• Please use real names.

    Greetings to all who have registered to OPF and those guests taking a look around. Please use real names. Registrations with fictitious names will not be processed. REAL NAMES ONLY will be processed

    Firstname Lastname

    Register

    We are a courteous and supportive community. No need to hide behind an alia. If you have a genuine need for privacy/secrecy then let me know!
  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Worker

Antonio Correia

Well-known member
I asked this young man to make some shots of him when working on some windows I was needing.
He accepted gladly and I move to his working area where - after all his employees are gone - I shot these pictures.

Usual equipment for a change: Canon 5D + ST-E2 + 430 EX + 580 EXII

However this time I used the umbrella with the 580 trying to make a soft light all over, avoiding strong shadows
I told him to concentrate on his work while sometimes I said to look at me.

However this time something that puzzles me happened:
As you can see in the pictures the guy is not at the center of the frame.
I was using one of peripheral points for focusing and f/3.5 to avoid a too shallow DoF.
And the pictures are not dam sharp. No. You can't see it but I can.
The central point in camera is, in fact, far precise than the others. I was not focusing and cropping but framing right away and circulating to get the point that was needed.
I almost forgot: I was using the 24-70 f/2.8 Canon.

1.
341435645_3vPaD-L.jpg


2.
341406331_259Z3-L-5.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mike Shimwell

New member
Yup, the non-central focus points on the 5D are not quite as precise in low light as the central point in my experience. You can usually get a pretty good lock though using one-shot - and the odd real duffer!

I use this approach a lot and usually get a good proportion of hits.

To me the first image seems a bit flat. I think he could do with more light in his face and I'd try for a black and white conversion. Would you mind if I had a quick edit of your picture?

Mike
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Antonio,

I don't see anything wrong with the focus. The worker pictures are important areas of photography that we need more of. I love fashion, runway, landscape and the like, but all is not glamorous. Someone actually has to labor or engineeer and form things we use every day. Thanks for bringing these pictures to us.

Having said that, I'd like to see an extra step in getting from the picture shot to one you can exhibit, for there's always something special in your pictures. As you know, I have resepct for framing as we would like to print, but I have no hestitation to experiment and test whether or not the original framing and concept can be further tailored to bring out more of what is latent in the photograph.

To some, maybe better photographers, maybe not, getting it right first time is what counts. To me, the process is more dynamic and iterative and I could care less if I feel I might want/need to alter something in itself quite satisfying or turn the idea on its head.

My attention has not moved much beyond the first picture as I like the light from behind the worker. Here's a simple version of the same effect boiled down to an abstract minimum. It's typical of a fine Uraguian painter, Arturo Mallman, educated and living in Benos Aires who uses light like that. He has pictures of larger workman too, but I need to find that for you.

105647785_2278da5ba5.jpg


If you look carefully, you will find the tiny man and see his shadow. That overpowering light from heaven that we have to deal with is what he seems to be about. At least, that's how I see his work which I have followed for some time.

Here the worker is larger

105416963_e95303e2e2.jpg


I'll have to find a picture from the beginning of his painting career where the workman is working and is even more prominent.

In his earlier life he wrote poetry and short stories which, being AFAIK in Spanish, you will be able to immediately understand. I have not as yet read any of these early works but I do like his art and use of unexpectidly shocking light.

Your second picture would have captivated me too but I'm still on the first and seeing what is inside it!

Asher
 
Last edited:

Antonio Correia

Well-known member
Yup, the non-central focus points on the 5D are not quite as precise in low light as the central point in my experience. You can usually get a pretty good lock though using one-shot - and the odd real duffer!

I use this approach a lot and usually get a good proportion of hits.

To me the first image seems a bit flat. I think he could do with more light in his face and I'd try for a black and white conversion. Would you mind if I had a quick edit of your picture?

Mike

Please Mike. Do me a favor: explain me in other words "...using one-shot - and the odd real duffer!"

Let me explain what I did in the first image.
(BTW, go ahead with editing my picture please.)

There was a flash, the 580, "standing" and bouncing to the ceiling at the top end of the left pile.
The 430 was at our right with lowered power and with zoom at camera level.

Thank you for commenting. I do appreciate comments very much.
:)
 

Antonio Correia

Well-known member
Antonio,
I don't see anything wrong with the focus. The worker pictures are important areas of photography that we need more of. I love fashion, runway, landscape and the like, but all is not glamorous. Someone actually has to labor or engineer and form things we use every day. Thanks for bringing these pictures to us... ...My attention has not moved much beyond the first picture as I like the light from behind the worker. Here's a simple version of the same effect boiled down to an abstract minimum. It's typical of a fine Uraguian painter, Arturo Mallman, educated and living in Benos Aires who uses light like that. He has pictures of larger workman too, but I need to find that for you.

Asher,
The paintings I have seen here impress me because ... I don't like them LOL
The man is alucinated by the light. What a profane statement if he is recognized by the society and my statement worth not a cent (US$ or € :))
Indeed they are "Conversions" like stated in Flickr.

Excuse me but I have little to do with that kind of expression. I like clear things, bright, straight, well balanced, technically perfect, never achieved, as I am never satisfied with what I do/shoot.

Asher you don't see that the focus is not dam sharp because the photo in the net is small, but I do.
The pictures are not as sharp as they should be and I have obtained in other shots with the same equipment but under different light conditions.

Thank you for commenting. Much appreciated. :)
341404796_Hx4XR-XL-5.jpg
 

Mike Shimwell

New member
Antonio

I like this last one very much. He is engaged in his work and questioning you:)

One shot focus is when the camera locks focus when it thinks it is perfect and does not track the subject. Duffer is an english expression meaning very poor - in this case not sharp.

I agree with Asher that your worker series is important, recording a part of life that many wish to forget. Your series was in my mind when I shot tis last weekend

2712200870_0f75b2185c_o.jpg


And I've had a quick play with your shot and this is where I got to - no doubt you can do better:)

2720977360_9dfa54d328_o.jpg


I hope you don't mind me including one of mine in your stream. If so I'll happily move it.


Mike
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Asher,
The paintings I have seen here impress me because ... I don't like them LOL
The man is alucinated by the light. What a profane statement if he is recognized by the society and my statement worth not a cent (US$ or € :))[/IMG]
Antonio,

Yes, indeed! He is recognized as a signicant artist, although that does not negate your opinions. I feel that, if you understood his journey you might indeed be sympathetic with his work. Remember he comes from a very religious Catholic continent and the light of heaven is an enigma when one looks around and sees the burdens and struggle of the bulk of humanity in may poor areas there. One has to view artists from their own creative arc and that sometimes takes getting to know them better! :)

Excuse me but I have little to do with that kind of expression. I like clear things, bright, straight, well balanced, technically perfect, never achieved, as I am never satisfied with what I do/shoot.

With better art, we will look at both technical and esthetic atributes as well as how it might move us and question us and our assumptions or just make us laugh and entertain us with beauty or even the absurd. There is often a background of culture and knowledge for different works, as they might refer to mythology or other artists, for example. So, like fine wines, variations in art and photography genre can be an acquired taste!

Asher you don't see that the focus is not dam sharp because the photo in the net is small, but I do.
The pictures are not as sharp as they should be and I have obtained in other shots with the same equipment but under different light conditions.
That. I'm afraid is the Canon 5D focus which is crippled from the 1D flagship series! Thank goodness nikon is opening a new pradigm in camera offerings by presenting the fabulous D3 in a less costly package the D700. Canon refuses to do this and simple deactivates capabilities! I have this problem with the 5D! Sometimes I get so frustrated when it won't grab focus in perfectly good conditions. Mostly it's perfect!

The camera does so well with such great color that I am still happy with it and use it instead of my 1DII.

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Antonio,

I am always fascinated by your choice of subjects and how you execute your work.

341435645_3vPaD-L.jpg


Your first picture, of a window-frame maker, piqued my interest with the unique bright flash of light behind the worker. That by chance highlight seems ripe for exploitation!

As I pointed out in post #, this bright light effect reminds me of the Buenos Aires artist, Arturo Mallman. I know you have problems with art that's so ill-defined. Try to put that aside as an exercise and to look at another way of giving emphasis to a hardworking man. After all, he's small, as we all are in the larger framework of life on this planet.

Even forgetting all that about the special light, I find the image best suited for a portrait presentation as it can easily contain the essence of your subject and his world. Most of the OOF strips of aluminum framing stock, (on the left), have little extra to add to the picture and even dilutes its power.

Remember, I believe that "perfect" framing when the shutter is released, is something that comes late in one's growth. That facility is most needed and common in experienced professionals delivering images to put their bread on the table. Artists have more leeway.

These are the two versions I see in your first picture. Yes, yes, I admit it, they do have that strong light behond the worker. I thought you might still be interested in what I have attempted to show. This offering is not meant that I find fault with your work. Rather this is what I see within the picture, something I find, perhaps, more compelling.

341435645_3vPaD-L cropped Color_AK.jpg


Now another image, worked on separately and dedicated to B&W representation of colors to tonalities.

341435645_3vPaD-L%20cropped%20B&W_AK.jpg


Notice the use of the rule of thirds to place the worker's head. I have reworked the extra light from the flash as a compositional feature since it does frame the workers head, making it more important.

I have been very disciplined and parsiomonious in allowing the bright light effect to only be present and not, as in Arturo's use, screaming at us. We don't want to overwhelm your workman and create a pandemonium! So I hope the bright light is understated, subtle enough and acceptable.

I also allocated the hues to different shades of grey so as to make the worker the most important element of the picture. Notice even the measuring tape on his belt is dealt with separately. His forearms a very gently darkened to have them less important than his body, giving the viewer full attention.

May I state that we can now see your worker "in a new light"! :)

Thanks for granting me permission to post these derivatives of your special work!

Asher

Don't get big-headed yet, at least not for a while!
 
Last edited:

Antonio Correia

Well-known member
... Don't get big-headed yet, at least not for a while!

So much to write, so much to answer. Tomorrow.

Now, it is 23.38 and I am going to sleep.

Asher: can you please explain what a big-headed is, please ? Does it mean "prétentieux" or boastful, arrogant, swaggering, bragging, cocky, vaunting, conceited, puffed-up, bumptious, immodest, crowing, overconfident, vainglorious ??? from here

Brrrr.... (nor Grrr... :)) Arrogant. Oh God ! Can You help me ? I doubt but ...

See you in the morning when you are asleep LOL
 

Antonio Correia

Well-known member
I hope to be able to anwser everybody and write all I am thinking. I am going to try.
-
Mike says that the 1.st picture is a bit flat. Now that I re-read the post and I have looked at the picture with other eyes I agree and I will work on the picture again but only this evenning at home, on my Mac.
I will then replace the photo and make a post saying so.
-
Asher has edited the post more than once. Everytime I come here there is more text LOL.
Now that I look again at the Arturo Mallman picture I can see a silhouette - I am aware that there is an spelling error here but I go on hopping you understand - that I had not seen before.
However, I still don't like the painting. I like it better than before but not that much. The figure, the shape vanishes in light... Misterious, enigmatic.
-
Mike again
I don't mind at all if you crop, treat, whatever yoy want to do with my pictures. Go ahead feel free, be my guest. :)
Let me criticize your picture of the man grilling a pig (it's a small pig isn't it ?). Not exactly a critique but a remark.
I - and this is just me - try these days to shoot "different" pictures. Pictures with some difference, better of course, but different in the perception of light.
For that purpouse I use the flashes.
Your picture is - LOL LOL - flat. Nothing pops. It is easy to critique and say this is not good, that is not good. The difficulties come when you have to it yourself.
In fact I was thinking this morning shooting a guy doing the same activity in a restaurant I dinne every Saturday and I was wondering how was I going to do it.
Sometimes I act by instinct. Just like that.
I come to the place, and act.
-
Back to Asher
Art. Art. Sometimes I think artists are teasing us on the friendly side of the term, when they propose certain objects because they are recognized already and allow themselves what they want.

"Even forgetting all that about the special light, I find the image best suited for a portrait presentation as it can easily contain the essence of your subject and his world. Most of the OOF strips of aluminum framing stock, (on the left), have little extra to add to the picture and even dilutes its power."

OK That is one point of view. That I share and agree. I also like your framing. When I shot the picture I really was think at my composition in landscape, because I like to shoot for small adjustment crops.
I also like the B&W picture bt not very much...

I also have played with the rule of thirds... But rules are - sometimes - to be broken.

Thank you for reading this and excuse all my spelling and feel free to have a laught on my errors.
If you understand what I write I am happy. :)

341437798_W4vLS-M-5.jpg

 

Gary Ayala

New member
Morning Antonio-

I've been enjoying your worker series ... photography with a mission seem to add more to the photo than a single image.

Tenho estado gozando sua série de trabalhador... fotografia com uma missão parece adicionar mais à foto que uma única imagem.

Here are my opinions. Your images seem more technical than artistic ... more useful for an educational textbook than an art book.

Aqui estejam minhas opiniões. Suas imagens parecem mais técnicas que artístico... mais útil para um texto educacional que um livro de arte.

I find that your use if flash is just too obvious and while the flash adds technical detail ... the flash also subtracts shadows which would add more artistic flavor.

Acho que seu uso se lampejo é somente demais óbvio e enquanto o lampejo adicionasse detalhe técnico... o lampejo também subtrae sombras que adicionariam sabor mais artístico.

I suggest to photograph the same scene with flash ... then go back another day and try shooting sans flash. Maybe you can find some middle ground between technical recording of workers and artistic rendering of Portugal's workforce than will be journalistic precise as well as displaying the artistic eye of Antonio Correia which I have observed and enjoyed.

Sugiro fotografar a mesma cena com lampejo... então volta outro dia e tenta tiroteio sem lampejo. Talvez você pode achar algum chão meio entre gravação técnica de trabalhadores e interpretação artística da mão-de-obra do Portugal que será jornalístico preciso assim como exibir o olho artístico de Antonio Correia que eu observei e gozou.

Gary
 

Antonio Correia

Well-known member
Morning Antonio-
I've been enjoying your worker series ... photography with a mission seem to add more to the photo than a single image.
Tenho estado gozando sua série de trabalhador... fotografia com uma missão parece adicionar mais à foto que uma única imagem.
Here are my opinions. Your images seem more technical than artistic ... more useful for an educational textbook than an art book.
Aqui estejam minhas opiniões. Suas imagens parecem mais técnicas que artístico... mais útil para um texto educacional que um livro de arte.
I find that your use if flash is just too obvious and while the flash adds technical detail ... the flash also subtracts shadows which would add more artistic flavor.
Acho que seu uso se lampejo é somente demais óbvio e enquanto o lampejo adicionasse detalhe técnico... o lampejo também subtrae sombras que adicionariam sabor mais artístico.
I suggest to photograph the same scene with flash ... then go back another day and try shooting sans flash. Maybe you can find some middle ground between technical recording of workers and artistic rendering of Portugal's workforce than will be journalistic precise as well as displaying the artistic eye of Antonio Correia which I have observed and enjoyed.
Sugiro fotografar a mesma cena com lampejo... então volta outro dia e tenta tiroteio sem lampejo. Talvez você pode achar algum chão meio entre gravação técnica de trabalhadores e interpretação artística da mão-de-obra do Portugal que será jornalístico preciso assim como exibir o olho artístico de Antonio Correia que eu observei e gozou.
Gary

Olá Gary. Tudo bem ? :)
May be you are right and I am too adicted to flash use...
I don't know if I can re-shoot the same scenario/persons. But what I can do for sure is - at the moment of the shoot - make some photos with flash and without it.
Then, I will post and we all be able to judge.

I want to go on photographing workers of this country whoever they are.
I think I will be able to keep on doing so. :)

I can see you have made excellent progresses in Portuguese. If you want I can make some corrections. Don't use lampejo use flashe with the e.
Your Portuguese has a flavor of Brazilian:)

I almost forgot to give you all this link. It belongs to Neil van Niekerk.
See this exquisite use of flash ?

I also remember this Nikolai's assignments in DGrin.
Then I was saying already:
"The charme, the class of the use of fill flash is in using it in a so subtle way that, beeing present, it looks as it wasn't." and I keep the statement today. Stronger.
The link for this thread is here in case you want to read it with Nikolai's answer.

What I would like to do it to master the flash like Neil does. Difficult task. But I can try.
I promise I will have more care on the use of such equipment in the near future.

BTW - I have re-worked the first two pictures. Huuummm. As good as the others.
I need some lessons on CS3 and Lightroom.

Saúde e Bom fim-de-semana :)
 

Gary Ayala

New member
Antonio-

Yes please correct my Portuguese. I do not like being wrong ...

I use Canon's free Digital Photo Professional to convert from RAW to JPEG and for global processing. I find the colors more vibrant, the image sharper and contrast crisper than with Adobe. If you try it make sure to upgrade to 3.4.1.1, the earlier version are not so good.

Uso Canon's Digital Photo Professional (DPP) converter de CRU a JPEG e para processamento global. Acho as cores mais vibrante, a imagem mais agudo e contrasta mais crocante que com Adobe. Se você ele tenta assegura-se de melhorar a 3.4.1.1, que a versão anterior não são tão boa

Take Care,
Gary
 

Antonio Correia

Well-known member
Antonio-

Yes please correct my Portuguese. I do not like being wrong ...

I use Canon's free Digital Photo Professional to convert from RAW to JPEG and for global processing. I find the colors more vibrant, the image sharper and contrast crisper than with Adobe. If you try it make sure to upgrade to 3.4.1.1, the earlier version are not so good.

Uso Canon's Digital Photo Professional (DPP) converter de CRU a JPEG e para processamento global. Acho as cores mais vibrante, a imagem mais agudo e contrasta mais crocante que com Adobe. Se você ele tenta assegura-se de melhorar a 3.4.1.1, que a versão anterior não são tão boa

Take Care,
Gary

Thank you Gary.
If you are not using an automatic translator I have to give you my compliments because your Portuguese/Brazilian is excellent.

Do you know that Brazil is, as well as India and China, an emerging power when Europe and US are going down ? A new order of the World is on the way, running now.

Portuguese may be in the future, a more important language than it is now or has been in the past.
And it has been important 400/500 years ago...

You are ahead of time my friend. :)

Do you have the same postal address as before ? :)
 
Top