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Mark Hampton

New member
hi hi,
I found an area about 20 miles away from me that I have found for a piece of work - at the moment I have about 12 images - I will just post 4 at the moment.

I have just got my 1st DSLR of any note and I am still getting used to the strange world of digital. The work is in B&W (as close to selenium and gold mixed as I can get at the moment / need to calibrate my monitor) – I have a few sketches of how i think these will develop – but I am open to suggestions and input.

The themes I am looking at as I am making the work are environmental pressure and the adaptation that this causes in subject – in this case – poor rocky soil – exposed hill side – animal grazing – no management of the area.

All images contain exif data.

twistedroortreelimbs.jpg


bushtreerocktree.jpg


bush-twistedroot-treetree.jpg


rockbushtreeharp.jpg

thanks in advance
 

Ken Tanaka

pro member
hi hi,

The themes I am looking at as I am making the work are environmental pressure and the adaptation that this causes in subject – in this case – poor rocky soil – exposed hill side – animal grazing – no management of the area.

Hello Mark,

First, I commend and salute you on using your camera to pursue a purposeful, premeditated conceptual theme. Snap-shooting is fun but using a camera as a real tool is perhaps the best path to learning the possibilities, the strengths, and the shortcomings of the photographic medium.

So keep clicking with a propulsive concept at every chance.

Now to the images at hand. I have to say that these images do not work toward your stated purpose. These apparently dead trees flirt with making evocative abstract compositions. Perhaps I'm just a city boy but they just don't suggest environmental damage. The applied digital toning only magnifies the message that these scenes are to be considered aesthically rather than as documentary. In fact, a viewer might be shocked to later learn that such forms are the result of anything bad.

Moving forward towards this project I offer the following suggestions.

First, realize that these dead trees create strong, seductive forms even in an inadvertent lens. The closer you get to them the more the frames take on an artful form, even if you've no such intention and even if your viewers can't spell "art".

To illustrate damage and environmental trouble you need to show CONTEXT. You need to somehow show that these dead trees represent a growing cancer in their landscape. Microscopic photography of, say, a tumor might be quite beautiful. But a portrait of the patient, showing this same tumor eating his face away would certainly be a stronger statement of malignant threat, eh?

Look at some works by photographers who have long and highly successful histories at showing such effects. Two come to mind, both of whom are highly recognized art-world photographers who also use carefully crafted landscape imagery to illustrate man crapping-up his world.

Look at works (books) by Robert Adams and Edward Burtynsky. These fellows' approaches are as different as day and night. But if you're genuinely trying to pursue the theme you claim here you will see some of the most powerful visual methods toward portraying your subject.

You could also do well to study back-issues of National Geographic. They often tackle such "environmental outrage" subjects with some of the best photojournalists in the world.

Good luck with your project.
 

Mark Hampton

New member
thanks for the input cody -

the casts will be addressed when I have calibrated - although there will always be a blue in there it may be on the heavy side at the moment .... off the top of my head I am 179/10 0 289/10 - will most likely squeeze the saturation on both colours, but I need to check them out in print to make an informed decision.
 

Mark Hampton

New member
Hello Mark,

First, I commend and salute you on using your camera to pursue a purposeful, premeditated conceptual theme. Snap-shooting is fun but using a camera as a real tool is perhaps the best path to learning the possibilities, the strengths, and the shortcomings of the photographic medium.

So keep clicking with a propulsive concept at every chance.

Now to the images at hand. I have to say that these images do not work toward your stated purpose. These apparently dead trees flirt with making evocative abstract compositions. Perhaps I'm just a city boy but they just don't suggest environmental damage.

Ken that’s good - they are not supposed to. I am interested how things adapt... and the changes in form this brings around... this applies to the pictures as well

The applied digital toning only magnifies the message that these scenes are to be considered aesthically rather than as documentary. In fact, a viewer might be shocked to later learn that such forms are the result of anything bad.

these are images that by their nature are not documentary.


First, realize that these dead trees create strong, seductive forms even in an inadvertent lens. The closer you get to them the more the frames take on an artful form, even if you've no such intention and even if your viewers can't spell "art".

Thomas Joshua Cooper taught me how to selenium tone, the edge of the frame is where it’s at / and breaking the edge will happen in these images..



I new when i posted i should not have mentioned the enviroment :(

btw Ken Robert Adam is also Scottish Map maker from around the 17th C which is ironic when you think about it.
 

Alain Briot

pro member
I concur with Ken regarding congratulating you on having decisiveness of purpose. However, purpose is only one aspect of success in photography. Just because you have an idea, does not mean this idea is going to come to fruition. You still need the necessary knowledge, and guidance, to bring your project to fruition.

At this time what we have are photographs showing a mass of branches and vegetation. I won't over-extend myself much by saying that such photographs could be taken by most people visiting this location, albeitedly with variations of framing and with the use of color most likely instead of B&W.

We need much more than this to find interest in these images. We need a focus on shapes and patterns, or on detail, or on contrast, or other. This is a busy world, and unless there is a strong reason to look at an image, we move on to the next, and more interesting (hopefully) set of images (or thread in a forum).
 

Ken Tanaka

pro member
Well, that'll (again) teach me to conserve my critical energy!

I really now have no idea what you're trying to accomplish visually, Mark. But good luck with whatever it is and enjoy your journey.
 

Mark Hampton

New member
I concur with Ken regarding congratulating you on having decisiveness of purpose. However, purpose is only one aspect of success in photography. Just because you have an idea, does not mean this idea is going to come to fruition. You still need the necessary knowledge, and guidance, to bring your project to fruition.

At this time what we have are photographs showing a mass of branches and vegetation. I won't over-extend myself much by saying that such photographs could be taken by most people visiting this location, albeitedly with variations of framing and with the use of color most likely instead of B&W.

We need much more than this to find interest in these images. We need a focus on shapes and patterns, or on detail, or on contrast, or other. This is a busy world, and unless there is a strong reason to look at an image, we move on to the next, and more interesting (hopefully) set of images (or thread in a forum).

thanks for the input... my work is not to balance things.. to make things nice... any person can with the will.. do that...

Interest is not a given but something found... I make.. not take... that is not semantics ...the fact you are not interested is fine..

you look for something that will not be in what I do.. this is not a capture .. this in this case is a made piece of work...

so why C&C - answer = I was wanting guidance in relation to tone / how can I make the same tonally (or different) range ... i was used to using tec pan 50 asa - exposing it at 32 and then printing with a grade 2 paper (OMG I WISH AGFA WAS STILL AROUND) then working with selenium and gold toners to finish of my work...

I can hand print so my work seems like diamonds speak ... this is what i need to learn .... with digital

if you cannot help..

hey chill - it just branches ..... the world has many bland landscape artists :)
 

Mark Hampton

New member
Well, that'll (again) teach me to conserve my critical energy!

I really now have no idea what you're trying to accomplish visually, Mark. But good luck with whatever it is and enjoy your journey.

Ken,

chill... I kent who you wanted me to look at and I was happy to be reminded of the people that my work has nothing to do with but still happy to be reminded of..

I have not emerged from the undergrowth of fine art photography history man..

I did find it strange how when you could you didnt mentioned the FOV... but hey commenting on any ones work is a hard thing...

I was trying to introduce myself in a gentle way.. I guess that’s fecked...

thanks for the input
 

Rachel Foster

New member
Mark, please don't tell people who try to help to "chill." I have to be honest, your responses to two accomplished, talented photographers who took the time to comment on your images offends me.
 

Mark Hampton

New member
I have to be honest, your responses to two accomplished, talented photographers who took the time to comment on your images offends me.

Ken did not read what I wrote and the other just followed as people do in forums ... MFG as you are doing... why would i bother if i offend you or not?

strange person...
 

Rachel Foster

New member
I don't know, Mark. Why are you here? I would like to see your images and read your feedback on the work of others, but if you don't want critique, don't waste people's time.
 

Mark Hampton

New member
In scotland its 1.04 - I will go to bed and sleep..

I was here for the questions i outlined - I guess I need to move to a tecky forum !!

huv a good sleep - if ur 5 hours behind the world is still turning !
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
In scotland its 1.04 - I will go to bed and sleep..

I was here for the questions i outlined - I guess I need to move to a tecky forum !!

huv a good sleep - if ur 5 hours behind the world is still turning !

Mark,

I understand your focus is technical. You sleep and I'll see if we can get some answers.

I'd love to see some of your selenium toned prints. That I think is the important facet of your story that separates you from most other folk we see. Making such photographs is a skill I personally admire.

So far, we have these collections of weather beaten roots and branches on a washed out hill. I gather this does not represent the best of your work. Certainly there's no sense of any environmental tragedy. A happenstance fire will get rid of the mess and the land will reform one way or another. In the grand scheme of things, the fate of this small area might not be important to any species, threatened or not!

So when I ask to see the prints, I want to wipe out the above pictures' distraction to your purely technical question. As has been said, art could be made of it, but right now it lacks any draw to our attention. So let's put these digital images aside.

By showing your own best work, we can recalibrate our ideas and reset attitudes based on where your strengths lie. I have no doubt that we could find folk that print with modern inks to give the effect of selenium-gold toned classically made prints. But for now, I personally am more eager to see scans of the real stuff!

Asher

addendum: I do have this nagging question. If you are, indeed, able to make fine prints in a way your are skilled and competent to express yourself well, why change techniques? After all, such fine handy work is sold and collected and only needs to be produce in relatively small editions! What makes it so attractive to do change your workflow?
 
Last edited:
I don't know, Mark. Why are you here? I would like to see your images and read your feedback on the work of others, but if you don't want critique, don't waste people's time.

I have to agree on this about wasting others time.
......

If you want to be rude and not comment on someones touch up fine, I do not care.
I also find a pure B&W photo more appealing than some fake golden glow work.
What I don't think what was mentioned was all your photo's seemed to lacking the focus.
I don't care who you studied under, your work should reflect you, find your own style.

Mark Hampton said:
I was wanting guidance in relation to tone / how can I make the same tonally (or different) range ... i was used to using tec pan 50 asa - exposing it at 32 and then printing with a grade 2 paper (OMG I WISH AGFA WAS STILL AROUND) then working with selenium and gold toners to finish of my work...
Are you forgetting this this is digital and not on PAPER If you really want guidance for paper prints then go and find an old darkroom master to ask.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
"Made" v. "Captured" or "Taken"

thanks for the input... my work is not to balance things.. to make things nice... any person can with the will.. do that...

Interest is not a given but something found... I make.. not take... that is not semantics ...the fact you are not interested is fine..

you look for something that will not be in what I do.. this is not a capture .. this in this case is a made piece of work...

Mark,

I take exception to your approach to Alain's use of the word "take"**. It's perfectly reasonable for one to say that we all just take a picture. That's a common easily understood term. One faces the tangle of ruined branches and presses the shutter. This takes the light coming from the subject you have chosen and it is recorded in some manner by the electronics. That's what we mean by "taken"! Making pictures is what I do. I study a location, visit it many times and still take images from various positions and angles. I then make drawings of how the image might be and then what will be included and excluded. I now control the lighting and bring in the subjects and define their positions. Then I expose in a particular way, process in a defined sequence for various characteristics I have intended from the start. I work on every line, texture and shadow. At the very end, when it's a completed image, I can say I made that image. Otherwise, just pressing the shutter is taking the image.

In general, just making global alterations are not going to alter the fact that the image has only the minimum of craft in it beyond the framing and that is not undervalued.

From what you have shown, (and that's all we can judge), the images you have here are rather flat, have no evident distinguishing pattern and no allocation of interest, love or dedication to particular forms. Unless "disorder" itself is a theme, I see no point. What artistic choices have been made? In any case, even in "disorder", all items being the same level in importance creates a single plane of order and is too bland to hold interest. So I cannot find either worth or work that would allow one to say the picture has been "made" as opposed to"captured" or "taken". I say this since there might indeed be merit in distinguishing the product of merely releasing a shutter on a modern, almost perfectly automatic DSLR and the craft in materializing some idea in a masterful way so that it becomes a new living being with breath in it's lungs, to survive separately from the photographer. The prints of Edward Weston, for example, are such works of art and live beyond him. They were guided by strongly formulated personal and original ideas and formed into physical existence by his tireless persistence, trials and errors and progressive mastery, until he has perfectly built pictures. So his pictures were indeed made.

This is the one standard I use for works that are claimed to be anything other than snapped.

I ask myself the following question, "To what extent is the image delivered the end product of seeing with the mind and expressing that through the camera and darkroom craft, choosing between a myriad of alternatives, until the likeness of the physical form resonates with the artists premonition of how it might exist." If we build our photographs in this way, they are made. Otherwise, we are mostly just "clickers"! Oh yes, I grant that we can claim a tad of sophistication and insight, but these do not necessarily elevate our snaps to become photographs of lasting worth.

Of course there is a continuum, where at one end we are the snap shooter and the other extreme we might aspire to be the talented disciplined photographer who does, at times, really "make" a picture.

Of course, you might now post a picture of your Selenium-gold toned photographs and humble me!

Asher


**It so happens that both Alain and Ken are remarkably capable photographers and eloquent teachers with more patience than I possess. My experience has been that they have a lot to offer, even to accomplished photographers as long as one is open to new ideas. BTW, one can argue openness to new experience is a characteristic hallmark of the artist, so it may be worth consideration.
 

Alain Briot

pro member
In art, critiques are best answered with great work rather than with defensive arguments. While the former will silence your critics, the later will cause them to wonder about your artistic abilities.
 

Mark Hampton

New member
I have to agree on this about wasting others time.
......

If you want to be rude and not comment on someones touch up fine, I do not care.
I also find a pure B&W photo more appealing than some fake golden glow work.
What I don't think what was mentioned was all your photo's seemed to lacking the focus.
I don't care who you studied under, your work should reflect you, find your own style.


Are you forgetting this this is digital and not on PAPER If you really want guidance for paper prints then go and find an old darkroom master to ask.

cody - got a bit of a battering and didn't thank you for the edit ... thanks –
by manner of an apology find below my favourite picture by Alfred Stieglitz

Stieglitz-Steerage291.jpg
The Steerage 1907 - always make me smile


In relation to B&W - all types are as fake and always have been... images are representations mediated through the technology and the choices of the maker... I am not searching for a pure form of representation of the place or the scene (I think if I was I would look at holographic technology)....

We will not agree on warm or cold images. That’s fine.

as for lacking focus ... I have not sharpened them ... is that what you meant ? or the choice I made when I set the aperture? or the conceptual frame work?

my work does reflect my own approach to picture making this is informed by those who taught me and the work I have looked at, the books I have read and the life I live. I approach work in a different manner to those who taught me – I am not a modernist – I also do not follow the “British tradition of landscape” – I do not work in the f64 manner – I am not a vista fan boy - or even a conceptual artist but I do love the above work.

Cody i am more interested in the print than an image on screen - I don’t need taught how to print old school - I need help getting the tones and the values I want to achieve in digital form back onto print.
 

Mark Hampton

New member
In art, critiques are best answered with great work rather than with defensive arguments. While the former will silence your critics, the later will cause them to wonder about your artistic abilities.

Alan - I thought a critique was a discussion – in reality they sometimes lead to physical fights - it’s all good and teaches us to think in a deaper manner about what we are making.

I don’t want to silence people and I am secure in my own abilities
 

Rachel Foster

New member
Mark, I am no where near as knowledgeable as most of the members here. Would you mind articulating what your particular style and goals are?

It's perfectly fine if you don't want to spend the time and energy doing this, but I am interested.
 

Mark Hampton

New member
Mark,

I understand your focus is technical. You sleep and I'll see if we can get some answers.

I'd love to see some of your selenium toned prints. That I think is the important facet of your story that separates you from most other folk we see. Making such photographs is a skill I personally admire.

So far, we have these collections of weather beaten roots and branches on a washed out hill. I gather this does not represent the best of your work. Certainly there's no sense of any environmental tragedy. A happenstance fire will get rid of the mess and the land will reform one way or another. In the grand scheme of things, the fate of this small area might not be important to any species, threatened or not!

So when I ask to see the prints, I want to wipe out the above pictures' distraction to your purely technical question. As has been said, art could be made of it, but right now it lacks any draw to our attention. So let's put these digital images aside.

By showing your own best work, we can recalibrate our ideas and reset attitudes based on where your strengths lie. I have no doubt that we could find folk that print with modern inks to give the effect of selenium-gold toned classically made prints. But for now, I personally am more eager to see scans of the real stuff!

Asher

addendum: I do have this nagging question. If you are, indeed, able to make fine prints in a way your are skilled and competent to express yourself well, why change techniques? After all, such fine handy work is sold and collected and only needs to be produce in relatively small editions! What makes it so attractive to do change your workflow?

In relation to the work posted - that’s where I am at - that is what I am working on - so I will not set it aside - I am back there this evening and reworking sketches this afternoon

In relation to my hand prints - I didn’t do editions - I made and finished one picture and that was it. These are in the hands of private individuals. I will get some scanned and post them - but the scan is not the print and the screen is not the print.

There a couple a reasons as to why I no longer work in that way, Time being the most relevant one. New family / work etc. Faculties are few in Perth and I have no space for a darkroom. Saying that if a piece of work demands hand printing I will find away to work.

I get this is the internet - I could just be some mentalist using google and wilki to lie about who I am what I have done and what I am working on to annoy a forum of photographers but I am not.

here is a full processed image - It may help understand where I am going with the work I posted.

its in colour -

Walk-composit2.jpg
 

Mark Hampton

New member
Mark, I am no where near as knowledgeable as most of the members here. Would you mind articulating what your particular style and goals are?

It's perfectly fine if you don't want to spend the time and energy doing this, but I am interested.

Rachel,

I don’t have a particular style more a vocabulary or an approach to making work

image above "walk" - whether you like it or not uses 35mm film / photoshop / ink / wax / digital / print - it is a photograph of work that becomes the work - the thing gets destroyed and only the image remains.

I make choices / find new avenues through that process - here is a sketch (further down the line of how one of the images posted at the start are shaping up.


sixflat1.jpg

when I went out to make these images - I new I would split the frame so I had that in mind from the outset - this break in the image was originally going to be a black or white band - but I found when working the image I liked the Jar of the two sides better / it breaks the flow when you read it. the scratches do the same - when this is large and you stand back the image underneath will be clearer - when you move closer to look for the detail - the scratches make this difficult - there may be a layer of wax to contend with on top - the image may nearly vanish -

I am still working out if I need to really scratch the canvas print or not - I will have to get a small working one made and check out the surface and check how it responds to abrasion.
then the wax - I have some ideas but it really is an active process so you can pre plan where it goes - how to darken and lighten areas but this will change when I do it.
This evening I will be out remaking the images – working from the sketching and also taking into account what has been said.
 

Mark Hampton

New member
Mark,

Of course, you might now post a picture of your Selenium-gold toned photographs and humble me!

Asher


**It so happens that both Alain and Ken are remarkably capable photographers and eloquent teachers with more patience than I possess. My experience has been that they have a lot to offer, even to accomplished photographers as long as one is open to new ideas. BTW, one can argue openness to new experience is a characteristic hallmark of the artist, so it may be worth consideration.

1st have to thank you all (and apologise for being a twat)

Tonight I went up stairs into my loft and found some work that I had not seen for 10 years or so... and I really enjoyed looking at my prints - mostly just working prints but a couple that I had kept because I wanted them...

I will scan some when I borrow a scanner - and pop them on the end of this thread

no they will not humble you asher - or blow the internet apart - or rock anyones world. They do however show an inquiring mind and they still manage to shine.

how the feck do you scan images ?
 
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