My issues with calibration, gamma, brightness and so on...

[Andrei Zdetovetchi]

Hello people,

The subject of color profiles, monitor calibration and so on, is pretty new to me and recently I got into some problems. I hope I can find a little help here...

My photos are intended to be displayed on the computer screen, like websites and multimedia productions. And I've noticed that my photos looks sometimes more sometimes less different on other computers than mine.

For instance, I have at home an LG M208WA screen. Running on Vista64, with an Nvidia video card. At the studio, I have the same display, also with an Nvidia card but on Windows XP SP3.
On XP there is a color settings tool in the Nvidia control panel, that allows me to tune the WB, brightness, contrast, gamma, based on my visual feedback. On Vista64, I cannot find this tool in the NV control panel, so I have some default settings.
After I tuned the settings on the computer at the studio, the WinXP one, I see a really big difference on the pictures I see there and the same pictures I see at home. At home the pictures are very bright and washed out.
This jumped into my eye, when I took a pictures of a product on a black background. At the studio the background was really black, but at home I could see the fabric of the background and the way it folded. So I don't know which monitor was right! The goal was to shoot the product on black and not to care about selecting and removing the background.

Other case was when I took some interior shots in a building and after I processed the images at home and delivered to the client, he said that the pictures are too warm, the white walls have a yellowish cast. But on my monitor it looks ok! Of course it might be an issue of perception, but I suspect that our monitors display the pictures in a different way, and I don't know how to prevent that...

A while ago, a friend lend me a Spyder 2 Express device, and using it I've managed to make my laptop LCD to look the same as an older CRT I've had. Now I'm thinking of buying a Spyder 3 Elite device to make my screens look the same at home and at my studio. But what about other screens, like my clients and my friends have? That's no guarantee that my photos will look the same on them, like on my display...

So, what should I do?

 

[Ken Tanaka]

My understanding of your question: "How can I ensure that my images have consistent color and tonality on everyone's computer screens?"

Answer: You can't. Work within a moderate color managed environment to ensure fidelity within a "professional" realm, export your images with the sRGB color space (the most common gamut for computer displays) and call it a day.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

...So, what should I do?

Andrei,

Short answers only. Otherwise I can write many pages. I am sure many others will chime in eventually.

1) Calibrate and profile the monitor of the PC you work on to process your pictures. Use a device such as Spyder or i1 for that. Do not "calibrate" by using the adjustments of the grahics card the way you've described it. It will almost always be worse than doing nothing at all. Do not edit on a laptop unless it features a screen capable of being calibrated/profiled properly.
2) Use, when possible, tools such as a color checker card or whibal to be able to adjust the WB in post processing. If possible calibrate your camera using a color checker or have one made for you. Or you can also use the canned profiles of Adobe, DxO or C1.
3) Save your images with an embedded sRGB profile, 8 bits. Save as jpg files with a compression of 7 or higher for better quality.
4) You shall never have any control over the monitors others will use to look at your pictures. So stop worrying about it. There is nothing to be done.

That's basically it. Do these things and hope for the best. You'd be amazed how normal people (i.e. the laymen) are massively insensitive to many aspects of photography such as proper color balance and gamma. ;-)


Cheers,

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

My understanding of your question: "How can I ensure that my images have consistent color and tonality on everyone's computer screens?"

Answer: You can't. Work within a moderate color managed environment to ensure fidelit within a "professional" realm, export your images with the sRGB color space (the most common gamut for computer displays) and call it a day.

Ken must have answered while I was typing my own answer. I fully agree with him, as you can read in my previous post as well.

Cheers,

 

[John Angulat]

Andrei,
There's strength in numbers, as you will undoubtedly see from all the replies.
Ken has summed it up perfectly - "you can't".
Ensuring that every monitor in your workflow is calibrated is the best you can do. You cannot control how other adjust (or neglect to adjust) their monitors.

 

[Andrei Zdetovetchi]

Ok, I wasn't expecting to be able to control how other users are keeping their screens calibrated or not, it's quite obvious that. But I was wondering about how other people, like you, are doing about this. I mean you have your screens calibrated and the pictures look great, but when you give the photos to your clients, they won't see the same image like on your screen. So how do you deal with that? This is actually my question, I can't say to a client that his monitor sucks and the photo looks great on mine.... right?

And the other issue I'm asking for ideas, is about the difference on my screens. I told you, I have the same type LCD monitor (LG M208WA) at home and at the studio, one is on a Vista64 computer and the other is on WinXP. On Vista64 I don't have the same tool in NV Control panel as on the XP, so I can't do the same settings. So until I get my Spyder 3 device, I'm wondering how could I ensure that my photos looks the same on both computers.

I also have some other minor issues related to this topic, but I don't want to dump it all here, I hope to solve the issues one at a time

Thank you all!

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Hi Andrei,

You have been given the answers already, it may be that you do not want to accept them.

Ok, I wasn't expecting to be able to control how other users are keeping their screens calibrated or not, it's quite obvious that. But I was wondering about how other people, like you, are doing about this. I mean you have your screens calibrated and the pictures look great, but when you give the photos to your clients, they won't see the same image like on your screen. So how do you deal with that? This is actually my question, I can't say to a client that his monitor sucks and the photo looks great on mine.... right?

Again, you have to accept this and move on. If you want full control and avoid such a response from a client, give them prints instead.

...And the other issue I'm asking for ideas, is about the difference on my screens. I told you, I have the same type LCD monitor (LG M208WA) at home and at the studio, one is on a Vista64 computer and the other is on WinXP. On Vista64 I don't have the same tool in NV Control panel as on the XP, so I can't do the same settings. So until I get my Spyder 3 device, I'm wondering how could I ensure that my photos looks the same on both computers.

Calibrate and profile all your monitors within your workflow using a device such as the Spyder. Do not do it via NV control panel.

 

[Andrei Zdetovetchi]

Hi Cem,

You have been given the answers already, it may be that you do not want to accept them.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm not so good at explaining things, or myself, in english, since it's not my native language...

Again, you have to accept this and move on. If you want full control and avoid such a response from a client, give them prints instead.

I am accepting this, and I understand that I cannot have full control over others screens. This should be clear now
I was wondering how can I deal with a client that doesn't see what I see, regarding my photos. Ok, your solution is to give them prints instead! But this cannot be applied everytime and since my lack of knowledge and experience about calibrating and profiling, would surely lead me into other issues related to printing...

Calibrate and profile all your monitors within your workflow using a device such as the Spyder. Do not do it via NV control panel.

That's what I am trying to do, but as I have said before, I cannot do it via NV control panel on both systems, so I rule this out! I don't have the Spyder right now, I will acquire it but I don't know when. So until then, I must find a way to calibrate the screens visually or something like that.

 

[John Angulat]

Hi Andrei,
As I had predicted earlier, all the advice would be the same - calibrate your workflow.
In your original post you spoke of "clients" and your being "back in the studio".
This assumes you are deriving some semblence of income from photography, ergo...you are a professional. Spend the relatively small amount of money and purchase a monitor calibrating device. It is inconceivable that a professional would work in any other enviroment than that.

As for your "clients", if they are astute enough to recognize color temperature variations, they are intelligent enough to be asked (politely) "are your monitors calibrated?".

 

[Ken Tanaka]

One of the reasons I recommended (in an earlier thread) renting as much of your photo and lighting kit as possible as you embark on your business venture was that there are so many other factors and forces that will demand your cash and time. It didn't take long for you to encounter your first.

Creating a color-managed workflow (even for screen-only) can get expensive to support at a professional level...and is not rentable in a practical way. (A borrowed Spyder may be temporarily adequate but it's designed as an "advanced amateur" market solution.) Even more costly is dealing with unsophisticated clients.

Experienced commercial photographers avoid getting sucked into the color management black hole by hiring "my digital kids". These are typically assistants who are solely responsible for managing color and tonality fidelity from the camera to the destination. Big busy photogs have such people on their full-time payroll (to the extent that the concept of "full-time" applies to such a business). Smaller jobbers often hire this expertise by either hiring well-referenced independents or by "renting" it through the same shop from which they rent their equipment for a job. (Hence my suggestion in that earlier thread for developing a solid relationship with the best rental outfit in town early.)

Sorry, but you're in the soup now, son. You're going to have to absorb all of the unproductive down-time to swim out on your own. Beyond what has already been offered here, there are no magic bullets. It sounds like you may also be facing a rather non-photographic client relations problem pretty early.

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I was wondering how can I deal with a client that doesn't see what I see, regarding my photos.

Depends on the client, and their intended use of the images. If it's a professional client then they should be sensitive to friendly advice; You should calibrate your display if you want to see accurate colors. If they create a web site, then they'll have no control over how others will perceive the colors. All you can do is deliver them correct colors in sRGB colorspace for the web, or another colorspace for different applications.

That's what I am trying to do, but as I have said before, I cannot do it via NV control panel on both systems, so I rule this out!

Try downloading the latest drivers for your video card. I also run 64-bit Vista, and my card does have the capability (which I don't use because I calibrated my screen) of general gamma and curves adjustments. Try the Control panel, Appearance and Personalization, Personalization, Display settings, Advanced settings button, and finally select the tab for your display card. I am able to take a shortcut by right clicking on the desktop, and use the nVidia configuration screen option, but that appears to be missing from your system.

I don't have the Spyder right now, I will acquire it but I don't know when. So until then, I must find a way to calibrate the screens visually or something like that.

Also not how it should be done, but you can try the controls on your LCD monitor to come somewhat closer to your calibrated screen.

Bart