for. So if you could give me an example, that would be a real premiere for me.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Her'es the deal, as I see it.

Some folk go ballistic if anyone suggests "improving" their picture. They want feedback but not a haircut! This can be such a firmly held attitude, that anyone even considering edits deserves to be clobbered with a stone age mallet.

Now for images on display in a gallery, one doesn't ask for crops or different tone curves. Anyway the gallery owner, likely as not, wouldn't have a clue what you're talking about. They have speaking points on the charm of the piece and know how to swipe your credit card, that's it.

Here, however, it's assumed that at least some of the pictures are posted for discussion of every aspect of making and presenting such a picture as we're all on journeys and can view the work from angles that the individual photographer might miss. We try our level best to remember who doesn't like mention of possible corrections!

For some, it's acceptable if the matter is approached with deference, "Have you looked at the image in this alternative presentation?" rather than, "Sharpen her eyes, hide the tattoo, tone to sepia and you're done!"

Asher
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
I love Sunday mornings. Christine has woken me from a deep sleep where I was entangled in a rather difficult position with Kylie Minogue and she was trying to figure out how we got there.
"Dinning! It's house work day. Release Kylie immediately and get out of bed. I ned my coffee"

Jerome, I don't get angry. Really. It's all puff and no substance. It's the same as Asher writing in Red and big letters in the hope that someone will notice him. As with Asher, just ignore me. Unless you really think I'm pissed of. Send me chocolate and I calm down immediately.
Asher is quite correct, though. Different people expect and want different things. Some of the early birds in my classes just want a quick rinse and trim. That's usually because they come in looking pretty scruffy and its usually about technique in handling the camera. Once they get past the idea that most of the time you need to focus and frame they move onto the next stage of looking at other people's photos and making a critical analysis. Not too deep at first, just a simple statement about the photo and its contents and how it is presented to the audience. I encourage them to talk to the photographer and ask questions, not about technical issues but what the photographer had in mind at the time. The intent.
You see, what's going on at the other end is establishing some pattern of behaviour in the photographer to think before they shoot. Nothing too deep there to begin with but it's a move away from thinking photography is all about the photograph. There is more to it than that. Lots of why and what questions.
There is always one restriction in the final critique. Judgements are to be left aside. Just for the moment. They have their value elsewhere but need to be considered as a value statement not an assessment.
For this process to come to any sort of sense in any of my students, they would need to complete at least 12 months of slow and rigorous tuition, painfully extracting the right words and over riding the already existing patterns of behaviour firmly implanted in their concrete brains. They also have to put up with my ranting and ravings, sarcasm and swearing.
They get sent to the Naught Corner if they say like it or some such.
I'll definitely continue this conversation after I have done the housework. Christine is calling. Something sweet and alluring like "will you get off your arse and grab that vacuum cleaner before I suck out your breakfast with it". How can I resist?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
as Asher writing in Red and big letters
Tom,

Simply reminding folk of some of the rules of the place! Red Courier size 3 means I've got a shirt on and pants and I've climbed on my soap box. Still, got to be quick about it as I could get whacked by Murphy in his ute ready to knock me honest and humble!

Everyone has their own journey and each of us sees the other from the advantage of another angle. Even established artists can be so in to their intent, that they may not realize that they go it, "arse-backwards".

Asher
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Tom,

Simply reminding folk of some of the rules of the place! Red Courier size 3 means I've got a shirt on and pants and I've climbed on my soap box. Still, got to be quick about it as I could get whacked by Murphy in his ute ready to knock me honest and humble!

Everyone has their own journey and each of us sees the other from the advantage of another angle. Even established artists can be so in to their intent, that they may not realize that they go it, "arse-backwards".

Asher
Rules!
Journey!

Shouldn't you be doing the housework or something?
Am I the only domestic around here?

Christine! No one else is doing the mopping. How come I have to?

Ouch! that hurt.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Rules!
Journey!

Shouldn't you be doing the housework or something?

Tom,

I keep the garden green, rebuild the house, tell stories to grandkids, press flowers, collect leaves, explain the universe. In addition I'm the one to find good restaurants for the muses I photograph. That's a lot for one fellow to do!

The cleaning? Wendy is charge of cleaning ....plus cooking, entertaining, check books and rapping fellows on the knuckles when needed! It all fits in together and life is harmonious!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Yes, I will go away eventually. You will manage to make me leave.
Jerome,

Don't even say that! Tom drinks more from a well of an old eucalyptus tree. He's really not meaning to be unmöglich! Besides, reread his text. He said ........

Oh, and I never go away, regardless of how you will disagree with me - and I know you will.
....and the critical word is disagree, he's certain you and he will have more disagreements, but he'll never himself vanish. He's being Aussie and inflexing a self-depreciating stubborness, born of the history of that continent. But really, like a prickly cactus fruit that with stick it to you, he's really soft as a butter inside.

The chaps from New Zealand I've met are entirely different. That's what happens, (when you grow up speaking to millions of sheep and no wehre to escape to). If they say you're worthless prick, they mean it and are about top smash you in the teeth. In an Aussie pub, he's already ordered a beer for you!

Asher
 
He's being Aussie ... like a prickly cactus fruit.....

The chaps from New Zealand I've met are entirely different. That's what happens, (when you grow up speaking to millions of sheep and no wehre to escape to).
Asher
Thanks be that we live in the land of the language free, Asher. I read in the Guardian newspaper yesterday of two cases where likening someone to another species was judged racially insulting. An English tourist in Wales got fined £150 calling security guards that failed to protect his property "sheep shaggers". In a nearby town, a Welsh maiden called her father's mistress an "English cow". Her fine was £50. Fun or what!
 
Top