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  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Sharpening workflow question

Andrew Rodney

New member
Hiyas,

Jumping in, perhaps only testing waters with the toes, but... isn't "Clarity" a sigmoidal contrast algo? Adobe is scant on the "formulae" for its functions(to wit, USM has a "black&white" kernel, and the "blur" is applied uniformly across the entire image data, IIRC). Therefore, "Clarity" only alters contrast, an item often mistaken for "sharpness", and having nothing of the USM effects... thus, I suspect should be applied /before/ USM.

rgds,
Dave

I don't know what that means. I DO know the recipe of doing this in Photoshop, its a simple Midtone contrast boast developed by Mac Holbert at Nash editions which uses a blend If on either end of the tone scale to feather off the contrast in highlights and shadows (hence the Midtone concentration). It uses an overlay bland mode with a dose of High Pass. Very simple, very effective.
 

Dave See

New member
I don't know what that means. I DO know the recipe of doing this in Photoshop, its a simple Midtone contrast boast developed by Mac Holbert at Nash editions which uses a blend If on either end of the tone scale to feather off the contrast in highlights and shadows (hence the Midtone concentration). It uses an overlay bland mode with a dose of High Pass. Very simple, very effective.
Hi Rodney,

Sounds like it("Clarity") is a kind of sigmoidal algo... have a look at this wikipedia entry(and the images of graphs) and my post may make more sense... s'what I like about software(!), the engineers name, and the marketing name... I do beleive we're talking around the same subject...

...but increased contrast is just that, dark darker, light lighter, but nothing sharper.

rgds,
Dave
 
I do beleive we're talking around the same subject...

Maybe, but I think there is a difference. Contrast (whether sigmoidal or simple) is linearly applied to all pixel values, where as a high-pass filter addesses certain spatial frequencies and thus could be called non-linear as it adapts to scene content.

...but increased contrast is just that, dark darker, light lighter, but nothing sharper.

I agree, contrast is not the same as sharpening. Sharpening can only be done with a variation of a process called deconvolution (which inverses the blur function).

Bart
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
New sharpening action December 2007

Hi folks
I recently had some PM exchanges with Michael Fontana about midtones contrasts, so I tried different actions that one can find on the web…

I found all to produce too much halos, or when being low blended to be of no use.

So i did introduce to my sharpening action some other tricks that I use on most of my files…

I added:
• Shadow/Hilight filter to add some midtone contrats AND open a bit the shadows and reveal some of the burned highlights.
• at the end of the script a slight curve to open-up the 3/4 tones…

I changed:
some script settings to compensate the increase of contrasts in the midtone, therefore avoiding halos…

The layer is set at 50 %, of course you may change this according to taste and needs…

I also discovered that running the action twice on the orignal layer may enhance even more… giving much thiner results than setting the sharpened layer to 100%

You may download the zip file that contain the old and the lastest scripts to be loaded into PS C2 or CS3…

Constructive comments and suggestions (Michael? Bart?) always welcome…

Here
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Nicolas,

Where is your latest link?

Bart, Andrew

Why does one do output sharpening and then not have an issue with subsequent workflow adjustments to further enhance any artifacts brought about by sharpening?

Asher
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Why does one do output sharpening and then not have an issue with subsequent workflow adjustments to further enhance any artifacts brought about by sharpening?

Asher

Bonsoir Asher
can you make your question more clear please? I don't understand…
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Bonsoir Asher
can you make your question more clear please? I don't understand…
Nicolas,

O.K., here's a more direct approach.

I don't do any output sharpening. In fact shamefully I do not use your sharpening method either. The reason is that most of my work is done for showing on the web or else printing to a maximum 8x10. So the larger images never get fully processed beyond careful curves, local issues etc. I just process the RAW, make all my other changes in CS2 then down res (sorry Bart, no blur step before hand) and admit I use two runs of USM, one for regional and the other for local sharpening. sharpening is done is layers for each subject of interest and erased with different brushes. I'm a little lazy and I do this so fast I have not wanted to change.

With my new upcoming large format printer (another issue), my selective sharpening system will be changed entirely. Probably I will use some version of your action!

Output sharpening: I am perplexed as to the need for output sharpen at all so early when there may be residual noise? Why do people bother? So that's my question, I was trying to be well-mannered and not 'diss" the whole idea.

Asher
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Asher
try this:
PP your hires file as you do (with no sharpening)
After downsizing, run my latest action, the result will be shown on a layer that you may blend more or less, even erase some part of it.

You will be amazed by the resulting image, even getting some 3D aspect (from the new work on midtone).

Would love to have comments from users…
 

Michael Fontana

pro member
Bonsoir Nicolas

I' t ll come, I'm sitting at last years taxes... :-(

generally, midtones-sharpening does a very good job, by avoiding to enhance the extremes, (shadow-highlight) and therefore providing sharper images, with less jaggies/halo's.
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Asher

here is an example:
1Ds2 file C1 RC output without sharpening
Downsized at 800 pix in PS CS2

_G8A0551.jpg

and then after action run…
_G8A0551_net.jpg

Here the same original tif file as been treated with the action prior to downsize and then again the action with layer at 40%…
_G8A0551_net2.jpg
 

Michael Fontana

pro member
Ou lala! I don't envy you…

Thanks, you know, tomatoes in the brain, etc.... ;-)

BTW: The Blend-if-option, that you introduced new, can be customized for each single file, for adjusting bright images vs. dark ones - to set the little triangles position.

A good overview of the Blen-if is here

Bart knows that one too, as he used it - a bit different - in his downrez-hints - post Nr 6 in this thread here.
I made a action out of that one, too; but it's image-size related, so it's useless to share.

The goal was to have a fast worflow, for HDRs in Photoacute: downrez, sharpen and save directly out of LR by telling it to open the exported file in PS, and adding a PS-action (in form of a droplet) within the LR's export-dialogue.

So basically, after the RAW (DNGs)-edits in LR, the entire rest is done automatically, by gaining about 300% of speed vs doing it manually!

As °Blend-if° limits the sharpening on the uncritical midtones, one can pass through all the files, whithout extra-manual-fussing.


Still we talk about 380 MB-DNGs, so automatation is a big help.
 

Michael Fontana

pro member
I'm sure he will jump in!

One important point within his hint is the downscale-ratio for selecting the Gaussian blur; therefore one has to adapt/customize it for the personal cam's native size and the final size.

I don't mind making public that °Bart°-action, working for 1 Ds-2-size to webitiffs - about 1200 pixels - by adding your action at the end...

little Xmasgift for the OPF-members?
 

Michael Fontana

pro member
I agree; now I gave your new action some tries; the results are good!
- which was to expect, as the light, shadows and midtones are threated differently.

At the end of it, you could merge the two °Sharpend layers°s and add a layermask; just in case.... for extreme situations.

BTW: From Düsseldorf to Bâle, the train takes about 4 h hrs...
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Asher

here is an example:
1Ds2 file C1 RC output without sharpening
Downsized at 800 pix in PS CS2

_G8A0551.jpg

and then after action run…
_G8A0551_net.jpg

Here the same original tif file as been treated with the action prior to downsize and then again the action with layer at 40%…
_G8A0551_net2.jpg
Now to complete the comparison, below is a file exported from C1 directly at 800 pixels but sharpened (75) in C1 and then with the action with layer set @ 40%
_G8A0551-3.jpg
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
It appears that some Windows users couldn't use the zip file with CS3…

this one has been tested on Windows by Ray: Here (same name and location than the previous)
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
Hi Nicolas,

Thanks a lot for the improved action :).
I have a couple of questions if I may:
1) There are two scripts in the action called "Nicolas sharpness action" and "Nicolas sharpness lightness action 2". I assume we should run the second one for the improvements you've introduced, right?
2) In the first script, the very first action is to duplicate current layer twice. Is that intentional and if so, why?

BTW, I can read the zip file just fine as you could conclude from my post ;-).

Cheers,
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
1) There are two scripts in the action called "Nicolas sharpness action" and "Nicolas sharpness lightness action 2". I assume we should run the second one for the improvements you've introduced, right?
2) In the first script, the very first action is to duplicate current layer twice. Is that intentional and if so, why?

Hi Cem
1) the 1st script is the same as previous, with the only difference is that it creates a layer (called "Sharpened layer") from the selected layer, not from background layer (though this is still possible if BG layer is selected)

2) Hoops! you're right, this is an error from me, I'll delete the wrong one and repost a corrected version… thanks for pointing me on that!

[EDIT]
CORRECTED files can be found:

tar file
zip file

both same but different compression encoding
[/EDIT]
 
Hi folks,

I'll try combining my answers to a couple of different posts, to reduce space and since they are related it's best to prevent fragmentation of original questions and my reactions.


So i did introduce to my sharpening action some other tricks that I use on most of my files…

I added:
• Shadow/Hilight filter to add some midtone contrats AND open a bit the shadows and reveal some of the burned highlights.
• at the end of the script a slight curve to open-up the 3/4 tones…
...
Constructive comments and suggestions (Michael? Bart?) always welcome…

Nicolas, thanks for your generosity in sharing your insights collected over the course of years. The actions provide a very good starting (or for some an end) point in achieving improved output quality.

That being said, I noticed you have set/kept the clipping points in the Shadow/Highlight filter to 0.01%. Personally I prefer to keep as much original data (after Raw conversion) in the file to be processed. Clipping 2x 0.01% of 21MP files still affects 2x 210.000 pixels with potentially somewhat useful data. I have my defaults for the S/H filter set to 0%, and sometimes set it to the minimum of 0.001% if I intentionally want to reduce unused S/H histogram bins to increase overall contrast. The reason I have my defaults set/saved as 0% is that it allows to maintain overall contrast in low contrast (e.g. hazy or high key) images.

I don't do any output sharpening. In fact shamefully I do not use your sharpening method either. The reason is that most of my work is done for showing on the web or else printing to a maximum 8x10.

I think it is important to note that Nicolas' action does 2 different things wrapped into 1 (and I suggest to separate them for flexibility). First his action improves tonality, especially when one starts (which I prefer) with a linear tone curve from Raw conversion. Pixel values will get tossed around more than enough in subsequent PP, so I like to prevent accumulation of round-off errors as much as possible, especially in the early stages of PP.

I just process the RAW, make all my other changes in CS2 then down res (sorry Bart, no blur step before hand)

LOL, hey they are your images, so you can mistreat them anyway you see fit ...
wink.gif
don't do it just to please me. However, I still do encourage 'some' pre-blur to prevent aliasing artifacts cause by sub-optimal resizing algorithms.

As °Blend-if° limits the sharpening on the uncritical midtones, one can pass through all the files, whithout extra-manual-fussing.

Probably a minor second/third language thing, but you probably intended to say it restricts it to the mid-tones.

I'm sure he will jump in!

You bet I will!

One important point within his hint is the downscale-ratio for selecting the Gaussian blur; therefore one has to adapt/customize it for the personal cam's native size and the final size.

Yes, unfortunately (due to the virtually brain-dead down-sampling implementation in Photoshop to gain speed) this cannot be fully automated, unless one repeatedly makes common size reductions. For recurring resampling, like full size Raw from camera 'X' down to 800x600 pixels for posting in OPF, I have made an action for myself that does it all in one sequence (I actually use several for different output destinations/sizes). I convert to the output colorspace for the intended output device, preblur with the appropriate amount, resize with bi-cubic resampling ('File>Automate>Fit image' automatically handles portrait and landscape orientation), boost selected spatial frequencies for pleasing viewing contrast, add a little very small radius Smart sharpening (lens blur variation), change mode to 8 b/ch, all in one click of the mouse.

I don't mind making public that °Bart°-action, working for 1 Ds-2-size to webitiffs - about 1200 pixels - by adding your action at the end...

We think alike ...

little Xmasgift for the OPF-members?
I would be glad, but it's up to Bart!

I think Micheal meant, the suggestion to incorporate it all in one action, is an Xmas gift. If needed I can offer a generic version for download, but some customization may still be needed for different camera file sizes and output devices.

I agree; now I gave your new action some tries; the results are good!
- which was to expect, as the light, shadows and midtones are threated differently.

At the end of it, you could merge the two °Sharpend layers°s and add a layermask; just in case.... for extreme situations.

In fact I've suggested to Nicolas in a PM to separate the Tonemapping and the actual sharpening parts of his actions, so they can be utilized on their own, or as subroutines in other actions or a 'container' action. Such a container action can then be augmented with e.g. masks as you suggest, but that becomes an easy thing to do should one feel a need.

Bart
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
...That being said, I noticed you have set/kept the clipping points in the Shadow/Highlight filter to 0.01%. Personally I prefer to keep as much original data (after Raw conversion) in the file to be processed. Clipping 2x 0.01% of 21MP files still affects 2x 210.000 pixels with potentially somewhat useful data...
Hi Bart,

Has my math deteriorated that much?
Is 0.01% of 21,000,000 not 2,100 rather than the 210,000 you've come up with?

Cheers,
 
Hi Bart,

Has my math deteriorated that much?
Is 0.01% of 21,000,000 not 2,100 rather than the 210,000 you've come up with?

Good catch! Nothing wrong with your math, just my pocket calculator skills when pressed for time. Thanks for pointing out. At least you've, apparently, gone through the effort of reading my long response ... ;-)

Bart
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Hi Cem
anyway it is still too much, I agree with Bart on his comment, these settings were not good as the purpose is to keep and increase data amount to sharpen hence the reason why this is the first part of the script…

I did make an r2 version of the last ones (which replaces the previous on the server)

I took this opportunity to simplify the allaction by suppressing one script and correcting values of the preceeding…

CORRECTED files can be found:
tar file
zip file
 
Last edited:

Ron Morse

New member
I gave Nicolas's latest 2 actions a try on a shot that I took a few weeks ago on a very cold day with the wind so strong it was pushing me around. I used my 28-135 IS. I would have used the 70-200 f/2.8 IS but didn't have it with me.

As I remember the only thing done was WB in RAW then levels in CS3 although I usually use curves.

I was not happy with this image so gave it a shot with Nicolas's new actions.

Fort knox
Bucksport, Maine
40D
28-135 IS

Previous action


Still just a snapshot but in this case with Nicolas's lightness 2 action I think improved with just a click.
Both at default.
 
Last edited:

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Hi Ron

thanks for posting, it is always interesting to see what it does on others files.
BTW What camera body do you use?

Seeing the pics posted I think that effectively the action 2 gave better result, however I would have blended it down to 40 or 35%…

Thanks for posting!
 

Ron Morse

New member
Hi Ron

thanks for posting, it is always interesting to see what it does on others files.
BTW What camera body do you use?

Seeing the pics posted I think that effectively the action 2 gave better result, however I would have blended it down to 40 or 35%…

Thanks for posting!

The camera is a 40D Nicolas. I guess you missed it. Its just above the first picture.

Thanks for all the actions. They are very much appreciated.
 
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