Welcome the 14 BIT self-cleaning 2x RAW 1D Mark III!

[Paul Bestwick]

1 DMK lll

it is announced !!!! Canon USA

http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20070221_1dmark3.html



what are your thoughts.....I never had any intention at all of buying a 1D. I use a 1DSMKll & was waiting for the upgrade. But, from what I can see, this camera is going to give me better images due to the 14 bit feature & seemingly better gradation between tones. At a low price point. Anyone care to elaborate

Cheers,

Paul

 

[Asher Kelman]

See me! Clean me! Own me! The 1D Mark III

Well I have tried to put together everything and am amazed how great this camera is!

Live view with the camera having focus to be optimized for each lens you have!!!!!

If Canon decided to make a MF Camera, some guys would need a new job!

One can control your 1DIII by by tethered or by WIFI and choose images from your computer 500 miles away!

House-trained: it cleans itself! The IR filter vibrates itself after you turn of the camera!

New 16-35mm lens with new glass elements: corrected better to the periphery and new motor!

14 BIT internal processing!

50% cut in noise!

Less interpixel dead space and better micro lenses: means more of the surace is actually collecting photons than any previous sensor!

New 580 EXII water/dust-sealed, faster recycle and quick-release thrown in!

Wonderful!

Asher

All the details here .

 

[Asher Kelman]

So what do you think?

Will you buy one?

Asher

 

[Nikolai Sklobovsky]

If I had the funds, I'd get them all
For the uninitiated: All the details here .

[CORRECTION] I will most definitely get me one. All those features under 4K...

 

[Joel Slack]

Great new features, more than the incremental, "evolutionary" steps frequently seen in upgrades. Yow! I'll be very interested indeed to see an updated 5D. Wonder how long before that happens...maybe Fall?

 

[JohanElzenga]

If this had been posted by anyone else, the owner of the forum would have told him to use the proper forum... ;-)

 

[Tim Gray]

Depends

on what the 1ds3 looks like.

 

[Aaron Strasburg]

And here I didn't expect to be remotely tempted by this camera....

Plus: A bit of a bump in resolution from my 20D. Weather sealing. Improved 1D AF. Near infinite battery capacity. 14bit RAW.
Minus: Tank. $4k. Can't use EF-S lenses (10-22 in particular). APS-H/1.3x sensor?

It seems like the APS-H sensor is the worst of all possible worlds, for me at least. For wildlife photography dropping the 1.6x crop factor to 1.3x isn't good so you're stuck buying really big glass. Canon's 16-35/2.8L (either version) is still their widest compatible zoom (or prime, for that matter), at ~21mm equivalent. The Sigma 12-24 looks pretty good as the only compatible superwide zoom, at ~16mm equivalent, and people here seem to like it a lot, so perhaps that's not a big hardship.

I'm somewhat surprised this sensor isn't FF even with the same resolution. It's still not possible to crank out 10fps at a higher resolution and I'm unconvinced that most of this camera's market wants bigger files, but why keep the 1.3x sensor? I think cost is still #1, but there's probably some resistance to changing from 1.3x in the target market too.

Even so I'm tempted. But I can resist....

 

[JohanElzenga]

Well, you must have seen the photos by now (I've handled the camera already). It's a real 1-series camera in every step of the way.

 

[Paul Bestwick]

To buy or not to buy

very tempting.........very affordable. No one seems to have commented on the statement by Canon that this is a completely new & reengineered camera. This is a huge leap forward. I think that the performance of this unit is going to creat quite a stir. My thoughts are that it will way exceed peoples expectations even after they have read the specs. I would like to get one as currently I have no backup for my 1DSll .....well I don't count my 300d.
Man......if you think this camera is something the !DSll upgrade is going to be that much more amazing.
I am gonna try to wait.

Cheers,

Paul

www.studio58.com.au

 

[Scott B. Hughes]

Well said, Paul.

We'll have one sooner of later, we'll see.... and then get busy learning the beast.

 

[Kim Fullbrook]

The most significant item for me is the native 3200 ISO capability and expansion (read: underxposure) to 6400 ISO. I wouldn't buy one just for this but we can hope it appears on other cameras.

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

The most significant item for me is the native 3200 ISO capability and expansion (read: underxposure) to 6400 ISO. I wouldn't buy one just for this but we can hope it appears on other cameras.

While exiting, especially when one shoots JPEGs, a small word of caution though.

Current EOS-1 models we can actually buy in the stores today, have a native sensitivity that results in a so-called 'Unity Gain' (1 electron per digital number after 12-bit amplification and quantization) of around ISO 1250. Any further amplification does not add detail, it just increases noise. If the suggestions by Canon work out as promised, that will improve things by 1 stop, say around ISO 2500.

I'm not saying that an 'H' setting of nominally ISO 6400 is useless, but you might be better off by underexposing the image (for the benefit of faster shutterspeed), and boosting exposure in 16-bit post-processing, if that fits in the workflow.

Bart

 

[Ron Morse]

This is just what I had hoped for. I will have one as soon as they are available.
I wonder how much I will notice the difference from a 1.6 to a 1.3 with my 70 - 200 and my 500.
Bad thing is I want it now.

 

[Anthony Arkadia]

Well i need to see some RAW files because all the samples i have seen so far are not very good, all are soft and some seem to be OOF. Until i see some RAW files i will not even consider on making a purchase.
I truly love all the new features, however image capturing is what it is all about, and from the samples, i am very disappointed so far.

 

[John Sheehy]

The most significant item for me is the native 3200 ISO capability and expansion (read: underxposure) to 6400 ISO. I wouldn't buy one just for this but we can hope it appears on other cameras.

Hopefully the 3200 is with analog gain, and it is optimized so that there is less noise than at ISO 1600 under-exposed by a stop. However, the 10D listed 3200 as an extension, and 1600 as normal, yet its 1600 was a push and not gain-based, so it is always possible that the only reason they consider 3200 not an expansion is because it is a bit less noisier than the previous cameras.

This all sounds good, but unfortunately, the sample images don't *look* good. They don't look less noisy, but that could be due to under-exposure.

Time will tell.

This isn't really a format that intersts me right now. I want a FF 16MP 5D-like camera (don't need the expensive 1-series "pro" build and features), and a 1.6x crop (or smaller) camera with a fine pixel pitch; 3 to 4 microns.

 

[John Sheehy]

Well i need to see some RAW files because all the samples i have seen so far are not very good, all are soft and some seem to be OOF. Until i see some RAW files i will not even consider on making a purchase.
I truly love all the new features, however image capturing is what it is all about, and from the samples, i am very disappointed so far.

In one of the model images there is periodic vertical banding in the image:

What's the point of 14 bits if you have stuff like this in the image? This is ISO 100, with a little shadow boost. Hopefully, this is just a lemon camera.

 

[Asher Kelman]

HI John,

Good pickup! did you discover this yourself?
which image fiole is it?

The same issue is on the 10D, read the current thread. Maybe you will get some isight!

Asher

 

[Harvey Moore]

What's the point of 14 bits if you have stuff like this in the image? This is ISO 100, with a little shadow boost. Hopefully, this is just a lemon camera.

John, Please explain how you processed to get the banding. Maybe post the before crop also.

I worked on both and could not duplicate it. Used CS2. The only thing I could find was pixel rows at 300%. Both of the model shots did look better with some sharpening.

harvey

 

[John Sheehy]

HI John,

Good pickup! did you discover this yourself?

which image file is it?

Yes. I wanted to see what the DR was like at ISO 100, so I boosted the shadow side of the model portrait from the Canon Japan samples, and instead of hitting JPEG artifacts, I hit this instead.

 

[John Sheehy]

John, Please explain how you processed to get the banding.

I moved the black, grey and white points in the PS levels tool.

Maybe post the before crop also.

I don't have the history anymore. The area was just a little dark before the Levels.

 

[Ivan Garcia]

Hi John.
I for one can’t duplicate your results.
Also, you must remember, the files we are working with are 8bit jpg, and not 14 bit raw.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Banding noise after moving white greay and black points: is it real?

I moved the black, grey and white points in the PS levels tool.



I don't have the history anymore. The area was just a little dark before the Levels.

1. Did you first convert the files to 16BIT?

2. Is it repeatable; that's the important thing!

3. Is it possible that line noise can do things like periodic noise patterns?

Asher

 

[John Sheehy]

Hi John.
I for one can’t duplicate your results.
Also, you must remember, the files we are working with are 8bit jpg, and not 14 bit raw.

Download the JPEG portrait.jpg from this link:

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos1dm3/html/eos1dm3_sample7-e.html

Then, at 100%, go to the hair to the left of her neck. Open the Levels tool in PS, and click on the black dropper, and go to a dark part of her hair, then click the white dropper, and click on a brighter part of it. You should see horizontal banding (vertical in the native camera format). It exists mainly on transitions from brighter areas to darker areas and visa versa, a lot like some of the problemic Nikon D200 cameras.

Call it nitpicking, but this camera is heralded for its image quality, so it isn't unreasonable not to expect things like this on a $4000 camera.

JPEG does not create artifacts like this.

 

[John Sheehy]

1. Did you first convert the files to 16BIT?

I only performed one contrast-increasing operation. There is no benefit going to 16 bits for one such operation.

3. Is it possible that line noise can do things like periodic noise patterns?

"Periodic noise patterns" are a subset of "line noises".

 

[Anthony Arkadia]

1dmkIII

Here are some more samples, the portraits look ok, but everything else just seems soft me. I just do not think that the 10MP are pulling out allot of detail, either that or a very weak AA Filter, just something about these images i do not like; except the portraits, they are passable

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E1DMK3/E1DMK3A7.HTM​

 

[Harvey Moore]

John Sheehy
Then, at 100%, go to the hair to the left of her neck. Open the Levels tool in PS, and click on the black dropper, and go to a dark part of her hair, then click the white dropper, and click on a brighter part of it. You should see horizontal banding (vertical in the native camera format). It exists mainly on transitions from brighter areas to darker areas and visa versa, a lot like some of the problemic Nikon D200 cameras

What you did is the equivalent of a 5-6 stop push of a shadow area. Below is a similar result from one of my 5D shots.

I do not consider this to be a problem at all.

harvey

 

[John Sheehy]

What you did is the equivalent of a 5-6 stop push of a shadow area. Below is a similar result from one of my 5D shots.

I do not consider this to be a problem at all.

If something like this is not a problem, what is the point of having 14 bits and the announcement of higher DR? Higher DR is supposed to mean more useable shadows.

This defect is not a good thing; hopefully it is just the single camera.

 

[JohanElzenga]

What's the point of having 14 bits for people who haven't the faintest idea of what that means? ;-)

You cannot edit an 8 bit JPEG and then think you can make any comments at all on the 14 bits RAW original.

 

[Ferenc Harmat]

Here you go: MORE samples...

Well i need to see some RAW files because all the samples i have seen so far are not very good, all are soft and some seem to be OOF.

I have always seen this from Canon's own samples, especially from the introduction of Mark series... Typically, little to do with true cam's potential. This is fairly normal, indeed, as teh 5D samples were... well, let's not get there.

Here are some high-quality samples that you may have seen (or not) already, showing absolutely amazing performance, at pretty much any ISO and under any circumstance. Sharpness and detail is very, very good and with a touch of mild, high-frequency biased sharpening, the .JPGs simply shine:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E1DMK3/E1DMK3A.HTM

I downloaded latest ZB/RIT, as suggested, but .CR2s will not open even with the suggested upgrade. Nevertheless, the images are simply very nice, colorful and crisp.

As for the high-ISO files, the ISO6400 output performance is almost a fantasy, considering the engineering and implementation challenges that such speeds mean.

The 1D MarkIII will definitely and confidently be one great addition to our arsenal, and will probably one the all-time greatest SLRs ever introduced. Not because of Megapixels, its bells-and-whistles, etc., but because of its unique combination of beauty, balance, versatility and performance that borders in insanity. It is truly special, and truly 1D-calss, in every way.

This camera just makes me wonder how the 1D MarkIV will look like...