Wide Angle lenses for the Hy6? Schneider, Rodenstock, Zeiss, tricks with adapters?

[Eric Hiss]

Here some more information:
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Thierry

Hi Thierry,
Thanks for the information. While I've not done a shoot with it, I'd agree with everything you posted with regard to the camera. It is lighter and feels smooth. It's also interesting to hear about the tighter manufacturing specs on the newer lenses. I wonder how much difference that will make? Well the difference in mirror drive might enable slower hand hold shutter speeds too, I guess?

Eric

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

hi Eric,

Lenses tighter specs: you probably know that for "usual" lenses (used esp. for analog), there are very big sample variations in terms of quality. This "might" in some cases (lower res CCD's or film) not be such relevant, but for the current very high-res sensors of over 30 MPx, that makes a difference if you have a good sample out of the batch or not. With the higher tolerances of the AFDs, we do not leave it to the chance.

Mirror drive: you are probably right, but am not that much of a "hand-hold" user myself, so I didn't try it yet. But of course for fashion, that makes a difference.

Best regards,
Thierry

Hi Thierry,
It's also interesting to hear about the tighter manufacturing specs on the newer lenses. I wonder how much difference that will make? Well the difference in mirror drive might enable slower hand hold shutter speeds too, I guess?

Eric

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

It's also interesting to hear about the tighter manufacturing specs on the newer lenses. I wonder how much difference that will make?

This is what Schneider Optics has to say about it: http://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/Digitar.pdf

How does that translate to reality? The proof is in the eating of the pudding, of course.

Bart

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

hi Bart,

well, that does really translate in reality. We are speaking here about the Digitars (which is another lens than the Schneider AFD), with different design formula. They can be compared with the Rodenstock HR (High-Resolution). For having worked with the HRs quite a lot on a view camera, I can say that the difference is huge, compared with "normal" lenses. This difference is even more obvious when shooting in multishot mode, in 16-shot mode, when the physical resolution is 4 times that of the sensor.

Now to come back to the new Schneider AFs (as used o the Rollei 600x bodies): that's another lens not especially developed and designed for digital, however very outstanding lenses and giving excellent results with digital sensors (in most cases). In practice it has shown that those lenses "good" enough to resolve the density of the current sensors. But as said, there are sample variations due to lower tolerances (film) and one can end as well with a "bottle glass" which could not be used with a digital sensor. That is where lies the difference with the new Schneider AFDs: their tolerance is set in a way that EACH lens hitting the market does meet the digital requirements.

Best regards,
Thierry

This is what Schneider Optics has to say about it: http://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/Digitar.pdf

How does that translate to reality? The proof is in the eating of the pudding, of course.

Bart

 

[Eric Hiss]

any way to have older lenses serviced to the newer tolerances?

Hi Thierry,

While I understand you represent Sinar and not necessarily Schneider, maybe you can still answer my question. I have now a 40mm f/3.5, 80mm f/2.0, 80mm f/2.8 AF, 90mm APO makro, 110mm f/2.0 and the 180mm f/2.8 lenses. I am wondering if these can be sent back in and adjusted/calibrated to the new specs? Maybe its not needed? I have read about the huge variations in certain canon and sigma lenses but not heard about any sample variations with the schneider or zeiss optics available for the Rollei 6000 series.
Regards,
Eric

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

hi Eric,

basically, such variations always existed, in time of film and for any type of lens, simply because tolerances (glasses, mounting/adjusting, etc ...) were not such tight. I don't think that it is possible to adjust them to tighter tolerances and would anyway be far too expensive. But as practice has proven, the Schneider (and Zeiss) lenses for the 600x series are outstanding lenses anyway. Did you test yours, respectively are you not happy with their performance?

Best regards,
Thierry

Hi Thierry,

While I understand you represent Sinar and not necessarily Schneider, maybe you can still answer my question. I have now a 40mm f/3.5, 80mm f/2.0, 80mm f/2.8 AF, 90mm APO makro, 110mm f/2.0 and the 180mm f/2.8 lenses. I am wondering if these can be sent back in and adjusted/calibrated to the new specs? Maybe its not needed? I have read about the huge variations in certain canon and sigma lenses but not heard about any sample variations with the schneider or zeiss optics available for the Rollei 6000 series.
Regards,
Eric

 

[Eric Hiss]

Yes I've shot with them all but I haven't done any scientific tests. What I ought to do is test them against the newer ones and see if there is much difference.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Thierry,

Hasselblad has incorporated lens-specific fine corrections for CA and other geometric limitations in firmware to improve their files. My information is that their 28mm lens is excellently corrected, one way or another. Leica does the same with coded lenses for the M8. The M8 adjustment to files seems to benefit lenses of other makes of the same focal length as there, at least, the challenge is dealing with the angle of incident light hitting the filter over the CCD. I'm not sure how more sophisticated the Hasselblad corrections are, but they claim a lot.

Are their any similar functions in the Hy6 or is this possible in the future or else is built into the Sinar/Leaf RAW software?

Asher

 

[Eric Hiss]

you can do it in post pretty easily

Asher,
I've been following this with interest so while your question was directed to Thierry, I'll respond too. The H3 digital corrections are for distortion, vignetting, and ca. It appears to work well but at a small cost in image sharpness. You can turn off these if you don't want them.

Certainly these types of corrections are available in post with tools like ptgui or kekus. Actually photoshop does some of these as well - just not sure if the Flexcolor tools are better or not. Having used quite a variety of RAW converters for my Leica DMR files with Flexcolor coming out tops for color and detail, I regard it highly despite its slow workflow.

Certainly it appears that digital lens correction is the future for all RAW converters - just a matter of time.

Thierry, can you tell us if Sinar plans to include these corrections in future software and the time line for such?

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Hasselblad has incorporated lens-specific fine corrections for CA and other geometric limitations in firmware to improve their files. My information is that their 28mm lens is excellently corrected, one way or another.

Part of the reason is that that lens has a smaller image circle, tuned for the sensor size. For a larger sensor one would need a new lens. Corrections for a smaller image circle are comparatively easier.

Bart

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

Eric,

No, at this stage nothing such is in preparation, obviously because the lenses we are using do not need such, in the contrary of Hasselblad with their 28mm.

But we are certainly the capacity and knowledge to integrate such software features if needed with future lenses.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry, can you tell us if Sinar plans to include these corrections in future software and the time line for such?

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

Excatly: the bigger the image circle the more problematic any optical correction. That's also why the Schneider lenses are so praised, with their image circle for 6x6.

Thierry

Part of the reason is that that lens has a smaller image circle, tuned for the sensor size. For a larger sensor one would need a new lens. Corrections for a smaller image circle are comparatively easier.

Bart