2nd helicopter shots with the Sinar Hy6 and the Sinarback eMotion 75 LV

[nicolas claris]

yet another picture of nicolas working hard

I guess I was shooting this one ! (at least my horizon, if not completely horizontal, is not bent! ;-)

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Good advises Thierry!

But Loko/Lorenz came with a nice surprise for me… a rotating accessory for the back! that's very neat and absolutely necessary !

Although I've been told it won't work with the 45° prism finder ...

Bart

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

it does revolve, with the revolving adapter, both with the 45° prism and the 90° finder.

I have the camera in front of me.

Best regards,
Thierry

Although I've been told it won't work with the 45° prism finder ...

Bart

 

[Eric Hiss]

differences between the cameras

Coming late to the party- welcome Lorenz.


Now I am wondering about the big differences in color and contrast between the two camera files. Lorenz looks like you had a polarizing filter on your canon, no? But I don't think that explains all the difference - Nicolas did you process your files in linear mode or with a film curve? They seem so much less crisp than I would expect especially since I am familiar with the 80mm PQS lens you've used - its very sharp with good contrast.

I think these helicopter/boat/wind in her hair type of shots are kind of screaming at you to use the fast PQS shutters the Hy6 has. Not just any MF camera can do 1/1000th. I read you used the small aperture for enough DOF, however I'm wondering if you backed away enough to use a wider aperture and faster shutter if you wouldn't end up with an image that could be cropped and still sharper?

 

[nicolas claris]

A quick note Eric, as I do have a feet oudoor, leaving for another photoshoot (with an horrible weater forecast, but the client said to come anyway… :-{!

I think the difference of colors comes from the PP, I always process in order to have no burned highlights, which obviously is not the case of Lorenz shots…
If I would accept more contrats I'm quite sure that crispness would be there, as well as a "postcard look"…

I'm still fighting with the good compromise to find between DOF/Shutter/ISO until now I have, IMO, to much protected the DOF.
For the next shoot, weather permitting (light!) I'll shoot ISO 400 at 1/500s, adjusting ƒ…

Your solution to shoot wider from more far away and crop is an idea, but in that case I do prefer to downsize the existing files, it works very well to recover some crispness, but I haven't post such for the sake of truth…

I also tried to the 40 mm, but it's manual focusing only and therefore ads one more step in the process. For now I do have enough to do before pressing the shutter!

We'll get back next Monday!

Thanks all for your inputs and comments…

PS downsizing for the web from 6668 to 1100 pixels does not desserve the IQ… the difference of behavior is amazing … look at the shot "from the sky" (post #19) and the last posted one…

 

[Lorenz Koch]

I think the difference of colors comes from the PP, I always process in order to have no burned highlights, which obviously is not the case of Lorenz shots…

i admit to enhance and adjust the contrast as well as the colours in pp. although i try not to burn too many of the highlights either. since my pictures rarely go to print i try to make them look good for screen viewing. hence the difference.

and no.. i did not use a polarizer.

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

it does revolve, with the revolving adapter, both with the 45° prism and the 90° finder.

Great, thanks for the info! What was told to me was apparently wrong.

Bart

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

PS downsizing for the web from 6668 to 1100 pixels does not desserve the IQ… the difference of behavior is amazing … look at the shot "from the sky" (post #19) and the last posted one…

Downsizing for the web is essentially the same as other downsizing, except that the low physical resolution of our displays (approx. 0.25 mm pitch) shows the shortcomings of the algorithms 'better'. There are few resampling implementations that do it well. Most image processing software uses poorly implemented downsampling, including Adobe Photoshop, which hurts IQ.

My guess is that downsampling with ImageMagick and using the "-filter quadratic" parameter with resizing will give good results for this type of subject on a camera without AA-filter. Following up with a minor sharpening should result in crisp results for Web publishing. Maybe another filter will be even better, but I'd have to test that on an actual image (crop) from the Hy6 showing some aliasing sensitive detail (lines and edges at an angle).

Bart

 

[nicolas claris]

Downsizing for the web is essentially the same as other downsizing, except that the low physical resolution of our displays (approx. 0.25 mm pitch) shows the shortcomings of the algorithms 'better'. There are few resampling implementations that do it well. Most image processing software uses poorly implemented downsampling, including Adobe Photoshop, which hurts IQ.

My guess is that downsampling with ImageMagick and using the "-filter quadratic" parameter with resizing will give good results for this type of subject on a camera without AA-filter. Following up with a minor sharpening should result in crisp results for Web publishing. Maybe another filter will be even better, but I'd have to test that on an actual image (crop) from the Hy6 showing some aliasing sensitive detail (lines and edges at an angle).

Bart

Ha! I knew that you'll come on this one! thanks agian Bart,

ThoughI do not do "save for the web" but export as JPEG… still the issue is there… I'll surely give a trto imagemagick.com when I'll be back in Bordeaux…

 

[nicolas claris]

Bart

you have a 16 bit tif crop on my FTP server… same login and pass as last time…

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Good subject for testing the Hy6 MF system, congratulations and I'm happy to see that all the "digital back killer cameras" will have a hard time finishing something like this, no? after all IQ is king, especially with products like this boats...

Just one question. Is there a reason why not to use UV filter and hood? someone told me that you gain a noticeable amount of contrast just by attaching the old good hood in front of the lens, and in the case of a fixed 80mm even more so since you don't have to zoom in and out.

keep the good work (and keep posting images about it)

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

I agree with you, Leonardo. One can loose up to 2 f-stops from the whole dynamic range, which is enormous, when not using a lens protection.

One can make a simple test: shoot a small object on a white background, with and without lens protection (bellows or lens hood). One shall be surprised.

Thierry

Just one question. Is there a reason why not to use UV filter and hood? someone told me that you gain a noticeable amount of contrast just by attaching the old good hood in front of the lens, and in the case of a fixed 80mm even more so since you don't have to zoom in and out.

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

... there is nothing like a nice hood on a camera, it is a small detail, but for me is like the neck tie, represents the entire outfit. For example, the hood in cine cameras has always made an impression on me, how it represents the format of the film the are shooting with. Same with the new HD digital camcorders, the really good ones have a cine camera look. And what about the hood of the Leica lenses? on the other side, I find repelling the idea of all the tourists walking around with a 24mm-300mm ZOOM and a ridiculous hood at the end of it. How can you have a hood when your lens goes from super wide to super tele?? there is no balance, no beauty of the machine ... and the resulting image is probably as unappealing as well.

 

[Asher Kelman]

I was diverted today and then WOW! suddenly a helicopter. I was sea sick just looking at the figures hanging out over the water. congrats, I'll revisit in the am! Next time I had better fly over!

Asher

 

[Nathaniel Alpert]

A treat!

Nicholas,

I have finally overcome my anxiety threshold, to comment on your work. It's been a treat to see the kind of quality work done by a professional photographer. I am a photographic amateur, a wannabe, who has been thrilled with the move from conventional imaging to digital. Thrilled that I could do so much than I did with 35 mm film. Now, to see the sort of thing you are able to accomplish raises the bar to unimaginable heights. The work with this new Sinar is breathtaking in its detail and quality. I am really enjoying the vicarious observation of what goes into a commercial shoot. Thanks for sharing this with the members of OPF.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Out of curiosity, shooting from helicopters and chase boats, particularly with long lenses, have you used a gyro platform? I would have thought that would be standard equipment for this kind of work.

 

[nicolas claris]

Thanks for the kind words Nathaniel!
You don't have to feel any anxiety! And it's my aim to share, give and receive… these are among the best reasons we did settle OPF with Asher… so next time do not hesitate to comment, critique or just ask.
In photography (as everywhere else) the're no dum questions…
I'm sure you would have a lot to tech me within your own pro field…

 

[nicolas claris]

Out of curiosity, shooting from helicopters and chase boats, particularly with long lenses, have you used a gyro platform? I would have thought that would be standard equipment for this kind of work.

Hi David
for some good reasons…

• a few years ago it was just out of budget
• we're most of the time shooting both vidoe and photos
• we shoot in so many different places over the World that we would never be sure to find some Gyro to rent
• we can't afford bying 2 Gyros (even 1!)
• last but not least, I don' think that for the kind of work we do, it is necessary… look at this shot…

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

• last but not least, I don' think that for the kind of work we do, it is necessary… look at this shot…

That's right, you've got gyros built into the lens, and you can change your view or pan much faster than a gyro platform would allow.

Bart

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Hi David
for some good reasons…

• a few years ago it was just out of budget
• we're most of the time shooting both vidoe and photos
• we shoot in so many different places over the World that we would never be sure to find some Gyro to rent
• we can't afford bying 2 Gyros (even 1!)
• last but not least, I don' think that for the kind of work we do, it is necessary… look at this shot…

Thanks for the reply Nicolas. You're definitely getting fine results with the camera. It's great to see people using medium or large format for action photography, which is such a difficult task, even with a small format camera.

In general I'd think budget would be the main issue, but then again, you're not exactly using a low-budget camera, and you've got some high budget clients. Since Sinar is supplying the Hy6 and wants to use the images to promote the camera, if I understand the situation accurately, they surely want to show it at its best. I think Lorenz and Thierry are just going to have to loan you a gyro. With the weak dollar, a Kenyon Labs KS-6 should be a bargain (currently $2800).

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

... it's Lorenz who is holding the wallet (full or empty, I don't know)!

Thierry

I think Lorenz and Thierry are just going to have to loan you a gyro. (currently $2800).

 

[nicolas claris]

... it's Lorenz who is holding the wallet (full or empty, I don't know)!

Thierry

I'd preferred the new back to go easy with 800 ISO ;-) then get moooooore speed!
This would enhance the camera capabilities, and if I do the same (enhance my capabilities) we'll be on track!