Using ultra wide lenses to get a Pano from a roof 15 stories up! Lens choice and rig?

[Asher Kelman]

I'm going to buy new ultrawide angle lenses. I also need advice on getting pictures from a high roof.

First, I'm especially interested in the Nikon 14-24 Nikon lens for my Canon 5DII. Here are some questions that you might be able to answer. So my interest is on the adapter you find works best.

I need to take Panos both interiors as well as exteriors from the ground and roof. (I've sold my ultrawide angle lenses, don't trust the 24-105 for this and am impressed with both the new the 17mm and 24 mm T-S lenses from Canon)..

The latter lens is most intriguing as reports are that it's the best in that range. Given my needs, what's your related experience and how did this change your work. What were the benefits? More detail, easier stitching, less corrections needed?

Can programs like lens correction programs such as DXO account for using a Nikon lens on a Canon camera?

What adapter did you get and would you buy that one again?

Thanks,

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

I have an answer from Nicolas and he used the adapter from the U.K 16-9 website. Who else uses this lens and do you use the adapter with the chip or another one?

Asher

 

[Michael Fontana]

Asher
there isn't any other adapter than the one from Mark - 16-9 - that allows to stop down, after focusing.
You might find other Nikon to EOS-adapters, but as the 14-24 is a G-lens, it hasn't any exterior f-stop-barrel, so you can't stop down with these adapters. Here's what Mark did:

he figured out two mechanism to stop down the lens-internal f-stop, while not having contact with the camerainternal electronic.

Any yes, I'm having the 16-9-adapter, it's one of the first batch (about 100) following a prototype-batch of about 10 (??) I think it might be called version 1, and I have no complain.

Yes, the autofocus-chip is on board, and while I personally dont' use it that much (on tripod), it' s quite handy when shooting handheld, in the street, and stopped down to 5.6, as focusing is more difficult, then.

 

[Michael Fontana]

I use it most on wide architecture shots - from about 16 - 21 mm, as I' ve the TSE 24 as well. These two together fit perfectly all my needs in the wide-range, while beeing different.

Benefits of N 1424: unrivaled king of any brands ultrawide zooms; tacksharp - even in the corners (unlike any canon ultrawide) good resolution, good pop, low CA, and very low distortion in the 16 - 24 mm range, and low in the 14 and 15 mm range. I dont' use it for stitching, though - as other lenses are better suited for it. Stitching in the 16 mm-range doesn't makes really sense, as you' re having enormous FOVs, then.

I think you might find more in the forum, as I have been posting about it - maybe in Bart's UW-thread?

 

[Asher Kelman]

I use it most on wide architecture shots - from about 16 - 21 mm, as I' ve the TSE 24 as well. These two together fit perfectly all my needs in the wide-range, while beeing different.

Benefits of N 1424: unrivaled king of any brands ultrawide zooms; tacksharp - even in the corners (unlike any canon ultrawide) good resolution, good pop, low CA, and very low distortion in the 16 - 24 mm range, and low in the 14 and 15 mm range. I dont' use it for stitching, though - as other lenses are better suited for it. Stitching in the 16 mm-range doesn't makes really sense, as you' re having enormous FOVs, then.

I think you might find more in the forum, as I have been posting about it - maybe in Bart's UW-thread?

Just for stitching at 24 mm would you choose the T-S or the N14-24 just for the benefits of the stitch and how much difference would there be?

Asher

 

[Michael Fontana]

Between the two: the TSE-24

but for stitching only, I like - in that range, horses for courses - better the distagon 28 (280 gramms - 200 - 300 bucks!) - with 3 shots youre in a HFOV of 110 degs!
With a 24 mm, you' re in nasty 120 degs already.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Between the two: the TSE-24

but for stitching only, I like - in that range, horses for courses - better the distagon 28 (280 gramms - 200 - 300 bucks!) - with 3 shots youre in a HFOV of 110 degs!
With a 24 mm, you' re in nasty 120 degs already.

The 28mm Distagon, an especially good choice for landscapes and buildings lit by the sun, requites that I shave the mirror of my 5DII or else I could rent a 1Ds Mark III.

I need a 160-180 degree view and will use Bart's information of PTGui to try different areas treated with different projections. I'm shooting this at night from a roof. I'd love to have a stable platform to extend out 5 to 7 meters. I was thinking of some kind of sliding rail or swinging boom. The problem is that what I've found so far has too much wiggle. It's designed for lights not a camera. It's a matter with knowing the names of what to try to rent!

I did the pictures already with the 50mm 1.2 but want to do it with less images and longer times so I need a good platform too. You are the expert on that. At least you had experience with a project you shared from the top of a building getting an excellent wide view. I can't find the link to your work on that.

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

need a 160-180 degree view and will use Bart's information of PTGui to try different areas treated with different projections.

160-180 degrees in a single image requires a very special projection method.

BTW I commented about PTAssembler (Windows), Michael about PTGUI (Win/Mac). PTAssembler is the current king of projections, and stitching of flat surfaces, including Exposure fusion and focus stacjking capability in a seamless workflow.

I'm shooting this at night from a roof. I'd love to have a stable platform to extend out 5 to 7 meters. I was thinking of some kind of sliding rail or swinging boom. The problem is that what I've found so far has too much wiggle. It's designed for lights not a camera. It's a matter with knowing the names of what to try to rent!

How high is the roof? Maybe you can shoot tethered from the ground by using a telescopic pole construction.

Cheers,
Bart

 

[Asher Kelman]

160-180 degrees in a single image requires a very special projection method.

BTW I commented about PTAssembler (Windows), Michael about PTGUI (Win/Mac). PTAssembler is the current king of projections, and stitching of flat surfaces, including Exposure fusion and focus stacjking capability in a seamless workflow.



How high is the roof? Maybe you can shoot tethered from the ground by using a telescopic pole construction.

15 stories high!

I'm looking for some aluminum 4 pole truss with a small stable platform that I can wind out with with a screw handle maybe even doing that on a block of wood, but that's heavy! I'm sure it exists but there are names for things needed in order to rent them!

Asher

 

[Michael Fontana]

hm Asher
did you thought about the wind on top of a 15-floor-building?

Then the poles AND panoramahead have to be very stable and sturdy, especially for long exposures, which makes the whole thing heavy!

The 3D-panoramamaker do have some motorised poles for making spheres in about 5 to 10 m of height, but I doubt it will be stable enough for your situation:

Best would be a scaffold-typ construction, IMO.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Lens, Night, Height, Lean out, hold on: "Action!"

hm Asher
did you thought about the wind on top of a 15-floor-building?

Then the poles AND panoramahead have to be very stable and sturdy, especially for long exposures, which makes the whole thing heavy!

The 3D-panoramamaker do have some motorised poles for making spheres in about 5 to 10 m of height, but I doubt it will be stable enough for your situation:

Best would be a scaffold-typ construction, IMO.

Thanks Michael,

There's a lot of choices. These are very good ideas on different rigging choices. Thanks. The best thing is to start to learn the vocabulary so as to be able to search for options one can afford that can fit! There's tall tripods from surveying and extending poles, carbon fiver fishing poles from the U.K. and GPS poles.
I have found all sort of interesting gear.

What I'd like is something that will be rigid and simple. I am looking into an 11ft tripod with a 3ft windup center column that can be used on the other roofs to get above structures and maybe I can find a longer center column. For reaching out, I am thinking of a U-shaped aluminum or steel device with a fold-out rail to send out my Gigapan Robot. I might just try with a simple beam and just get brute force manpower and safety ropes to secure everything. I'm also thinking of taking a helicopter ride. We do have an heliport! However, the issue with that is the need to use faster speeds. I'd like to have longer exposures and go for a more sturdy platform. Maybe the new 1DIV has high enough ISO!

Anyway, this is what I've go so far, a panorama (Design Sketch): Canon 5DII 50 mm 1.2L, handheld, stitched in Autopano Giga, from jpgs

Asher Kelman: The Colburn School, Grand Avenue, Walt Disney Concert Hall and the Music Center​

Notice that the edge of the right tower has a stitching error and that the top right part of that tower has not been imaged but hidden in shadow for the sake of the composition. This is a sketch of a design commissioned for a Gala invitation for spring to show that this major school is a significant player in the Grand Avenue Cultural corridor. I'm working on other vantage points too, but this is one that the PR team requested for immediate use. They like it so I plan to process the current files from RAW in C1 and remove the noise by the best method. I'll present that to the graphic artist (and then repeat the picture with longer exposures on a stable platform. I might have the 24mm TSE, so that there are less (and better images) to stitch.




Noise:The sample is from a reduced sized image for a quick look.

Asher Kelman: Crop to show high ISO and shadow noise​

I can post an 100% crop to see original noise from an untouched file too. I have Noise Ninja and of course CS4. What method would you use? For this initial use of this picture, it would be relatively small at 8" x 10", so that the visible noise will be reduced, just by shrinking the image size for printing.

Thanks for your input.

Asher

 

[Michael Fontana]

How big is the output file?
If' its small you could use a fisheye and defish it afterwards. One shot and you' re done - maybe even bracketing exposure.

As you changed the title, here's my experience:
using UW for stitching can lead to faulty stitches, due to large lens distortions. Not all the stitcher can handle it that well; I found in that regard the older APP (two years ago) less good than PTGui.

I think you should avoid noise rather on exposure, with ETTR, which means longer exposure --> you need a stable tripod!

Here's my panohead in about 4 m height:

Its fine for interiors, whithout wind. You could stabilise it with some wires, towards the floor, but then you loose the ability of turning it without a ladder, my °construction° allows to turn the upper rig at the top of the tripod columns, as the Sinar head can rotate and has marks of degrees.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Michael,

That's so helpful! What are the components and what's the longest central column for a trpod that can crank up!

Asher

 

[Kathy Rappaport]

Sigma 12-24

Asher

Have you looked at the Sigma 12-24 which has a version made for the 5d...
If you recall at one point it was one of Nicolas Claris' favorite wide lenses.

The 16-35 2.8 is also a very crisp lens and works well on the 5d

 

[Asher Kelman]

Asher

Have you looked at the Sigma 12-24 which has a version made for the 5d...
If you recall at one point it was one of Nicolas Claris' favorite wide lenses.

The 16-35 2.8 is also a very crisp lens and works well on the 5d

Thanks Kathy,

Nicolas has shared that he gave that lens up in his series of testing 16-35, 14mm and ended up with Nikon 14-24 which appears to be in a class by itself. I now need to get that and the adapter. When one is up high, one wants to get as few perfect pictures as one can with the least distortions. The work getting the picture and dealing with having security get one on the roof and go through safety measure putting cones on pipes etc one could trip over at night, is too much to have, after all the effort, anything but a perfect set of images.

So now I'm pretty settled on getting the 24mm TS as the main stitching lens and moving to PTGui as the stitcher to deal with the projection challenges. Now I'm left with getting the most stable platform. That means a trpod with a crank as Michael points out. Also I'm looking for beam to put out and maybe have rails to send a platform out with the Gigapa robot.

Asher

 

[Michael Fontana]

Asher,

my long heavy tripod (Gitzo - not on that photo) goes to 309 cm, whithout the head.
I added a Sinar head, as it turns arround the tripod axis and has a degree scale.
On top of that a adapter 5/8 to 5/8 - selfmade, to fix the Manfrotto column 35 mm in diameter and 60 cm in lenghts, that's it.

Another option - I did that alreday - is to lenghten the legs of the Gitzo; but that depends on the available ground surface.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Asher,

my long heavy tripod (Gitzo - not on that photo) goes to 309 cm, whithout the head.
I added a Sinar head, as it turns arround the tripod axis and has a degree scale.
On top of that a adapter 5/8 to 5/8 - selfmade, to fix the Manfrotto column 35 mm in diameter and 60 cm in lenghts, that's it.

Another option - I did that alreday - is to lenghten the legs of the Gitzo; but that depends on the available ground surface.

Michael,

Thanks for the help. I haven't identified which Gitzo tripod you are using. The labeling of tripods rarely gives height and there are so many to look at, LOL! Is that 309 cm without the central column raised? In any case, could you read off the model numbers? That would make things easier.

Do you stand on a ladder to turn the camera or can you did from below?

I also found some heavy duty stands with hand cranks. Some go to 14 feet. So I'm starting to learn what's out there. Interestingly, the surveyors tripods look very sturdy and one can have one as high as 335 cm without the center column. Then they have a column to add which cranks up.

Having the stable platform will get the camera above the various higher elements on the roofs such as peaks of sloping surfaces and geometric windows which rise above the roof-line.

Asher

 

[Michael Fontana]

Asher

that Gitzo is not the newest one, I had bought that some 20 years ago for the 4/5'-stuff; stable - some years later, I added some additional leg-parts - and could enter' em inside the normal legs, to make it higher..
poooh but bloody heavy, fortunatly I don't use it that much anymore....


the 309 cm is with the center column, but whithout head.


Do you stand on a ladder to turn the camera or can you did from below?

I need a small ladder of about a meter only, as I can rotate the upper column at 3, 09 meters - with the rotating Sinar Pan-tilthead, pretty stable as well:

Make sure to wait - after rotation - a few seconds, as the upper parth is bumping a bit - 1 Ds-2 and a fisheye, quite a rather heavy lens .... but not as heavy as the TSE24.

Therefore my suggestion for a less heavy lens, too. The heavier the cam and lens, the more the construction needs to be stronger and will become heavier.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Thanks for the extra info. Gitzo language for tripods is so obscure! However, I've found some candidates. Now I'm looking at prices.

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

Bump for nostalgia!