The Blue Marble!

[Jerome Marot]

Jerome,

The driving part of this discussion is predicated on a presumed common impressions, belief and understanding that:

• The Photograph of the Blue Marble is a simple metaphor that powerfully evokes a sense of wonderment and a realization of our fragility, accountability and responsibility for the state of this biosphere.
  
• There are great risks in unfettered damage to rivers, land, air and their resources.
  
• The planet does not have infinite ability to protect and heal itself.
  
• Science and rational discourse offers a way of enriching our lives and protecting our precious heritage of this unique planet.
  
• Closed minds and dogmatic rejection of science, hinders our chances of making life on this fragile planet sustainable.
  
• Recent history shows minds can be repopulated with more civilized memes but we are not at all skilled in finding peaceful ways of doing that effectively on a wide scale.

If we look around the world, doubtless the blocked-minded state of societies will be discovered widespread. Studying the advances in thinking in West Germany, especially, made in the post-war years would be insightful. In no nation in modern times has such a convincingly deep soul-searching mass change occurred.

I would love to see a comparison with the "guides to thought" in France and Belgium, (which were on the victor's side) or Austria, (which still claims "victim" status since World War II). Did they evolve too or are they actually stuck with the memes that were present at the turn of the 20th Century. I suspect that there has been some progress but would hazard a guess that no one advanced as much as the German people, especially from the West. (The Eastern part of Germany is too far off my experience that I have no opinion of it. They were not vanquished and then liberated, but rather vanquished and raped until fatigue set in.)

If the economy in the USA were to improve substantially, then weakening of fear-based cohesion of the right wing might allow the folk to be educated and less xenophobic and less driven to convert everyone else and join their path to salvation.

So, how do you view my postulate of the common existence of bubbles of delusion and dogma outside of the USA? Do you agree that the Germans are transformed compared to say the Austrians or the French perhaps?

Asher

Asher, this is so wrong that I don't know how to start. In a different thread, you suggested that some things are best discussed around a bottle of good wine. I'll offer the wine (or tea for the members whose religion does not allow alcoholic beverages... strange for a culture who discovered how to distillate the stuff as the name starting with "al" shows... but I digress). I'll just say that, roughly, the average German produces as much carbon dioxide as the average French or Austrian.

 

[Asher Kelman]

I am but an ' utterly Muslim ' nomad from the desert Asher. Far be it that I be versed in the

nuances of the English language. Sorry cannot help you there.

Well, I'll make it easy, this utterly Jewish guy from an overcrowded home in London will step back and remove the unneeded complexity from my argument. Islamization of Kosovo took over a hundred years and is, perhaps not such a good example anyway. By utter, I mean that the conversions were not superficial, as in the mass forced conversions of Jews to Catholicism in the 500 year long Spanish and Portuguese Inquisitions, where of the Conversos, more steadfast Marranos practiced their Judaism, (albeit sometimes diluted), in secret. So we can leave out reference to any Islamization of Christians in this discussion of changing the sets of ideas which control our behavior.

Asher

 

[fahim mohammed]

Alcohol nothing to do with Al-Kuhl.

The Arabic word is Al- Kuhl. Kuhl is a fine powder used by women in the east ( inc. India ) as a

makeup for their eyes. But the commonly referred and understood word ' Alcohol' migrated into

the English Language and somehow took on a different meaning.

I do not consume alcohol. But my wife does use Kuhl once in a while for her eyes.

So as not be misunderstood, she also uses products from Madame Coco amongst others.

But never consumes alcohol.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Asher, this is so wrong that I don't know how to start. I

Jerome,

At least, you might recognize that on a socially moral plane, the Germans have, on the whole, transformed from a xenophobic society to one that is decidedly more tolerant of, protective and even respectful of diversity, (despite the few but well publicized recent exceptions we all might despair about).

In a different thread, you suggested that some things are best discussed around a bottle of good wine. I'll offer the wine (or tea for the members whose religion does not allow alcoholic beverages... strange for a culture who discovered how to distillate the stuff as the name starting with "al" shows... but I digress).

We can do that. How far are you from Paris? I'm returning this summer, hopefully for another shoot. It would be wonderful to see you and yes, tea, wine or grapefruit juice are all possible!

I'll just say that, roughly, the average German produces as much carbon dioxide as the average French or Austrian.

As to carbon footprint, hardly any nation has tackled this effectively and robustly! However, as a basic start, the essential worth and humanity of other people's children is a required starting point for all discussion of any changes in the way we consume resources. Otherwise "their" children will breathe the soot we trade off for our shiny cars, lattes and pantyhose, LOL

Asher

 

[Jerome Marot]

Alcohol nothing to do with Al-Kuhl.

The Arabic word is Al- Kuhl. Kuhl is a fine powder used by women in the east ( inc. India ) as a makeup for their eyes. But the commonly referred and understood word ' Alcohol' migrated into the English Language and somehow took on a different meaning.

The distillation of alcohol was discovered by Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi in Persia, I hope we will agree on that part. As to the origin of the word, I read that the word Al-Kuhl (first meaning a fine powder used as make-up and called Kohl in modern English) came to be also used to mean "the best, the essence of things" because of the fineness of the powder. Because distillation also extracts "the essence of wine", the name Al-Kuhl was used to describe it. The word took that different meaning before migrating into european languages, which explains why all these languages use the same word.

 

[Jerome Marot]

Jerome,

At least, you might recognize that on a socially moral plane, the Germans have, on the whole, transformed from a xenophobic society to one that is decidedly more tolerant of, protective and even respectful of diversity, (despite the few but well publicized recent exceptions we all might despair about).

Certainly, but this was not the question. The question was about the prevalence of scientific, rational thinking. And on that point, your theory is in error, for example because:
-that prevalence or not was shaped with history which has nothing to do with WW2
-countries like Germany are considerably more diverse than one would think.

We can do that. How far are you from Paris? I'm returning this summer, hopefully for another shoot. It would be wonderful to see you and yes, tea, wine or grapefruit juice are all possible!

I like grapefruit juice. How far I will be from Paris depends on the time in summer.

 

[fahim mohammed]

The distillation of alcohol was discovered by Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi in Persia, I hope we will agree on that part. As to the origin of the word, I read that the word Al-Kuhl (first meaning a fine powder used as make-up and called Kohl in modern English) came to be also used to mean "the best, the essence of things" because of the fineness of the powder. Because distillation also extracts "the essence of wine", the name Al-Kuhl was used to describe it. The word took that different meaning before migrating into european languages, which explains why all these languages use the same word.

Maybe or maybe not. Jabir bin Hayyan also comes to mind in this context.

That the ' Muslims ' made significant contributions to chemistry ( amongst other scientific ) fields

is not under discussion.

The etymology of the word ' Alcohol ' is. As I previously stated, I do not know how it originated

and it is not, t in Arabic, at least anything to with ' Al' ' Kuhl '.

In any case, the Al- Kuhl and the ' alcohol ' of english as used today are unrelated.

The making and consumption of intoxicating drinks predates the Islamic era. Consumption of

alcohol is prohibited in Islam, in all forms brewed, stirred or distilled.

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

That the ' Muslims ' made significant contributions to chemistry ( amongst other scientific ) fields is not under discussion.

Hi Fahim,

I'm sorry, I don't think that being a 'Muslim' (or not) is all that beneficial/relevant for scientific progress. If it were then we'd e.g. have many more Nobel prize winners who adhere to the Islamic religion. In fact, one might postulate that dogmas, religious or otherwise, stifle progress. It was more likely the exchange of thought and 'out-of-the-box' visions that produced a healthy climate for new ideas. And having a visionary or two in one's circles also helps.

But let's not have religion spoil the fun exchange of views about our doomed species. Insects will rule long after the demise of humans ...

Cheers,
Bart

 

[fahim mohammed]

Hi Fahim,

I'm sorry, I don't think that being a 'Muslim' (or not) is all that beneficial/relevant for scientific progress. If it were then we'd e.g. have many more Nobel price winners who adhere to the Islamic religion. In fact, one might postulate that dogmas, religious or otherwise, stifle progress. It was more likely the exchange of thought and 'out-of-the-box' visions that produced a healthy climate for new ideas. And having a visionary or two in one's circles also helps.

But let's not have religion spoil the fun exchange of views about our doomed species. Insects will rule long after the demise of humans ...

Cheers,
Bart

Hello Bart.

Nothing to be sorry about saying what you really think.

I shall not comment on your reference to the Nobel prize. We know how, why and to whom they might be given. I mention it only, since you brought it up.

I did not bring religion into this discussion. Neither did I refer derogatorily or otherwise to

followers of any faith.

My comment, which you refer to and as you might have read, is in response to Jerome's mention

of ' Al ' in alcohol and the ensuing comments, including, the distillation processes in that context.


Instead of directing your post to the person who introduced religion, the Bible and

Muslims in the first instance to this discussion.

You choose to single me out and infer that I am the one to spoil the ' fun '.

I wonder why?

 

[Jerome Marot]

I don't think that being a 'Muslim' (or not) is all that beneficial/relevant for scientific progress.

Nobody said so. It was just written that, at some point in time, major contributions to scientific progress happened in what was then the muslim world. This is actually a generally undisputed historical fact.

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Instead of directing your post to the person who introduced religion, the Bible and Muslims in the first instance to this discussion.

Hi Fahim,

Indeed it was Asher who mentioned dogma's, religiously inspired or otherwise, as one of several brakes on insightful progress. I agree that rational thinking stops where dogma's start. I didn't feel the need to repeat that, as I think it's selfevident.

Asher also referenced Baruch de Spinoza (born in Amsterdam), one of the people at the foundation of "the Enlightenment". The fact that he was raised in a Dutch Jewish evironment, may only be relevant due to him being expelled from that community because of his critical views about dogmas. His publications were even put on the Roman Catholic church's list of "Forbidden Books".

So the relevance of religion was brought into the mix as one of several factors that stifle progress.

I'll leave Asher's interpretation of the Kosovo situation as his.

You choose to single me out and infer that I am the one to spoil the ' fun '.
I wonder why?

Your remark in the context of contributions to chemistry linked to 'Muslims' was interpreted, by me, to suggest something else. Hence my reaction. No-singling out, just a reaction to a remark. Maybe with a subconscious hope of being proven wrong (afterall what do I know about Islam?) that there indeed is something positive (in the sense of scientific progress) that some religion could bring to the saving of the planet. Alcohol it ain't!

BTW, I thought I might spoil the fun, not you.

Cheers,
Bart

 

[Jerome Marot]

I wonder why?

Probably simply because of all what is written in this thread that sentence was the only one which could be misconstructed as meaning that the progress were made because of Islam.

I am answering a question which was not asked to me because I wanted to say that my language in this thread is sometimes a bit convoluted because I take care to avoid similar misconstructions. It is not always easy.


(Edit. To Bart: our posts crossed...)

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Probably simply because of all what is written in this thread that sentence was the only one which could be misconstructed as meaning that the progress were made because of Islam.

I am answering a question which was not asked to me because I wanted to say that my language in this thread is sometimes a bit convoluted because I take care to avoid similar misconstructions. It is not always easy.


(Edit. To Bart: our posts crossed...)

Hi Jerome,

No problem. You've correctly interpreted the trigger for my reaction. While I have nothing against religions as such, I at the same time do not see them as bringing scientific progress, on the contrary.

Cheers,
Bart

 

[fahim mohammed]

Bart, what Jerome and me talked about refers to

the side discussion of the distillation of tea! Jerome and I both digressed.

Maybe you know more about Islam than you let on

Take care and kindest regards.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Fahim,

Indeed it was Asher who mentioned dogma's, religiously inspired or otherwise, as one of several brakes on insightful progress. I agree that rational thinking stops where dogma's start. I didn't feel the need to repeat that, as I think it's selfevident.

Asher also referenced Baruch de Spinoza (born in Amsterdam), one of the people at the foundation of "the Enlightenment". The fact that he was raised in a Dutch Jewish evironment, may only be relevant due to him being expelled from that community because of his critical views about dogmas. His publications were even put on the Roman Catholic church's list of "Forbidden Books".

So the relevance of religion was brought into the mix as one of several factors that stifle progress.

Thanks Bart for this!

Personally, I was brought up with the idea that Spinoza was a man to be ignored as he was contrary to teachings of the Torah. To my surprise as I caught up with the origins of the restart of rational thinking, unfettered by dogma, (where Aristotle left off, LOL), to find that Spinoza's writings were one of the keys to unlocking understanding the gifts of this world.

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

I'll leave Asher's interpretation of the Kosovo situation as his.

Fahim,

As I conceded the Kosovo switch of dogmas embedded in the inhabitants brains occurred slowly over 100 years, was not such a good example. Still the sense of it is practical. With the survival advantages of education, opportunity, advances, influence and political leverage being with the Turkish Empire and culture, Christian doctrine was gradually, but permanently replaced by Islamic culture.

This replacement was not 100% successful in all villages and towns, but changed the dogma from which the world was viewed and hence perceived. In all matters, new information was then filtered through this set of fixed conditions.

I did not give a value, good or bad to the change in the population of fixed ideas in the brains of the folk altered this way. Just that the change was very remarkable, significant and lasts centuries, even until now!

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Fahim,

Indeed it was Asher who mentioned dogma's, religiously inspired or otherwise, as one of several brakes on insightful progress. I agree that rational thinking stops where dogma's start. I didn't feel the need to repeat that, as I think it's selfevident.

Bart,

The self-evidence is ignored, sometimes, even by the best scientists. An example is quite specific to this, The Central Dogma of Molecular Biology". Like most dogmas, this was meant an insightful start to how we behave and think. I'll give 2 examples of where we, as scientists went awfully wrong. Then I'll discuss how the American public cannot be fully protected from 2 deadly and painful cancers because of community, (Christian) dogma on chastity being used to oppose this amazing plife-saving progress.

1. The Central Dogma of Molecular Biology: This dogma rules that genetic coding went one way only: DNA codes for RNA and RNA coded for proteins. To our surprise, it was found that RNA could be the genetic master too.

2. The Dogma that Herpes causes Cancer of the Cervix: In the study of the causes of Cancer of the Cervix, a dogma arose that it was caused by Herpes Simplex Virus, Type II. The logic seemed internally self-consistent, just like the teachings of Mormonism, Buddha or the Catholic Church. However, outside of this work, studies of human papilloma virus slowly bipassed this scholarship and exposed it's misguided mission. The dogma has blinded thousands of scientists. Who knows how much money was wasted by this one track dogmatic thought, perhaps even up to $20 million or more. Only the utterly surprising and persistently free-thinking work of the epidemiologists and virologists working with HPV, allowed the discovery of the cause and now the almost complete prevention of Cerivix Cancer! That shocked me so much. How could we be so intoxicated with the Herpes as cause of Cervix cancer dogma that we failed to open our eyes and minds fully?

Well, thank goodness there were others quietly working on the right track. What's great about the fundamental training of scientists, an unlike religions, we can turn on a dime, leave behind dogma that does not work and celebrate new knowledge. So a multitude of scientists switched overnight to the new belief that human papilloma virus were worth studying further!

The bonus was the finding that HPV also is responsibly for many head and neck cancers too. So immunizing children against HPV can prevent these horrible and painful fatal diseases.

3. The Dogma that only virginity and fidelity should be used to protect against pregnancy and the spread of diseases transmitted in whole or part by sexual union. Now we get back to serious dogma! In the USA, at least, right wing Christian groups lead campaigns against HPV vaccination since it would encourage acts inconsistent with their own dogma of faith. The facts are that ~70 of those males who pledge to be virgins until married, do in fact later admit to failing. So in practice, virginity not a social solution to preventing such diseases.

We could make virginity a requirement for all jobs and advancement or kill everyone with HPV and that would end cervical cancer!

However the easiest solution is vaccination. So why not allow it? A vaccination against HPV shouldn't impede cultural behavior where loving and respected parents set a good example and teach kids their values. Still, we have to face the fact the vaccination against HPV has been severely slowed by oppostion based on religious dogma.

As a result, at present, preventable scourges of our society cannot be stopped in their tracks.

The future for acceptance of Science in the USA: As for the future, a vast majority of religious schools in the USA teach that science is not to be trusted and that evolution, and hence the ideas buttressing it, are wrong. With at dogma permanently implanted into millions of minds and then transferred to the next generation too, how can we make progress in science at the pace untethered rational thought would allow?

So with this human problem, one that clearly effects quality of life of our society at a very personal level, dogma can be seen as having slowed discovery of a solution and now blocks the implementation of it!

So Bart you are so right: At the edges of dogma is where our progress, in how we live and use our gifts of rational thinking, can be diverted and blocked.

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

So what has this to do with photography?

It's my belief that we hold up a lantern to our world. Then self interest and compassion might open our minds and we will all appreciate the gifts we have and protect them for new generations.

Asher

 

[Mark Hampton]

So what has this to do with photography?

It's my belief that we hold up a lantern to our world. Then self interest and compassion might open our minds and we will all appreciate the gifts we have and protect them for new generations.

Asher

asher,

*we do measure ... but we also form how and what we collect and make...and how it is used....what is uttered is not just a sum of the outside but also of whats being projected ...

a photograph (of whatever type) is always a fusion of time and history .. edited by one mind and given to anther.. the human is not the image but the reading of the image...

behind they eyes...

 

[Tracy Lebenzon]

Psychologists talk of “emotional cognition.” This is where emotions held by groups are captured and then the emotion is used to pursue specific agenda.

Political will is all about promoting fear and using it as a tool for emotional cognition.

The solution to global warming is simple, in theory: Make people fearful, and use that fear to drive the populace toward the goal of using fewer natural resources.
Add to that detail that western culture instills a craving to use more and more resources as a means of objectifying nearly every perceived emotional need from happiness to status to personal fulfillment, and it’s not too great a leap to conclude that the solution to global warming is to alter the nature of Western culture.

Of course all living organisms use natural resources. The more people, the more resources we use.

Tracy

 

[Asher Kelman]

Add to that detail that western culture instills a craving to use more and more resources as a means of objectifying nearly every perceived emotional need from happiness to status to personal fulfillment, and it’s not too great a leap to conclude that the solution to global warming is to alter the nature of Western culture

There's nothing specific to Western Culture blocking progress. In fact European society is drifting. What does it stand for except trade, perhaps and "freedom of choice". It only knows that it must not be prejudiced. On the TV, it's rare to see a program praising Christianity. Folk are not proud of their own cultural background. Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, is almost empty for weekday services! In fact one could argue that Europe has lost it's identity.

Europe is no more materialistic than any other culture. Look at Turkey. Whenever they have money, they buy things. Same as with Kuwait or Dubai.

Psychologists talk of “emotional cognition.” This is where emotions held by groups are captured and then the emotion is used to pursue specific agenda.

Political will is all about promoting fear and using it as a tool for emotional cognition.

The solution to global warming is simple, in theory: Make people fearful, and use that fear to drive the populace toward the goal of using fewer natural resources.

Tracy,

You are quite right. That might work. But we could also use love and persuade by facts and self interest for our children and grandchildren. But first we have to break down the dogmatic barriers to letting in this knowledge. Most religious schools in the USA build a resistance to and suspicion of science, especially anything to do with biology and life.

Of course all living organisms use natural resources. The more people, the more resources we use.

This runs counter to dogma in the minds of fundamentally devoted Christians, Catholics and very Orthodox Jews, at the very least. We must not be afraid to address these issues.

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

Tracy,

Mea Culpa: I wrote in error in your post, # 48 and have now rebuilt it. Hopefully it's now as it was originally. If not, I'll correct any revisions that are needed. My apologies!

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

Post # 19 was not written clearly and put in proximity two unrelated pairs of mind change. This might lead to inference from one to another and to avoid that, I've left post #19 as written but separated the unrelated sets of changes that give us insight to switches in dogma.

There's now in post #20 an "Evil to Good" switch of dogma and then in # 21, two seemingly "Equally Good" strategies for controlling one's life by a single set of dogma related to different, exclusionary, internally pretty consistent, but equally powerful religious authorities.

I hope these additions clarify my comments or utter switch over of resident dogma in human minds.

I'd love to have more examples and learn how we might be able to persuade folk to the real fragility of the earth and the need to face up to the damage we do by relentless growth but refusal to accept science and rational argument as the only basis for solving such risks to the
biosphere.

Asher

 

[fahim mohammed]

Asher, thank you for the clarification.

 

[Jerome Marot]

I'd love to have more examples and learn how we might be able to persuade folk to the real fragility of the earth

As photographer, we can do a little, but not much. Photographs on the consequences of destruction of the environment have an effect, but not lasting I'm afraid. Sufficient for the people to feel guilty a little while but not enough to actually lower their own level of comfort.

At example of a striking photo series on pollution is "Midway - Message from the Gyre" by photographer Chris Jordan. Quote from the web site:
On Midway Atoll, a remote cluster of islands more than 2000 miles from the nearest continent, the detritus of our mass consumption surfaces in an astonishing place: inside the stomachs of thousands of dead baby albatrosses. The nesting chicks are fed lethal quantities of plastic by their parents, who mistake the floating trash for food as they forage over the vast polluted Pacific Ocean.
For me, kneeling over their carcasses is like looking into a macabre mirror. These birds reflect back an appallingly emblematic result of the collective trance of our consumerism and runaway industrial growth. Like the albatross, we first-world humans find ourselves lacking the ability to discern anymore what is nourishing from what is toxic to our lives and our spirits. Choked to death on our waste, the mythical albatross calls upon us to recognize that our greatest challenge lies not out there, but in here.

The pictures are one of the strongest photographic testimonial on the extent and amount of pollution of out planet I have seen in the past years. Did it change much? Not really.

Picture by Chris Jordan.​

More on Chris Jordan web site.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

And with the reference to Chris Jordan we have come full circle again. It is the nature of these discussions that we inevitably repeat ourselves, sometimes ad nauseam. In this thread we have discussed the ecological issues extensively, a re-read is recommended. Here is the previous reference to Chris Jordan by Jerome and here is mine from within another context (namely that of photography, surprise, surprise!).

 

[Asher Kelman]

And with the reference to Chris Jordan we have come full circle again. It is the nature of these discussions that we inevitably repeat ourselves, sometimes ad nauseam. In this thread we have discussed the ecological issues extensively, a re-read is recommended. Here is the previous reference to Chris Jordan by Jerome and here is mine from within another context (namely that of photography, surprise, surprise!).

Cem,

When things come around full circle, we can get reinforcement, and here's a case in point. ASAIR, this is the first time I have seen such a picture. It's as devastating as the marble is inspiring. So let me take your last post and put it here to shame us all!

Hi Mike,

I like the image and the presentation. It reminded me immediately of the work of the American photographer Chris Jordan.
He has a 2009 project called Midway:
I really recommend looking at those pictures in his web site. Here I am showing one of them for editorial purposes:

Chris Jordan - Midway: Message from Gyre - editorial link

Cheers,

​

Res ipsa loquitur, a brilliant moral, logical, ethical, poetic but tragically persuasive argument introduced, presented, closed and made in one glance!

Asher

 

[fahim mohammed]

Restricting myself to environmental pollution alone ( an impossible task ), I shall play the devil's advocate(
no snide remarks please!! ).

' I have pooed all over '. ' No you cannot poo , You shall only make the place dirtier'. ' However, I want

your help to clean the hundreds of years of accumulated poo '. ' No, why should I pay to clean my poo? '.

' What I really want is not to pay for cleaning my poo; I need your help to clean my poo and that You

not contribute more poo ' ; ' Why? Because I have learnt from my past pooing orgy that any further

pooing frenzy from you and your kind is unclean shall make me and my children sick'. ' Why, because

there are so many more of you that want to poo '. ' No, I have data to back it up '. Of course. I only

have your children's best interest at heart.'

' No..you say no. You ungrateful wretch .' ' See Samantha, you cannot reason with them. I told you not to

poo in the open. Now they too have learnt from us. They too want to poo and in the open too .'

' Whatever shall we do dear? Whither shall we go to poo ? I miss the good old days George, now we need

a visa to go and poo .' ' Not everyone needs a visa to go and poo..we can poo and drop it over them..Oh!

Darling. Brilliant. Maybe they shall even thank us for that... poo from heaven .' ' Could you pass the Brandy

my love...'

 

[Asher Kelman]

Restricting myself to environmental pollution alone ( an impossible task ), I shall play the devil's advocate(
no snide remarks please!! ).

' I have pooed all over '. ' No you cannot poo , You shall only make the place dirtier'. ' However, I want

your help to clean the hundreds of years of accumulated poo '. ' No, why should I pay to clean my poo? '.

' What I really want is not to pay for cleaning my poo; I need your help to clean my poo and that You

not contribute more poo ' ; ' Why? Because I have learnt from my past pooing orgy that any further

pooing frenzy from you and your kind is unclean shall make me and my children sick'. ' Why, because

there are so many more of you that want to poo '. ' No, I have data to back it up '. Of course. I only

have your children's best interest at heart.'

' No..you say no. You ungrateful wretch .' ' See Samantha, you cannot reason with them. I told you not to

poo in the open. Now they too have learnt from us. They too want to poo and in the open too .'

' Whatever shall we do dear? Whither shall we go to poo ? I miss the good old days George, now we need

a visa to go and poo .' ' Not everyone needs a visa to go and poo..we can poo and drop it over them..Oh!

Darling. Brilliant. Maybe they shall even thank us for that... poo from heaven .' ' Could you pass the Brandy

my love...'

Does anyone need this translated?




Fahim,

So the humor part you've proved. The facts underlying your sketch are more complex. As a start, let me assure you, there are no secret bomber bases readied to drop the poo on you from the sky or by any other means. That part was, I do insist sarcastic to the nth.

Chinese rivers are polluted to an extreme. In Beijing they have catastrophically ruined the air they breathe from the soot they put into their skies. Their rivers too are suffering from industrial pollution on a vast scale. This, even with Draconian birth control in place!

In other places, such Bangladesh, clean water and antibiotics have led to a bloom in the survival of infants, (a wonderful advance), but there are no jobs to support the massive growth of population and so the folk are pushed down to squalor. So barefoot children and adults strip valuable junk ships of iron in clouds of asbestos insulation.

Michael Reichman: Book Cover ​

I know this from the photographs I purchased from Michael Reichman. Without such photography, who would know or be moved.

It's complex.

So what should we do, just blame the West and go on as usual?

Asher

 

[Jerome Marot]

In Beijing they have catastrophically ruined the air they breathe from the soot they put into their skies.

I did not notice that when I went to Beijing myself. What I did notice is that many, many chinese used electric vehicles: small, two wheeled electric mopeds. Very clever: the battery can be taken off to be recharged at work. They are made in Shanghai. Somewhat curiously, I did not see many of these in Shanghai. But then, Shanghai has a modern metro.