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New "arTec" Sinar Architecture Camera

T

Thierry Hagenauer

pro member
Sinar announced today a new architecture camera called "arTec".

It was developed together with architecture photographer Rainer Viertlböck who gave his input for the necessary features for his ideal camera.

Some of the features of this new camera:

- Revolving Adapter
- Sliding Back for ground-glass composing
- Lenses 23mm to 135mm (Sinaron Digital)
- 5° Tilt/Swing, in all directions
- Shift V +25/-15mm
- Shift H +20/-20mm
- 360° turnable tripod mount
- 1.5 Kg

Availability shortly after Photokina 2008.

More to follow.

Best regards,
Rainer & Thierry

Sinar-arTec_0071.jpg
 
T

Thierry Hagenauer

pro member
The difference here: for the first time since long, a camera thought by a photographer, till the last detail.

The thinking was to provide a solution covering all needs and having all features: tilt/swing, shifts (H & V), sliding back for precise composition, etc ...

In other words, the first camera having all-in-one.

Thierry

Asher Kelman said:
Now we need the thinking that went into this!

Asher
Click to expand...
 
G

Georg R. Baumann

Inactive
<grins>Thanks Thierry, and what a pleasant surprise, no doubts, Rainer will chime in here.... :)

... <sitting back listening>...

P.S. Michael.... your project is something you might want to throw into this thread....
 
G

Georg R. Baumann

Inactive
Thierry Hagenauer said:
The difference here: for the first time since long, a camera thought by a photographer, till the last detail.

The thinking was to provide a solution covering all needs and having all features: tilt/swing, shifts (H & V), sliding back for precise composition, etc ...

In other words, the first camera having all-in-one.

Thierry
Click to expand...

Thierry... This in deed is .... WOW!
 
K

Ken Tanaka

pro member
Georg Baumann said:
....anyone noticed that?
Click to expand...

1.5 Kg is certainly not p&s territory. But, assuming a correct weight figure was quoted, that's not a negative attribute for a camera aimed specifically at the architectural market. In fact, it might be desirable. The nature of that type of photography often dictates that the camera needs to be extremely steady through long-ish exposures. It's also not a type pf photography that requires a highly mobile camera.

So that's ok with me.
 
M

Michael Fontana

pro member
That's interesting news, Thierry!

The other day, I talked to another architecture-photographer, and to make it short, we both agreed, that there wasn't a good solution for that type of photography - with the MFbacks, even some other archi-shooters started using Arcas.

My guess of back would be Sinarback 54, or does it accepts other backs, as well?
A 48 x 36 mm-sensor, together with the 23 mm would have for the first time a really wide FOV.

The shift looks good to me; as does the sliding ground glass. Is it a easy task to change from the ground glass to the back? Still remembering the same principle Sinar proposed for 6/7- 120-rollies, in the ole days. A renaissance of the black cloths ?? ;-)

Another important question rises with the internal file-handling:
Does it requires a WB-shot - with a opaque plexiglass?

Is there any lens-correction build in the back? I'm not aware of the strengh of the 23 mm...

The weight isn't a problem; I still remember the Sinar-p-aera, the photographer beeing a donkey with all the heavy wides and lots of film-chassis, polas, etc.

On my wishlist would be a integrated "focusing rail" (Macroschlitten), beeing in the lenses axis/tripod axis, to allow horizontal rectilinear stitching - sensor in portrait-orientation - for all lenses. Therefore the cam moving slightly foreward/backwards to move the specific lens in its NoNodalpoint.

Then, the NNP of the lenses rotates in the vertical axis of the tripod mount, meanwhile the focusing rail enables to corect NNP of the different lenses. Shouldn't be a big deal, though, but its alwith nice to have it integrated by default.

Yep, George, that looks very interesting for my project.
I might reconsider ....
 
M

Michael Fontana

pro member
a view from the side:


sinar_artec_comb.jpg



Here are few quotes from Rainer Viertlböck’s discussing his involvement with Sinar on the new arTec camera:

“… I could not afford that someone make these things for me exclusively, so I looked for partners. As I found this in Sinar. Great partners because they have been very competent in their field and they have been very open to discuss with me. This is a fantastic because an exchange of ideas and personal concepts has led to real results! Much more than I ever expected.”

“… i spoke with many people, many are ignorant but others listened and discussed with me. Some of them have been great minds and capacities in their field and so things could happen as new the Sinar arTec…”

“… and then there will soon be a solution which helps everybody in this game. Maybe I am too euphoric at this moment. Please forgive me this.

same source

Edited by Thierry Hagenauer - 03.07.'08
Reason: False Quote of Rainer Viertlböck
 
Last edited by a moderator:
T

Thierry Hagenauer

pro member
... don't forget that the Sinar arTec has a sliding adapter. But even then, its weight is comparable to other camera NOT having this feature!

Thierry

Ken Tanaka said:
1.5 Kg is certainly not p&s territory. But, assuming a correct weight figure was quoted, that's not a negative attribute for a camera aimed specifically at the architectural market. In fact, it might be desirable. The nature of that type of photography often dictates that the camera needs to be extremely steady through long-ish exposures. It's also not a type pf photography that requires a highly mobile camera.

So that's ok with me.
Click to expand...
 
T

Theodore Diehl

New member
Very interesting news Thierry, and congrats on the development of such a specialized camera!
This is making me even more intrigued about upcoming Photokina ;-)
All the best,
Theo
 
T

Thierry Hagenauer

pro member
hi Alain,

This is not planed at this stage. But usually it is the back manufacturer who is taken care of making his adapter for a certain camera platform.

I can't speculate on this however.

Best regards,
Thierry

Alain Briot said:
Hi Thierry,


What about backs from other manufacturers -Phase One, Hasselblad, etc. ?

ALain
Click to expand...
 
T

Thierry Hagenauer

pro member
Michael Fontana said:
That's interesting news, Thierry!

The other day, I talked to another architecture-photographer, and to make it short, we both agreed, that there wasn't a good solution for that type of photography - with the MFbacks, even some other archi-shooters started using Arcas.

My guess of back would be Sinarback 54, or does it accepts other backs, as well?
A 48 x 36 mm-sensor, together with the 23 mm would have for the first time a really wide FOV.
Click to expand...
Currently all Sinarback eMotion and Leaf AFi are supported. No other plans yet.

Michael Fontana said:
The shift looks good to me; as does the sliding ground glass. Is it a easy task to change from the ground glass to the back? Still remembering the same principle Sinar proposed for 6/7- 120-rollies, in the ole days. A renaissance of the black cloths ?? ;-)
Click to expand...
The shifting of the back to the exposure position is very easy, smooth and precise.

Michael Fontana said:
Another important question rises with the internal file-handling:
Does it requires a WB-shot - with a opaque plexiglass?
Click to expand...
The optical laws do not change with this camera: if it needs a white shading depends on the sensor, the lens, the tilt/swing and shift movements.
And, yes, one can of course perform such a white shading and integrate it to the image data to correct those colours casts due to the above optical "issues". But this correction is done on a SW level.

Michael Fontana said:
Is there any lens-correction build in the back?
Click to expand...
Nope, we are speaking here about a camera. The back is another story: at the moment it uses the existing Sinar eMotion and Leaf AFi digital backs.

Michael Fontana said:
I'm not aware of the strengh of the 23 mm...
Click to expand...
I can't say more about this planed lens yet, except that it is under development and manufacturing. I shall certainly come back with details as soon as available.

Best regards,
Thierry
 
Alain Briot

Alain Briot

pro member
Thierry Hagenauer said:
hi Alain,

This is not planed at this stage. But usually it is the back manufacturer who is taken care of making his adapter for a certain camera platform.

Thierry
Click to expand...

Since there's many photographers who already own digital backs from various manufacturers, it would seem a good business move to make the arTec compatible with these backs. We could then buy the arTec and use our current backs.

Provided that I have to buy a leaf back to use the arTec, does Leaf/Sinar provide adapters to other camera platforms? For example, could I use a Leaf back on a Hasselblad?
 
T

Thierry Hagenauer

pro member
hi Alain,

you are basically right, respectively not wrong! However, it has always been the "tradition" that a back manufacturer looks for the adaption of his back.
One can now of course argue and say that Sinar in this case plays the role of a camera manufacturer and should be happy and having interest in having as many different backs as possible on this new camera. Of course, this is right and we would be pleased, obviously.
However, don't forget the component manpower and priorities: we wanted this camera to be finished in time, ready for our backs (and it happens that the Leaf AFi baks can be mounted as well, since using the same Hy6 adaption). You can imagine that we have many other projects running at the same time, and Photokina is not that far.

Concerning Leaf: I can't and don't like to speak for them. However, you don't have to buy a Leaf AFi back (and you won't be able to buy one without purchasing as well the AFi body, since Leaf is selling exclusively the whole system/kit, so far I could understand), but you can use a Sinarback eMotion on the arTec. But provided you would be able to buy a Leaf AFi back, those backs have a dedicated mount fitting only one camera platform. To change to another camera platform you have to change the back.

Sinar has an adapter plates system: any Sinarback can be mounted on any commom exisiting MF platform simply by changing the adapter plate.

Best regards,
Thierry

Alain Briot said:
Since there's many photographers who already own digital backs from various manufacturers, it would seem a good business move to make the arTec compatible with these backs. We could then buy the arTec and use our current backs.

Provided that I have to buy a leaf back to use the arTec, does Leaf/Sinar provide adapters to other camera platforms? For example, could I use a Leaf back on a Hasselblad?
Click to expand...
 
Alain Briot

Alain Briot

pro member
Thierry,

Thank you. I think that right now a lot of photographers are looking for "open" camera systems, i.e. systems in which one can use backs and cameras from different manufacturers interchangeably. The cost of both digital cameras and digital backs are such that there is a significant amount of money to be saved in purchasing from companies that offer open systems.

While design time may be a factor, designing an open versus a closed system is often more a marketing decision than a technical decision.
 
K

Ken Tanaka

pro member
For what, if anything, it's worth I share Alain's opinion. This camera caught my eye, as I often do work for which this camera would probably be well suited. But the revelation that it is designed to be specific to a Leaf back (which I don't need) is a great disappointment and makes the camera a non-starter for me.
 
Alain Briot

Alain Briot

pro member
Personally, I like the arTec but I don't like having to buy a second digital back just to be able to take a photo with it. I already have a back, of the highest resolution available right now, and I don't need a second one. I'm all set in regards to digital backs.
 
T

Thierry Hagenauer

pro member
Dear Ken,

The Sinar arTec is not designed for Leaf backs.

It is a Sinar camera and is as such accepting Sinarbacks. Incidentally, because the Leaf AFi shares the same Hy6 mount than Sinar, the Leaf AFi backs can be mounted and used as well.

Best regards,
Thierry

Ken Tanaka said:
For what, if anything, it's worth I share Alain's opinion. This camera caught my eye, as I often do work for which this camera would probably be well suited. But the revelation that it is designed to be specific to a Leaf back (which I don't need) is a great disappointment and makes the camera a non-starter for me.
Click to expand...
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Thierry,

Do you have a picture from the back showing how stitching would be done and setup with the ground glass. So how much can the camera back be moved within the image circle?

Asher
 
nicolas claris

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Bonjour Asher,
AFAIK, Thierry is on the way from Switzerland to Asia… allow him some time before his reply…
 
M

Michael Fontana

pro member
right Nicolas,
we look at a very early modell of the arTec.

If there is enough shifting possible, I withdraw my wishlist with the "integrated "focusing rail" :)

- Shift V +25/-15mm
- Shift H +20/-20mm

Asher, so its 40 mm of shift.... having a 48 x 36 mm- sensor.

Horizontally, that allows a theoretical flatstitch of 36 x 88 mm...

With the wides, (23 mm!) it'll be much less, I suppose, due to touching the image circle of the lens.
 
Asher Kelman

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Michael Fontana said:
right Nicolas,
we look at a very early modell of the arTec.

If there is enough shifting possible, I withdraw my wishlist with the "integrated "focusing rail" :)

- Shift V +25/-15mm
- Shift H +20/-20mm

Asher, so its 40 mm of shift.... having a 48 x 36 mm- sensor.

Horizontally, that allows a theoretical flatstitch of 36 x 88 mm...

With the wides, (23 mm!) it'll be much less, I suppose, due to touching the image circle of the lens.
Click to expand...

Michael,

36x88 might not be too bad!

Asher
 
K

Ken Tanaka

pro member
Thierry Hagenauer said:
Dear Ken,

The Sinar arTec is not designed for Leaf backs.

It is a Sinar camera and is as such accepting Sinarbacks. Incidentally, because the Leaf AFi shares the same Hy6 mount than Sinar, the Leaf AFi backs can be mounted and used as well.

Best regards,
Thierry
Click to expand...

Thank you for clarifying that, Thierry.
 
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