Asher,
Thank you for the thoughtful and caring response to my post.
I take one of your central points to be that meaningful feedback on a posted photograph can only occur if the viewer (potential commentator) understands the maker’s intent. This position appropriately) puts the burden on the person asking for feedback to fully and precisely explain what he (she) was trying to accomplish in the picture.
Hi Mike,
We have to start of accepting that, especially in a non censored forum, some comments may be just a friendly acknowledgement that Mike or Asher have posted a photograph they care enough about to share. After all, a lot of us don't wish to add inane remarks but don't want a post to become orphaned. We may actually feel unqualified to approach a particular image. So the friendly encouragement is fine.
Also people need training as to how to give feedback. I wrote a basic outline. I'll look for it.
Perhaps the reason that I find the feedback given in most forums to be of little use (as very clearly described by Cris Kresser) is that the photographer didn’t take the time to explain his objectives.
In a gallery or the major Museums, a curator with give tours and in each room introduce the thinking and activity that propelled a work of art to be created and how life was breathed in it be the artist.
Still, without any introduction, works of Picasso, Rembrandt, Ansel Adams and other great visionaries are impressive and can evoke emotions, feelings, reactions and move you to return. However, the chances are you'll do much better with an an introduction since some works depend on knowledge of other art even poetry or a mythological or religious character. In fact some pictures require an education to start to approach the work.
Now a nude, still life, street scene, family celebration can be critiqued with generally no introduction. That's because we all know enough to get a good thrill and make a bond with that image. We identify the parts played and we are on board in a flash.
Here in OPF, we often ask for a background so that we can get full depth. In one case there is a photograph of a horse that did not have a powerful composition but with the story behind it, the pictures has great value to us. This work r
equires the story and then whenever we look at that picture we feel good and want to talk about it and promise ourselves to revisit.
Sometime a picture works far better than it's composition, subject, patterns and shading and colors would suggest. Then we discover iconic energy of something else is going on. This is an engine of energy that somehow makes the image more important. But what's really going on?
Unbeknowns to us, our mind recognizes a powerful symbol perhaps from our history or some mythology, which further draws on our library of experiences, causing a cascade of increasing energy from a myriad of associations. Then all this structure and strength buttresses the picture before us. So the picture we might merely only
like, now becomes
impressive and somehow resonates with us in a personal way.
However, I do think that much of the problem with the feedback elsewhere is that the commentators are unqualified to give comments. I know this sounds a bit pompous, but being a good photographer is not the same as being a helpful critic... they are different skill sets.
Yes, you are correct. Someone answering may be technically good at wedding photography according to a particular popular style. One can make a perfect photograph that has no life beyond it's end purpose say for the job of the brides album. There is no need for great art, just artistry. While it's laudatory to have technical skills to meet a client's needs, more than that may be there. So even a skilled photographer may only be good at advising on what makes a picture work for a particular end use.
Still, my own belief is that he will likely also have a valuable take on your work and will be honest, if that's the tone we take here. Yes, creatively embedding our own esthetic is the hard part but we
all struggle with this and are equally vulnerable.
That's why one has to get help in filtering the feedback. If you get frustrated then either ask more specifically or else write to me. I am always available for this using PM if something is really perplexing. Maybe there is not a single response!. People might simply not "get it" or the picture is too good to dare to comment on.
As much as I may want to help, I myself may not be feel comfortable with my own reactions. Sometimes we even resort to seeking someone outside for further help. So while we don't expect brilliant answers all the time, there will be
some valuable feedback and also a lot of technical help. Be assured, when you ask a question seriously, in most cases, an honest effort will be made.
Ultimately, if we, ourselves, individually have no goal or pathway, then how can anyone provision us or help us on our way? By what means can we as individuals select the good advice from the nonsense?
This is where we come back full circle to a person like Ben Lifson. His approach as an experienced teacher seems to me to be to clarify for thee photographer that direction that for example you or I might want to go, based on out own body of work and then how it might relate to what's gone on before in art and literature.
So what does someone else do who has no such lantern carrier?
Real "lantern carriers" are hard to find. Most of those who present themselves are simply delusional at best or commercial hucksters. Since I run this forum, I fear crossing the line and want the "contra" position of "The Unguru" since, claiming to be an expert is very dangerous.
Start by opening one's eyes, looking around at what "is". Walk around in town without a camera and interview every brick and shadow on each building, the clouds as they pass by, the drunk in a doorway and the mother with her child. Visit every gallery you can and use the audio to guide you. Buy the books on the artists you like. Only one at a time. Between each book, another 500 or so photographs of your own. Then back to the museums again and drive through parts of the city or countryside you would never imagine doing. This is how you might get your own journey mapped out to some place important to you.
I trust your assurances that this is a different place and will give it a try as you suggest as soon as I can figure out your posting procedure. I’ll do that on a new thread so this one doesn’t get hijacked.
If a thread
is hijacked, we allow that for a while, since the diversion related to the parent topic. Then, when the new topic has traction, we split it up anyway!
Asher