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Printing

Rhys Sage

pro member
I'm using WHCC to do my prints. I have used a tri-color inkjet to do 10x8s etc. What I like about WHCC is I pay once and get my prints. With an inkjet I get so much wastage that the cost frequently quadruples.

Does anybody do their own inkjet printing for competitions and portfolio?

I've just got an order off to WHCC and I'm pretty sure I sent it with the colour balance being off. Had I been able to print it myself, I'd have seen that pretty well straightaway. Fortunately I have time left to send off another order if it is really awful.

I was just looking at the HP K8600 in Staples. Sure - I know inkjets are vehicles for selling ink but I was thinking at $300 it might be worthwhile for the occasional print.
 

Nill Toulme

New member
I do 98% of my own printing, on an Epson 4800. I like having complete control of the process, soup to nuts.

The only thing I send out is sports team & individual shoots, where there's a lot of the same thing, and they want buttons and keyrings and junk like that. That goes to Miller's.

Nill
 

Rhys Sage

pro member
Interesting. I started out here with a Canon i560 and it prints very nice 10x8s - even with generic ink.

I tried an Epson CX9400 Fax and it was horrendous. Mind, the paper I was using I realise now, wasn't very good either. I'm still glad I sold that thing.

I'm looking at the HP Officejet Pro K8600 as it's a quick turnaround for 11x14s for my portfolio and possibly for competition photos prints.

For customer orders, I'm still happier with ordering them from WHCC on the basis that printing takes so darned long and is so expensive in comparison with what WHCC can do.

Edit:

I looked at the costs of ink for two of the printers - the HP K8600 takes $80 worth of ink. The Epson 1400 takes $120 worth of ink. Basically... highly uneconomical.

It seems I'm better doing a 5x7 test print on my i560 to check for colour cast and sending off to WHCC for the real prints.
 
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Nill Toulme

New member
Well as a starting point you certainly want a dedicated photo printer... not something like a fax or office type printer that's geared for text and maybe graphics, not accurate photo reproduction.

And saying a printer takes $120 worth of ink is hardly even a starting point in deciding whether it's economical or not. Will you get 200 or 1000 prints out of that $120 worth of ink?

Paper choice is critical in getting good results, as is profiling for your chosen paper.

Also worthy of consideration is print longevity. Dye ink prints will often start to fade noticeably after a year or less. Pigment inks, OTOH, can exceed "true" photographic prints in longevity.

Nill
 

Rhys Sage

pro member
Well as a starting point you certainly want a dedicated photo printer... not something like a fax or office type printer that's geared for text and maybe graphics, not accurate photo reproduction.

And saying a printer takes $120 worth of ink is hardly even a starting point in deciding whether it's economical or not. Will you get 200 or 1000 prints out of that $120 worth of ink?

Paper choice is critical in getting good results, as is profiling for your chosen paper.

Also worthy of consideration is print longevity. Dye ink prints will often start to fade noticeably after a year or less. Pigment inks, OTOH, can exceed "true" photographic prints in longevity.

Nill

Judging by the complete lack of ink coverage details on the HP K8600 printer, the ink won't cover very many 8x10 prints.

As a guide, the most 8x10 full photo prints I can get out of most cartridges is 30. As such, $120 for the Epson for a mere 30 prints is utterly worthless.

I can get an 8x10 print for $2 from Kodak. It looks like I'm much better waiting and planning ahead - as I'd decided when I considered the options a few months ago. Doubtless I shall return to the question as it's generally good to review all decisions every 6 months or so.
 

Nill Toulme

New member
It's true that small consumer printers are not particularly cost-effective. My 4800 uses 220ml cartridges which I buy wholesale. An 8x10 print costs me less than a dollar, paper included.

Nill
 

Rhys Sage

pro member
It's true that small consumer printers are not particularly cost-effective. My 4800 uses 220ml cartridges which I buy wholesale. An 8x10 print costs me less than a dollar, paper included.

Nill

Yes... Economy of scale. At the moment I'm struggling even to get clients. I've just asked the TV company to edit my advert. It had been directing people to my website. I've asked them now to include my phone number. Although hits on my site are up it's not turning into phonecalls and bookings.

Given more money there's a lot I'll be doing. First off - more expensive and better advertising (can only afford the cheap stuff right now) then I might upgrade some of my camera gear.

There's a new dry cleaner opening in a large purpose-built office locally. As they're in competition with two other dry cleaners in the same street we expect them to go bust fairly quickly (6 months to a year). Thus, given adequate income I might take over the building and turn it into a commercial studio, aimed at corporate and amateur clients - basically - a studio for hire. I notice from my other ventures that services to amateurs and professionals seems to make more money than selling to Joe Public.
 

Tim Armes

New member
Does anybody do their own inkjet printing for competitions and portfolio?

Hi Rhys,

I do, in fact I'm currently exhibiting 70 images that I printed myself using an Epson 3800 onto Exhibition Fiber Paper.

I print myself for many reasons:

1) It's more versatile. I can choose from an enourmous range of fine art papers depending on the subject matter. These papers are only available for ink jet printers.

2) There's no waiting

3) It's personally satisfying

4) I get better results - I trust my own profiling and colour management skills more than the lab's.

4) It's a *lot* cheaper than going to my photo lab. I can print an A3 print on the above paper for maybe three euros, where my local lab charges over 20 for the same thing.

Tim
 

Rhys Sage

pro member
I'd like to do my own printing for my personal stuff. The cost of a printer though ($1000 for that Epson) is a little daunting at the moment.

I can get a 10x8 for $2, an 11x14 for $6 and a 16x24 for $20 online - which isn't too bad.
 

Ken Tanaka

pro member
I'd like to do my own printing for my personal stuff. The cost of a printer though ($1000 for that Epson) is a little daunting at the moment.

I can get a 10x8 for $2, an 11x14 for $6 and a 16x24 for $20 online - which isn't too bad.
So why, exactly, did you start this thread?
 

Rhys Sage

pro member
So why, exactly, did you start this thread?

Thinking out loud really.

I see some do their own printing with thousand dollar printers. I can't justify that at the moment. I did idly wonder about the HP 17 inch printer. Realistically though I can do without the expense.
 

Alain Briot

pro member
If a $1k printer is daunting, I'd be damned careful about taking on the overhead of a studio lease...

Nill

or the cost of a TV advertising campaign . . . Good point. In business it's important to have specific goals, deadlines and above all, a specific plan of action. The decision of printing yourself or through a 3rd party is critical and should have been done before advertising your services. A 1k investment in a pro printer for a photography studio is really not over the top by any means. Pro Photography equipment is very expensive and a pro studio needs to have pro equipment...
 

Rhys Sage

pro member
or the cost of a TV advertising campaign . . . Good point. In business it's important to have specific goals, deadlines and above all, a specific plan of action. The decision of printing yourself or through a 3rd party is critical and should have been done before advertising your services. A 1k investment in a pro printer for a photography studio is really not over the top by any means. Pro Photography equipment is very expensive and a pro studio needs to have pro equipment...

Printing isn't really that high on my priorities hence I was idly considering a $300 printer. I'm trying to get a few shoot and burns done. Meanwhile, for those that demand prints, I can always use WHCC.

The studio I don't need nor want at the moment. I see a potential studio coming up in about a years time. Between then and now there's a lot of water to paddle through.

The cheaper printer would have the benefit of being able to do 11x14 portfolio prints instantly - on the other hand I did cost it and it worked out double the price of WHCC.

My specific goals/plan of action (which is why advertising is the current priority) is getting some trade going. I had some interested enquiries from a couple of brides but they went with more expensive photographers. Maybe when my current advertising campaign ends I should raise my prices. It seems to be a better investment to spend my budget advertising than to blow it on un-necessary gear. Having said that, it doesn't stop me from studying the gear, discussing it and coming to a conclusion as to what to buy when the money rolls in.
 

Kathy Rappaport

pro member
Double the budget

If you're planning on a physical studio there are many things you won't think about until it's open.

In your business plan, make sure you have a lot of leeway because it is incredible what comes up even when it's all well thought out. And whatever it is, it takes money!
 

Rhys Sage

pro member
If you're planning on a physical studio there are many things you won't think about until it's open.

In your business plan, make sure you have a lot of leeway because it is incredible what comes up even when it's all well thought out. And whatever it is, it takes money!

I'm not planning a physical studio yet. Since there aren't any hirable studios locally, I might start one and rent it out. That's a different business entity though.
 

Matt Suess

pro member
Printing isn't really that high on my priorities hence I was idly considering a $300 printer...

Rhys,

If printing isn't high on your priorities then it would be best for your clients for you to continue using an outside lab to do your printing. It seems at this stage you are concerned with cost more than quality. You are not going to find either in a cheap, non-professional printer.

You would definitely save money in the long run, and achieve greater quality, with the right pro printer - but if it's not in the budget why get a cheap office printer? Your customers will me much happier with the lab prints.

Also you mentioned earlier in this thread that you can proof on your i560 to check for color cast before sending images out to a lab - not the best idea. Most likely the lab is not using the same printer, the same inks, the same paper, the same profile, etc. Basically what I am saying is that what you see color-wise and tone-wise from your i560 is not going to be a good indication of how a lab print is going to look.

Your best bet - save the $300 you were thinking of spending on the cheap printer and instead use the money to buy something to calibrate your monitor - a properly calibrated monitor is going to be much better at determining your color casts. I wrote a step-by-step approach on how to calibrate your monitor a couple years ago - you can find it on my website here: http://www.dramatic-landscape.com/articles/calibration/calibration.html
 

Rhys Sage

pro member
Oddly enough, my Macbook screen has output just like the prints I had back. It's pretty darned accurate.

My PC I wouldn't trust - not least because the monitor is widescreen and the graphics card doesn't allow for that.
 
Oddly enough, my Macbook screen has output just like the prints I had back. It's pretty darned accurate.

My PC I wouldn't trust - not least because the monitor is widescreen and the graphics card doesn't allow for that.

Then you have been lucky. And I would not count on luck to allow you to continue producing prints that match your screen. A calibrated monitor is almost as necessary a tool as a camera to a serious photographer.

A better investment than an expensive printer would be a screen calibration system. A good printer requires regular use to keep from clogging. If you don't use it, you loose it, or at least a lot of ink getting the nozzles clean.

<Chas>
 
Rhys,

it all depends on your goals, as Alain pointed out, that is the first step to be performed, define your goals, then you can think about your needs to achieve the goals, which inevitably leeds to budgetary questions.

From here on you can make steps to achieve your goal.

From my own little experience I can tell you that much, you can have the best plan in the world, be prepared to change it, as things will go wrong, in other words, have contingencies and other routes to go as well.

Common sense dictates colormanagement to be inevitable, this dictates a propper screen and a CM calibration tool. Then comes the printer and eventually profiling as well. Having said that, if you were to buy a Epson 3800 for example, which is my backup and below A3 printer and just examine the output of the Epson Driver, I bet my bottom dollar you will be very pleased with the output. Then you could go the extra mile and profile your own papers to achieve a surplus of ~5% in quality, it is not that much but can make a difference depending on your source.

Last not least, you need a plan....

Best,
Georg
 

Nina Parker

New member
How large are these machines? My studio is in my home, and space is limited. I've avoided considering this for a while because I felt fairly sure it was more cost productive to order from a lab, plus I really can't fit a giant printer in my office. But several hiccups with the printer and the general inconvenience factor have me reconsidering.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
How large are these machines? My studio is in my home, and space is limited. I've avoided considering this for a while because I felt fairly sure it was more cost productive to order from a lab, plus I really can't fit a giant printer in my office. But several hiccups with the printer and the general inconvenience factor have me reconsidering.

Nina,

Welcome to OPF!

An approach I use is to work with a local printshop and have them print a couple of favorite images on the exact exhibition paper you like most be it with an Epson, HP or Canon. Get the version of that machine you can justify by your main print sizes. I choose the Canon system and a 17” and only use the papers I have had the printshop test for me.

For my home system I use a Passport Gretag Macbeth chart and software to calibrate my camera and that is picked up, (and you select), in Photoshop or Lightroom in RAW development.

Never alter the color of an image in an uncalibrated/profiled monitor. Your local print shop, (for the occasional very large prints), will give you a profile to match your monitor to theirs. Or you can use a Phase One instrument, Eye One to correct your monitor. I used to do that but now I have an Eizo RGB monitor with built in spectrophotometer so it’s “plug in and set then forget about it”!

There is still some adjustment to do even when you try to exactly reproduce what is done in the printshop, but if you can establish a relationship then you can print at home with negligable waste. It’s key to print only SECTIONS of large prints until everything is as you wish. Very dry matte paper can behave differently, for example, in the air of a printshop to paper in your studio where the air already has more water and the paper takes some in. That means that the spread of the ink can vary slightly on flat papers.

Of course, you need to give some work to the printshop to get a relationship. I have them do large prints and all my framing or laminating. I use “The Artists Corner” in Hollywood CA. They are fabulous. But of course a ship near you is even better. They use Canon Printers.

Mention my name.

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Nina,

I forgot to address size. My colleagues who purchased very large printers happened to not fully use them.

17” wide provides the opportunity for both 17” x 24” for example as well as panoramic 17” x 34” or more.

With a decent sized matt, the first give a frame print of about 20” x 30” . Could you manage within that limitation?

For headshots, mostly I have to deliver 8”x10”, so this allows for additional sales of full
Length body portraits or engagement pictures, for example!

The size of the Prograph Pro-1000 is 17” x 28.5” and 11” high.

Add to that 10” behind for the paper loading tray and 5” at front for the paper delivery.

Further, that rear paper tray angle reaches at the back to 17” above the table top.

Asher
 
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