James Lemon
Well-known member
As I looked through the viewfinder he said to me death is coming brother.
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Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!
Open-air Preacher
- Thread starter James Lemon
- Start date
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
As I looked through the viewfinder he said to me death is coming brother.
James,
We had that with a most capable photographer here and he was so offended that folk questioned his deeply held beliefs. Well, The End of the Word" didn't come in the few months he warned us about. He could be correct in principle, but the mechanics and timing are off!
Asher
Paul Abbott
New member
Hey James, i'd have a go at 'burning' in his shirt a little...it distracts my eye from his face. I might 'dodge' his face a tad also...
James Lemon
Well-known member
Paul Abbott
New member
Oh yeah!! That's so much better, now we can engage with this fella's identity so much more, what a difference. 
James Lemon
Well-known member
Oh yeah!! That's so much better, now we can engage with this fella's identity so much more, what a difference.
This is good to know, very much appreciated Paul. Thank you!
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
James,
This is the most powerful. Why? It shows the gestures that explain his mission: preaching. It's not about him, it's about salvation.
The edited image becomes less dramatic and bland.
There's a danger in second guessing one's own art. What you do in the first artistic flare of creativity has magic. If it works, let it be!
Wonderful image!
Asher
Bob Rogers
New member
The original image also makes you put effort into seeing his eyes and his expression; finding it is the reward.
James Lemon
Well-known member
James,
This is the most powerful. Why? It shows the gestures that explain his mission: preaching. It's not about him, it's about salvation.
The edited image becomes less dramatic and bland.
There's a danger in second guessing one's own art. What you do in the first artistic flare of creativity has magic. If it works, let it be!
Wonderful image!
Asher
Thank you for your insight Asher, you make a very accurate point, the gesture is telling of the story and I agree. I have been struggling by second guessing myself about crushing blacks and blocking the shadows since I started with the B/W medium a couple of years ago. I have been an infrequent amateur photographer since high school but have devoted much more time to it these last few years.
Thank you for your input Bob!Your comments are very helpful and do help me with the discovery of understanding the image better.
Cem_Usakligil
Well-known member
Oh yeah!! That's so much better, now we can engage with this fella's identity so much more, what a difference.
Fwiw, I'm in full agreement with Paul on this. Not that my opinion should make any difference, just to let James know.
Doug Kerr
Well-known member
Hi, James,
I think that is an improvement, as Paul suggested.
Wonderful shot in any case.
As to death: every life has one.
Best regards,
Doug
Thank you for that Paul. Can you tell me what you think of this re-edit ?
I think that is an improvement, as Paul suggested.
Wonderful shot in any case.
As to death: every life has one.
Best regards,
Doug
fahim mohammed
Well-known member
James, I am unable to see any of your images in this post!!
And neither those in the musicians post.
Regards.
And neither those in the musicians post.
Regards.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
A plea!
Paul,
You are right that the second version reveals more of the man. However neither the preacher, not his convictions would want that. The message is of Jesus as a route to salvation or else damnation. So the original does that very well. There's frame, posture, gesture and wet commanding mouth, all working together for the mission the preacher is on.
Again, I implore you not to consider this a portrait just of the man but of what's going on. This fellow is the messenger energized to give the message and that the first picture shows admirable.
There are three important staccato blocks of dark which get the viewers immediate attention with no lingering in one sweep : the bible plus cane, the mouth surrounded by dark face plus hat and the pamphlet in his right hand. These make the picture in a glance. We see the message being offered from the authority of the bible through an unidentified man to the pamphlet offered to passers by.
The edit by contrast is flat, great for identification of the man for any infractions or disturbance of the peace, but has 5% of the power of the original once the face is opened up and becomes something to study.
This kind of change is one we should fear as it's so easy slip into "improving" on what one creates instinctively with flamboyance and flair right off the mark, ruining the art! That's why I have a rule of leaving after such a "needed" edit and after working on something else, return to use the smallest fraction of that change. Well that's my way of doing things. The drives from inside us that control our fast art production can be very rich but is fragile and easily killed off!
The confounding trap here is that once we open up the face and see the humanity of the man, we can get attached to him. It is certainly more sociable and even much more pleasant, but IMHO, a mistake. It goes against the simple power of gesture and power of the word of God alone and not man being important here.
Asher
Paul,
You are right that the second version reveals more of the man. However neither the preacher, not his convictions would want that. The message is of Jesus as a route to salvation or else damnation. So the original does that very well. There's frame, posture, gesture and wet commanding mouth, all working together for the mission the preacher is on.
Again, I implore you not to consider this a portrait just of the man but of what's going on. This fellow is the messenger energized to give the message and that the first picture shows admirable.
There are three important staccato blocks of dark which get the viewers immediate attention with no lingering in one sweep : the bible plus cane, the mouth surrounded by dark face plus hat and the pamphlet in his right hand. These make the picture in a glance. We see the message being offered from the authority of the bible through an unidentified man to the pamphlet offered to passers by.
The edit by contrast is flat, great for identification of the man for any infractions or disturbance of the peace, but has 5% of the power of the original once the face is opened up and becomes something to study.
This kind of change is one we should fear as it's so easy slip into "improving" on what one creates instinctively with flamboyance and flair right off the mark, ruining the art! That's why I have a rule of leaving after such a "needed" edit and after working on something else, return to use the smallest fraction of that change. Well that's my way of doing things. The drives from inside us that control our fast art production can be very rich but is fragile and easily killed off!
The confounding trap here is that once we open up the face and see the humanity of the man, we can get attached to him. It is certainly more sociable and even much more pleasant, but IMHO, a mistake. It goes against the simple power of gesture and power of the word of God alone and not man being important here.
Asher
Paul Abbott
New member
I understand what your saying Asher, and I can see your viewpoint totally. For me though, the interest comes by way of who these people are and they're countenances...but that's just me.
I did only express some issue with his shirt and of course lightening his features if need be, but it looks like James has not lightened the shadows locally, it's been an overall effect. It could be that by way of just 'burning' in his shirt alone and leaving the dark tones the blacks would be better balanced and in your favour, Asher...
I did only express some issue with his shirt and of course lightening his features if need be, but it looks like James has not lightened the shadows locally, it's been an overall effect. It could be that by way of just 'burning' in his shirt alone and leaving the dark tones the blacks would be better balanced and in your favour, Asher...
James Lemon
Well-known member
Somthing in Between
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
James,
Works fine for me. Now how much of the original change did you use? If you yourself like it then it's well worth this version! It has the power and punch needed for the conviction and dedication of this evangelist.
The first person to be satisfied has to be the photographer and then the client paying for the work. We are off to the side, at this moment.
Asher
James Lemon
Well-known member
A Small Variable
Thank you everyone for your feedback. My view is that a the subject is the most important part of an image and deserves as much attention as the photographer can give to it. In this case the subject is the message and not the individual. I have tweaked this just a bit from my last edit and I am happy with this version.
Thank you everyone for your feedback. My view is that a the subject is the most important part of an image and deserves as much attention as the photographer can give to it. In this case the subject is the message and not the individual. I have tweaked this just a bit from my last edit and I am happy with this version.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi James,
This discussion was possible because of an open attitude. We can all learn. It's counterintuitive that the subject is the message of Christ and not the man who's merely the messenger and vehicle. The entire gesture and presence on the street requires a knowledge of what that book might represent. There's no way for, example that we might think he's selling tickets to a Dodger's baseball game or giving out fliers for an "All you can eat for $10" shrimp restaurant.
In the end, you made the edits you needed to and the picture works well for you and so for us too!
Asher
Robert Watcher
Well-known member
Although when i first looked at the post, I would have agreed with a treatment like was done based on what Paul has suggested - - - now that I see them side by side, I do agree that it focuses on the person and takes away from the story.
Here's just another take. Not because I feel it is better - - - I just wanted to combine the ideas and see what I could come up with.
This was working with layers and masks in Photoshop
And then when I uploaded it to my site I ran it through a treatment in my Pixlr online editor
Again - just for fun, as I keep being drawn to the original approach of the poster.
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Here's just another take. Not because I feel it is better - - - I just wanted to combine the ideas and see what I could come up with.
This was working with layers and masks in Photoshop
And then when I uploaded it to my site I ran it through a treatment in my Pixlr online editor
Again - just for fun, as I keep being drawn to the original approach of the poster.
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Maggie Terlecki
Moderator
Weird, Robert...I just edited this. I was getting that firefox couldn't find your server, but obviously back now.Although when i first looked at the post, I would have agreed with a treatment like was done based on what Paul has suggested - - - now that I see them side by side, I do agree that it focuses on the person and takes away from the story.
Here's just another take. Not because I feel it is better - - - I just wanted to combine the ideas and see what I could come up with.
This was working with layers and masks in Photoshop
And then when I uploaded it to my site I ran it through a treatment in my Pixlr online editor
Robert
Again - just for fun, as I keep being drawn to the original approach of the poster.
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I like what you did Robert, and I agree that after seeing the images with the face lightened side by side, that the impact of what was going on was lost as we looked at his face and were distracted from the story. In your second image, I find that book in his hand seems a little bright.
James Lemon
Well-known member
Although when i first looked at the post, I would have agreed with a treatment like was done based on what Paul has suggested - - - now that I see them side by side, I do agree that it focuses on the person and takes away from the story.
Here's just another take. Not because I feel it is better - - - I just wanted to combine the ideas and see what I could come up with.
This was working with layers and masks in Photoshop
And then when I uploaded it to my site I ran it through a treatment in my Pixlr online editor
Again - just for fun, as I keep being drawn to the original approach of the poster.
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Thank you both for your feedback and interest . Much appreciated!
Martin Stephens
New member
Bravo. I like this a lot. It's near perfect. I think the first one posted with the higher contrast and blacker face was far better than dodging the face open. It had more power. Trimming off the right was the right move for better balance and dynamism.