Shooting B&W With Asher

[Mike Shimwell]

Thanks,

It was 'quite atmospheric' in a damp sort of way I haven't thought of a title yet, beyond the obvious description. But I'm about to order a silver print from Ilford using my print file. I'm hoping that this will at least give me a starting point to compare silver prints with my digital output.

MIke

 

[Asher Kelman]

Thanks,

It was 'quite atmospheric' in a damp sort of way I haven't thought of a title yet, beyond the obvious description. But I'm about to order a silver print from Ilford using my print file. I'm hoping that this will at least give me a starting point to compare silver prints with my digital output.

MIke

I'd love to have the report of the result, from you and others who don't know one method from another.

Asher

 

[Dawid Loubser]

On the topic of printing, over the past week-end I made my first 16x20in analogue silver print from the negative that I scanned this from:

This is the first time I made such a large darkroom print, and I am absolutely floored by the quality. It's an ISO 400 (Ilford HP5) 6x7cm negative, but I have never ever seen a 35mm print with fine grained film like Pan F, or a digital print, come close. Every last grain of wool in the old man's shirt is clearly rendered, and I love how subtly shallow the depth of field is on such a large print, even though I shot the above at f/8 (140mm Macro lens).

The more I play in the darkroom with medium format, the more ironic I find posts on the internet claiming that professional digital (be it Nikon D3xx, Canon 1Dsxxx, or Leica M9) come even close to medium-format for black and white output - not to mention comparison to 4x5in film (I have yet to go there.). I base this statement on having downloaded "pixel-sharp" full samples of M9 and D3x files, and experimenting with them.

It's incredible fun to, for an investment of less than $1000 (camera and all the darkroom kit), produce prints which one simply can not produce with $15,000 worth of digital kit. I have yet to shoot medium format digital, so I will reserve statements on that, but my experience has now has me believing that nothing in 35mm comes close, no matter what you do.

Guys, pull out your old cameras and shoot more B&W!

 

[Mike Shimwell]

Dawid

I'm looking forward to seeing a good optical print again one day in the (hopefully) not too distant future. I think this is one that we need to do for ourselves with all of the hype out there - much generated by people who ar running very succesful businesses it would seem!

Meanwhile, another scan from 35mm Acros - shot from a train window one morning as I headed up to Glasgow.

Mike

 

[Asher Kelman]

On the topic of printing, over the past week-end I made my first 16x20in analogue silver print from the negative that I scanned this from:

This is the first time I made such a large darkroom print, and I am absolutely floored by the quality. It's an ISO 400 (Ilford HP5) 6x7cm negative, but I have never ever seen a 35mm print with fine grained film like Pan F, or a digital print, come close. Every last grain of wool in the old man's shirt is clearly rendered, and I love how subtly shallow the depth of field is on such a large print, even though I shot the above at f/8 (140mm Macro lens).

The more I play in the darkroom with medium format, the more ironic I find posts on the internet claiming that professional digital (be it Nikon D3xx, Canon 1Dsxxx, or Leica M9) come even close to medium-format for black and white output - not to mention comparison to 4x5in film (I have yet to go there.). I base this statement on having downloaded "pixel-sharp" full samples of M9 and D3x files, and experimenting with them.

It's incredible fun to, for an investment of less than $1000 (camera and all the darkroom kit), produce prints which one simply can not produce with $15,000 worth of digital kit. I have yet to shoot medium format digital, so I will reserve statements on that, but my experience has now has me believing that nothing in 35mm comes close, no matter what you do.

Guys, pull out your old cameras and shoot more B&W!

This is so exciting! I'm looking forward to doing the same. So how did you process the HP5? Also what are your printing it with?

Asher

 

[Dawid Loubser]

This is so exciting! I'm looking forward to doing the same. So how did you process the HP5? Also what are your printing it with?

Asher

Hi Asher,

For the past two years, I have been developing my film myself with a locally-made developing chemical (powder-based) which claims to be equivalent to Kodak D-76/Ilford ID-11. I develop in a Nikor metal tank (loading 120 film on metal reels is so much easier than loading 35mm [which has had me cursing a couple of times]).

I develop with the developer diluted 1+1, for 11min at 20ºC (both for FP4 and HP5 film).

I print on an Omega D5XL (realy large, wonderful enlarger that goes to 4x5in) which my colleague and I got second-hand for $200. I printed the image we are discussing with a EL-Nikkor 135mm f/5.6 enlarging lens, but at this magnification the enlarger head was right against the roof.

I picked up a mint Schneider W.A. Componon 80mm enlarging lens today at a local shop, I paid about $60 for it, so this week-end I will see how it compares (for 6x7cm negatives), it should be a lot easier than the 135mm, although the Nikkor lens is a thing of beauty. I also bought a big box of 12x16in paper, lots of large prints in my future...

 

[Mike Shimwell]

Another 'home' picture. This one is my borther, cooking up lunch for us all. Whilst these are not necessarily the most exciting o pictures, I have to admint I find a real pleasure in the simple things and people so represented.

HP5 in Aculux.

Mike

 

[Mike Shimwell]

Mike​

 

[Mike Shimwell]

I would seem to be the last one shooting film here

I visited this chapel this weekend whilst on a family trip to Northumberland. I've passed by before, and will return, but this is a quick stitch from 3 dirty negs to test out the idea.

Mike

 

[Asher Kelman]

Another 'home' picture. This one is my borther, cooking up lunch for us all. Whilst these are not necessarily the most exciting o pictures, I have to admint I find a real pleasure in the simple things and people so represented.

HP5 in Aculux.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Pictures like this which allow one to build the rest of the situation in one's own mind, (relying on the materials that each define another part of this world), are particularly satisfying for me. Yes, it's a little bit of a puzzle, but there's enough for me to engage in this scene and the rest allows me to draw on all my experiences and that's the extra richness I feel here.

Thanks!

Asher

 

[Dawid Loubser]

I would seem to be the last one shooting film here

By no means, old chap... I printed these three this past week-end:

"Crooked"

(Mamiya RB67, 50mm at f/32, Ilford FP4+, 8x10in hand print on Ilford MG IV)

"Chompski the fish"

(Mamiya RB67, 50mm at f/4.5, 1s hand-held exposure, Ilford FP4+, 8x10in hand print on Ilford MG IV)

"Amidst the chaos"

(Olympus OM-1n, 90mm at f/2.0, Ilford HP5 at ISO800, 8x10in hand print on Ilford MG IV)​

For a shallow depth of field shooter like me, the depth of field control on a typical medium format system is simply wonderful. The goldfish shot was taken with the f/4.5 very-wide-angle lens, whereas one needs quite exotic 35mm lenses to achieve a similar look. Of course, if you favour deep depth of field, then medium format is your enemy, since you typically don't have lens movements (like typical large format cameras do), and you have to stop your lens WAY down (requiring a tripod).

 

[Dawid Loubser]

Whilst these are not necessarily the most exciting o pictures, I have to admint I find a real pleasure in the simple things and people so represented.

Mike, you mirror my thoughts exactly. Half of my shots are plain "snapshots" of family moments, etc. Many people would think my crazy to "waste" a piece of 6x7cm film for this.

However, I also find real pleasure in preserving memories as silver grains on a big ol' piece of film. Twenty years from now, what we see as simple B&W snapshots will be extra special. As a side benefit, printing so many snapshots are great for building up my darkroom skills for the more carefully-contemplated images.

 

[Mike Shimwell]

Hi David

I'm glad it's not just me. Here's one from the other day - Simonside Woods in Northumberland

Mike

 

[Mike Shimwell]

By no means, old chap... I printed these three this past week-end:

"Crooked"

(Mamiya RB67, 50mm at f/32, Ilford FP4+, 8x10in hand print on Ilford MG IV)

"Chompski the fish"

(Mamiya RB67, 50mm at f/4.5, 1s hand-held exposure, Ilford FP4+, 8x10in hand print on Ilford MG IV)

"Amidst the chaos"

(Olympus OM-1n, 90mm at f/2.0, Ilford HP5 at ISO800, 8x10in hand print on Ilford MG IV)​

For a shallow depth of field shooter like me, the depth of field control on a typical medium format system is simply wonderful. The goldfish shot was taken with the f/4.5 very-wide-angle lens, whereas one needs quite exotic 35mm lenses to achieve a similar look. Of course, if you favour deep depth of field, then medium format is your enemy, since you typically don't have lens movements (like typical large format cameras do), and you have to stop your lens WAY down (requiring a tripod).

David,

Thanks for posting these. The first is smashing, I like the sun in the frame and the fairly well controlled flare.

Mike

 

[Dawid Loubser]

David,

Thanks for posting these. The first is smashing, I like the sun in the frame and the fairly well controlled flare.

Mike

Thanks Mike. The Mamiya RB 50mm is not nearly as resistant to secondary reflections as the 65mm, but the much wider angle of view is very useful, so I find myself using it more than the 65mm.

What film / lens did you use for your "woods" shot?

 

[Mike Shimwell]

Hi Dawid

The 'woods' shot is on Fomapan 100 developed in Aculux 1+14. It's 35mm using a Zeiss Biogon 35/2, a lovely lens and my first roll of Fomapan. There are a couple more below...

Mike

Treeline

A bit of fun with the 15 Super Wide Heliar

 

[Mike Shimwell]

And one more for luck - I'm liking this film at the moment.

Mike

 

[Dawid Loubser]

And one more for luck - I'm liking this film at the moment.

Mike, I like your last one the best of the recently posted ones. Have you tried a more panoramic crop, losing most of the sky?

 

[Dawid Loubser]

This Weekend's Prints

Apart from Mike, has anybody shot or printed any B&W film lately? This thread is pretty quiet... I just printed these three today:

"Dreaming about tomorrow"

(Olympus OM-1n, 135mm f/3.5 at f/5.6, Ilford Pan F at ISO32, 8x10in hand print on Ilford MG IV Multigrade)

"Contemplating Black Coffee"

(Olympus OM-1n, 24mm f/2.0 at f/4.0, Ilford FP4+, 5x7in hand print on Ilford MG IV Multigrade)

"Black Rose, Dirty Window"

(Mamiya RB67, 140mm f/4.5 Macro at f/4.5, Ilford HP5, 8x10in hand print on Ilford MG IV Multigrade)​

Technical note: I printed all of these through my new (to me) Schneider W.A. Componon 80mm f/5.6 enlarging lens, and what a superb lens this is. Very good clarity and contrast, necessitating less "artificial contrast" via stronger filters.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Apart from Mike, has anybody shot or printed any B&W film lately?

We owe you!

"Contemplating Black Coffee"

(Olympus OM-1n, 24mm f/2.0 at f/4.0, Ilford FP4+, 5x7in hand print on Ilford MG IV Multigrade)​

I particularly like this image. How did it happen?

Asher

 

[Dawid Loubser]

We owe you!

I'll keep you to that... I'm looking forward to seeing not just some B&W film from you guys, but wet prints also.

I particularly like this image. How did it happen?

Thank you Asher, this was just my wife and I (we had just wed about three months prior to this image) having some coffee at this old gas station that had been converted into a trendy little coffee shop. It was not a particularly happy time for us, we were quite broke, and her mother was hospitalised because of the Cancer (she has since passed away). It was quite unexpectedly cold, so she's wearing my too-big-for-her jersey.

You can see my "restoration project" 1963 Mercedes-Benz Fintail (not quite a complete car at this stage) standing outside behind her, which I had to get going prematurely because our daily car had developed problems, even though this car was not in an ideal state to use (sporadic overheating, expired license, etc). We were both also still suffering a bit from post-traumatic stress from being attacked in our home. I am happy to say, that in all respects we are in a much better "place" now.

I have developed a string liking for making spontaneous environmental portraits with the 24mm (or equivalent on medium format) focal length. It's such a sweet spot of (when perpendicular to a fairly centred subject) not distorting the human shape, but still capturing so much of the environment. It's also capable of surprisingly shallow depth of field when needed, though I closed down to f/4 for this shot to represent the environment (sign outside, the car(s)) but still slightly blurred.

This might sound very pretentious, but the experience with the OM-1 allowed me to fully pre-visualise and prepare for this image. I could guess exposure (this was an obvious "shady f/4" scenario, f/4.0 @ 1/125s @ ISO125) , set the camera's exposure and guess-focus all by feel while the camera was in my lap (I re-iterate that the control layout of this camera is second to none, it beats even the Leica M because of the shutter speed ring around the lens throat) and, when my "subject" least expected it, quickly take the shot after only having to fine-tune focus. I would save up and pay $5000 for this camera body (unchanged) with a Canon 5D-equivalent (even MkI is great) digital sensor in it, if Olympus made it. Instead they decided to forget Maitani's brilliance, and bring out plastic blobs like most of the other SLR manufacturers instead, and a mostly-boring lineup of (technically excellent) lenses. So, the film is worth it for me at this stage - at least the 6-stop-overexposed background retains (and differentiates between) tones this way.

But I digress. Looking forward to further contributions to this thread from the rest of you...

 

[Jim Galli]

Apart from Mike, has anybody shot or printed any B&W film lately? This thread is pretty quiet... I just printed these three today:

Still shooting quite a lot of film, but almost never 35mm, so I didn't know how it would fit in this thread. I'm really into soft focus / brute force film, so the large format is the way to achieve that. Here are 2 where I do the shot normally with a Goerz Dagor, then soft with a little Achromatic Meniscus I've found and installed in shutter. These are 4X5.

windows, hard

windows, soft​

Soft focus is an acquired taste. Like your first sip of coffee, you think to yourself, why would anyone subject themselves to this bug juice..........next thing you know, you're looking for the perfect beans to grind.

 

[Dawid Loubser]

Still shooting quite a lot of film, but almost never 35mm, so I didn't know how it would fit in this thread. I'm really into soft focus / brute force film, so the large format is the way to achieve that.

Jim, first off, half my posted shots are medium format, so your LF is more than welcome! Also your "acquired" taste in soft-focus lenses. Did you hand-print or scan these?

 

[Jim Galli]

Jim, first off, half my posted shots are medium format, so your LF is more than welcome! Also your "acquired" taste in soft-focus lenses. Did you hand-print or scan these?

These are scans for now. Printing with 4X5 is as easy as printing gets though as the defects are all shrunk by a factor of 15 - 20. 90% of any printing that gets done is 8X10 contact. That's where my heart is at. Also 5X7 and 6.5X8.5 in platinum. Super fun.

 

[Dawid Loubser]

Certainly Jim, it's a completely different world to carefully enlarging small negatives. That's what I love about (B&W) film, the true variety in processes imposed by different cameras. There are so many things to play with.

 

[Jim Galli]

OK, developed some 35mm B&W this afternoon, and here's a first shot;

girls in tree​

This was done with an interesting "sleeper" 35mm camera that is worthy of mention. It's a Yashica Electro 35 GSN with the 1.7 45mm Yashinon / Copal electro shutter built in. A serious camera for amateurs that wanted an upper scale fixed coupled rangefinder. Probably a stretch to call it a poor man's Leica, but the 1.7 45mm is awfully nice. About $35 on Ebay. I bought it because someone had given one to a neice of mine and it really felt and handled neat, so I was curious.

It's an aperture priority system which Copal was famous for. You pick the aperture according to what you want your picture to look like, the camera picks the leaf shutter speed which is stopless like a Nikon FE. It pretty well nailed every exposure, including this one which is difficult in any case. My developing was a little hot, but all in all, it's a neat little machine for the money.

The girls are mine. Galli's all.

 

[Jim Galli]

and another from the Electro.....

wall truth....​

I didn't record any settings. These are scans. I'm having fun with these. Film is good ol' PlusX, but developing regimen is interesting. I mix Dektol, 10 grams / 1 liter. Couple minute pre-wash, pour in the Dektol. Agitate 30 seconds. Walk away and do something else for the rest of 18 minutes. Basically it's an 18 minute stand with very dilute Dektol. Grainless Plus X.

 

[Jim Galli]

A couple more.......technically awful but the story is fun.

heather's face​

What's happening here on the Santa Monica pier is that my daughter Heather, and a friend have an ongoing joke. They each present the other with something tacky and tasteless for Christmas and the deal is that you have to leave it up for a year. So they try to out do each other of course. Heather came up with the idea of having one of these sidewalk artisans reproducing her face for $15 and that was her gift to her friend. He has to look at her for a year. We all got a lot of enjoyment out of this bit of wit.

heather's face ii​

I suppose one should not try to make traditional black and white pictures with the wee format in the brutal light. Ahhh, but it was fun afterall.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Jim,

Your stories are as fascinating as you pictures and odd lenses and cameras. Thanks for sharing the fun exchanges.

Asher

 

[Dawid Loubser]

Tried some Fomapan 100 this week-end

Hi All,

I tried some Fomapan 100 film (exposed at ISO64) for the first time last weekend. It's really cheap, and "different":

"Caught by a chain link fence"

(Olympus OM-1, Zuiko 90mm at f/2.0, Fomapan 100 @ ISO64, 8x10in analogue hand-print)

"Opposing elements"

(Olympus OM-1, Zuiko 250mm at f/2.0, Fomapan 100 @ ISO64, 8x10in analogue hand-print)​

What do you think? The film is a little bit grainy for such a low speed film (not really better than Ilford FP4+) but I do like the tonality. Anybody else make any analogue B&W images recently to share? This is such a wonderful medium.

As a side note, if you want "Leica-special" lenses without paying Leica prices, the OM Zuikos are the closest I've ever gotten. I am enjoying these tiny, solid-metal, superb lenses very much indeed...