Strips of 120 on Film Scanners

[Albert Ramos]

I'm on the lookout for a scanner for my 120 film and my budget limits me to the Epson Perfection V500 Photo, the Canon CanoScan 8800F and the HP ScanJet G4050. Some of you who have tried using them might be able to help me with my questions.

The spec sheets for those scanners indicate that the Epson transparency unit will accomodate a "6x12 medium format film." That would be 2 frames of 6x6, but my 6x6 negatives are cut into strips of 4 frames each. Does that mean I need to cut my existing negatives into strips of 2 frames each in order to use the Epson transparency unit? Or will it somehow accomodate the entire strip but scan just the field within the 6x12 area? I'm not inclined to divide my strips in half just to get them into the scanner.

The HP spec sheet indicates that the transparency adapter will accomodate "2 medium format frames." I guess that would mean the same thing as the Epson.

The Canon sounds more promising in that it indicates a "maximum film size for 120mm of 22cm x 6cm." I guess that would accomodate my 4-frame strip of 6x6 negatives.

As for my other MF film, my 6x4.5 negatives are cut into strips of 5 frames each and my 6x7 into 3 frames each so I have no idea how the Epson and HP will treat them.

Any ideas from those who have tried using them?

 

[Doug Fisher]

Forget HP in general. The Epson and Canon are about the same in terms of optical ability. The standard EpsonScan software is much better than the Canon software. The Epson holder would require you to scan 2 frames and then you would need to flip the film. Are you sure the Canon can scan all four frames plus the gap space? Just double check.

Good luck on your decision.

Doug

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

I don't think neither Canon nor Epson will be able to scan all 4 6x6 negatives in one go, uncut (4 in a row) and including the gaps.

Regarding the holder, you can scan two and flip for the other two just like Doug said.
Or you can create your own custom holder with cardboard and sticky tape to attach the film onto the frame. You can even experiment with glass plates to hold the film flat, but it may introduce Newton rings. Maybe Murray Foote shall chime in if he reads this, he knows a thing or two about MF/LF scanning.

HTH,

Cheers,

 

[Albert Ramos]

Are you sure the Canon can scan all four frames plus the gap space? Just double check.

Doug

I don't think neither Canon nor Epson will be able to scan all 4 6x6 negatives in one go, uncut (4 in a row) and including the gaps.

No, I'm not sure the Canon can scan all four frames in one go. I actually haven't seen the unit physically, I just based that assumption on the specs in their website that says "22cm x 6 Film Strip (120 Roll Film)" so I thought it could accomodate 4 frames. In hindsight, though, 6cm x 4 would be 24cm plus the gaps, so obviously it won't fit, duh!

So with the Canon and Epson left as the choices, and as you said they are pretty much the same in terms of optical ability, it looks to me like the Epson would be a nice pick because of ICE. I don't really know how good Canon's version of dust removal is.

I have heard of plenty of bad reviews with the HP and the only attraction it had for me was the ability to scan 4x5 transparencies. Truth be told, however, I don't have that format right now but having this newly rekindled love affair with film makes jumping into LF a real possibility for me in the future.

Thanks guys!

 

[Albert Ramos]

Or you can create your own custom holder with cardboard and sticky tape to attach the film onto the frame. You can even experiment with glass plates to hold the film flat, but it may introduce Newton rings.

Oh, so you mean I don't actually have to use the included film holders to scan the negs? Does that mean it can also be used to scan 4x5 film? Or 6x9? Or any size of film, as long as the negative or transparency fits within the glass of the scanner?

Well, regarding 6x9 (or 6x8 for that matter), it will fit in the 120 strip holder so that would be fine, right?

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Oh, so you mean I don't actually have to use the included film holders to scan the negs? Does that mean it can also be used to scan 4x5 film? Or 6x9?

Yes, yes and yes. The only function of the film holder is to lift the film surface from the glass of the scanner. It also holds the film flat to an extent.

Or any size of film, as long as the negative or transparency fits within the glass of the scanner?

No, the scan area is limited by the driver software, not by the physical size of the scanner's glas.
This is usually around 20x25 cm. This has to start at a certain 0 coordinate on the scanner's surface. The scanners usually come with a film guide to align the sheet film at this position.

Well, regarding 6x9 (or 6x8 for that matter), it will fit in the 120 strip holder so that would be fine, right?

Yes indeed

Cheers,

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

...So with the Canon and Epson left as the choices, and as you said they are pretty much the same in terms of optical ability, it looks to me like the Epson would be a nice pick because of ICE. I don't really know how good Canon's version of dust removal is.

Go with the Epson. The area of transparency scanning for Canon 8800F is much narrower than the Epson. Epson has more potential to scan odd sized sheet film incl LF.

Cheers,

 

[Albert Ramos]

One last question (it's about 35mm now):

If my 35mm slides are unmounted and in strips (just like color negatives), does the Epson scanner give me an option of choosing whether I'm scanning positives or negatives? What I mean is, does it not default to positive when I put slide mounts and negative when I put film strips in the carriers? (Honestly speaking, though, it sounds to me like it won't know what type of carrier I actually inserted)

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

One last question (it's about 35mm now):

If my 35mm slides are unmounted and in strips (just like color negatives), does the Epson scanner give me an option of choosing whether I'm scanning positives or negatives? What I mean is, does it not default to positive when I put slide mounts and negative when I put film strips in the carriers? (Honestly speaking, though, it sounds to me like it won't know what type of carrier I actually inserted)

No, it won't know but in the driver software you can indicate which mount you are using. It then defaults to negative or positive. I am pretty certain that you can then change the type manually. If not, you can always use another software such as the VueScan, which makes this and much more options possible.

HTH,

Cheers,

 

[Albert Ramos]

Wow! Thanks a lot Cem and Doug! Those are really very valuable stuff you gave! I'll post more questions as soon as I encounter them!

 

[Albert Ramos]

Yes, yes and yes. The only function of the film holder is to lift the film surface from the glass of the scanner. It also holds the film flat to an extent.

Let me just go back to this thread. Cem, can you suggest a nice material and procedure for fabricating a makeshift film holder for the Epson V500?

 

[Jeff Donovan]

It comes with a film holder, why would you want to make one? You can also find holders made by third-parties online.

I haven't scanned 120 but I just got the V500 and am pleased with the results. Very easy to use, the software is simple and easily customizable and the quality is excellent.

 

[Albert Ramos]

It comes with a film holder, why would you want to make one? You can also find holders made by third-parties online.

I asked that because early on in the thread we were talking about the different formats of 120 film and the possibility of scanning irregularly-sized negs. Yeah, I was able to find those third-party holders online, thanks!

 

[philip gatward]

You might want to try Vuescan software by Ed Hamrick.

I have a Canon 9900f and could never get it to work properly until I changed to this software. And the quality is much better! Does a fantastic job on neg scanning.

Philip

 

[Kurt Schwabe]

Film Scanners and Digital ICE Technology

I too am considering the Epson V500. However I have a question regarding the digital ICE technology. I was told that this technology degrades the image quality and really only removes scratches and dust by slightly blurring that part of the image - or even the whole image. Is this true? How does this technology work?

 

[Martin Kuivenhoven]

In the meantime a Canon 8800F sits on my desk and the film holder seems perfectly made for a strip of 6x .. It is indeed 22 cm's. And the manual shows a picture with 1,2,3 negatives and not four. So for other readers this may be of interest.

The filmholder actually flips open and holds the film flat. A plastic film retainer sheet is provided to support the film and prevent curling if fewer frames are used. The 35mm format has the same principle.

For me comming from an Epson 2450 the Canon works a lot easier.

Canon "ICE" is called FARE 3. I need some more hours with this scanner to see of FARE degrades the picture quality. So far the results are promising.

Martin

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I too am considering the Epson V500. However I have a question regarding the digital ICE technology. I was told that this technology degrades the image quality and really only removes scratches and dust by slightly blurring that part of the image - or even the whole image. Is this true? How does this technology work?

Digital ICE works very well ! No simple blurring, but a sophisticated in-painting technique. The areas that need this treatment are determined by calculating the difference between visible light transparency and IR transparency. The dyes used in color film emulsions are transparent to IR, not to visible light (hence the color). Dust and scratches usually have a markedly different IR transparency compared to the surrounding areas.

Black and White film based on silver won't react well to ICE, because silver is opaque for IR. Chromogenic Black and White film works fine, just like other color film. Kodachrome film with residual silver also causes problems.

Bart