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  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

An Introduction to vaccines!

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
This is intended to be an easy introduction preventing the worst of infectious diseases that afflict is, by using our knowledge of how the body naturally defends itself against microbes.

All germs have some overcoat and “stuff in their pockets that to the human body are recognized as foreign. Such materials are generally either made up of strings of amino acids in a protein or else unique weird polymers of carbohydrates.

Our bodies have collections of cells in a defense system called immune cells which are able to make programmed production of nano-chemicals engineered time strongly attach to the foreign materials and so make them easy for other cells to inactivate and devour them.

There are two principal types of immune response. Circulating engineered nano-chemical weapons called antibodies and specialized fighting vehicle-like cells call T lymphocytes. In common, these to processes rely on

1. an ability to customize weapons against the constituent building blocks of the invading illness causing organism

2. the ability to memorize the structure of the enemy building blocks and respond rapidly with a massive armed weapon response if that foreign enemy against ever penetrates the tissues of the body in the future.

Unfortunately this brilliant defensive war mechanism takes days to dissect the building blocks of the invader and weeks to mount an effective antibody and cellular response.

In the meanwhile, the infection multiplies the pathogen and this can be released to infect many others and a whole community can be one ill or be wiped out with few survivors, in the very worst cases.

So the challenge was to use the body’s natural defense system but make it far more effective for infections that hurt us!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Early vaccines!

An English physician discovered that cow maids infected with Cowpox we’re protected against often lethal Smallpox.

From this developed the idea that if one could obtain a “weaker cousin” of the dangerous microbe killing humans, then we could trick our bodies to making an effective military response well before the real dangerous infection came to that community.

This opened the war against dangerous infections by simulating actual infection by using weak natural, (or man-cultivated versions(, of dangerous invading organisms.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
How to get safe, but great body defense learning “training” of dangerous organisms for protecting us?

1. Natural versions from other species of animals. For example, Cowpox can train the body to subsequently defeat Smallpox

2. Laboratory grown variants of animal microbes that are cousins of debgetlus infectious organisms, for example the French developed vaccine against tuberculosis, BCG, Bacille Calmette Guèrin, originally for cows, that many Europeans have had with a consequent indented 1cm button scar on an upper arm!

3. Heat-treated or chemically inactivated purified organisms such as the Salk Polio Vaccime

to be continued!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Yes, it’s important to mention Pasteur

He was a very brilliant but very flawed man like all of us but much better and far worse!

Very important, but not at the painstakingly brilliant level of Madame Curie for a noble role in modern medicine
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Mistakes:

1. Pasteur’s Rabies vaccine was given to a boy,,without adequate testing in animals. Only 7 dogs had been used in tests. Pasteur was not a physician qualified to administer the shot and was brought for the French Professional Scientists for account.

it turned out that the shot to thr boy didn’t protect the boy as the Rabies challenge was too weak!

2.Early batches of the Albert Sabin’s ORAL LIVE attenuated vaccine, was contaminated by a live monkey virus, which could have been a disaster!

BTW, I still have Sabin’s original desk. My children didn’t receive Sabin’s oral vaccine. Instead being cautious, and against live virus vaccines, I got them the competing Salk polio vaccine, (which is inactivated), that I imported from Canada!
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Today’s Anti-virus Vaccines!

With the technologies of rapid and accurate DNA sequencing, the risk of contaminating extra viruses is close to non-existent.

1. Lots of pure surface virus building blocks in a stabilizing safe medium. NOT EFFICIENT

2. The instructions to make lots of pure virus surface building blocks suitable packaged

A. mRNA (Moderna and Pfizer vaccines), the string of nucleoside bases that code for the targeted virus surface components. This needs a delivery vehicle. Manufacturers use mixtures of lipids, (fats), to form spherules of a lipid envelope containing and protecting the precious and otherwise vulnerable and fragile mRNA.

All the packages need to do is fuse with the cell surface membrane of muscle cells at the injection site. Ribosomes will grab them and immediately produce endless copies of the virus surface protein and that will be shed and picked up by the body’s immune system to trigger immunity. Voila “ Success!!”

B. DNA (Astra Zeneca, China, Russia and scores of onstructed in a sequence the 4 bases, (Adenine, Thymine, Guanine and Cytosine), that codes for the mRNA in “A” above.

This has to be packed or else will be destroyed by enzymes. It has to get to the nucleus of muscle cells in the injection site.
i) using a modified human or animal adenovirus, (suitably altered in coding so it can’t produce disease). But it does reach the nucleus of muscle cells and the DNA is translated to many copies of mRNA which flood the cytoplasm of the muscle cells and hence to the ribosomes again producing thousands of copies of virus coat protein antigens. Again success!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
Today’s Anti-virus Vaccines!

With the technologies of rapid and accurate DNA sequencing, the risk of contaminating extra viruses is close to non-existent.

1. Lots of pure surface virus building blocks in a stabilizing safe medium. NOT EFFICIENT

2. The instructions to make lots of pure virus surface building blocks suitable packaged

A. mRNA (Moderna and Pfizer vaccines), the string of nucleoside bases that code for the targeted virus surface components. This needs a delivery vehicle. Manufacturers use mixtures of lipids, (fats), to form spherules of a lipid envelope containing and protecting the precious and otherwise vulnerable and fragile mRNA.

All the packages need to do is fuse with the cell surface membrane of muscle cells at the injection site. Ribosomes will grab them and immediately produce endless copies of the virus surface protein and that will be shed and picked up by the body’s immune system to trigger immunity. Voila “ Success!!”

B. DNA (Astra Zeneca, China, Russia and scores of onstructed in a sequence the 4 bases, (Adenine, Thymine, Guanine and Cytosine), that codes for the mRNA in “A” above.

This has to be packed or else will be destroyed by enzymes. It has to get to the nucleus of muscle cells in the injection site.
i) using a modified human or animal adenovirus, (suitably altered in coding so it can’t produce disease). But it does reach the nucleus of muscle cells and the DNA is translated to many copies of mRNA which flood the cytoplasm of the muscle cells and hence to the ribosomes again producing thousands of copies of virus coat protein antigens. Again success!

Asher
Thank you for sharing this knowledge Asher.! The DNA is a two step process from what I have understood but also are there any added benefit as opposed to the RNA. Like say less chance of infection or something like that? Can you compare any significant differences between the DNA verses the RNA. I realize that neither of these vaccines will edit your genes but some of the people I talk with have some crazy ideas about these things. Of course we are not scientists but I would like to glean a bit more from your expertise in this field if possible ?
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
The DNA, naked, is far more stable environmentally than mRNA which can be broken down by enzymes on your hands.

In the body, there has to be a method to direct DNA into the nucleus of cells, as everywhere else it will be chewed up. A “Taxi” virus transport system gets it to the right cellular location!

mRNA in a lipid bioengineered-spherules or DNA, (coding for that mRNA), sneaked into a crippled virus, the coded content is the same!

mRNA vaccines provide for translation to proteins directly from ONLY the mRNA copies that are actually injected into the arm muscle cells!

DNA vaccines, however, potentially can produce many, many more thousands of copies as the inactivated/weak virus that is the transport “taxi” carries with it code for polymerases to transcribe thousands of copies of the “passenger“ vaccine DNA as vaccine mRNA which now leaves the nucleus and floods the cytoplasm and gets grabbed by ribosomes and so manufacture of virus antigen is enormous!

So there should be an advantage.

Surprisingly, however, mRNA vaccines hold their own.

I am totally confident they all the Westen Nations vaccines are extraordinarily “safe & effective” and likely the Russian Sputnik Vaccine, too, despite our limited review capabilities.

[The Chinese vaccine has no peer reviewed data as of yet, that I know of, but vaccines by dictatorships on mass populations and non-transparent data is problematic in ethics and reliability and not respected here in the Western Cultures]

There are, today, no known systemic risks in the modern biotechnology derived vaccines. The live vaccines of China hold the hazard of contaminating animal virus because we don’t know their ethical guidelines for fastidiousness.

Beyond doubt, the simplest and purists vaccines are the nanotechnology vaccines of designer mRNA packed in lipid spherules. Don’t need a virus “Uber“ or “Taxl” to get into the right place in the cell and are ready to work WITHOUT A SECONDS DELAY!

DIFFERENCE ARE THOS IN STORAGE AND STABILITY: The practical differences are the thermal stability of the designer lipid envelopes and the nature of additive to ensure the precious engineered packages survive transport on many flights and trucks to each person’s arm!

Likely as not, one could take double or quadruple doses of the Western vaccines without any harm. I would jump at getting a third jab of Moderna vaccine, and I would finf it worthwhile to me, up to $2,000, to get a 3rd shot. Why, because for me, 99% TOTAL protection from any morbidity is NOT up to what I would like for myself!
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
The DNA, naked, is far more stable environmentally than mRNA which can be broken down by enzymes on your hands.

In the body, there has to be a method to direct DNA into the nucleus of cells, as everywhere else it will be chewed up. A “Taxi” virus transport system gets it to the right cellular location!

mRNA in a lipid bioengineered-spherules or DNA, (coding for that mRNA), sneaked into a crippled virus, the coded content is the same!

mRNA vaccines provide for translation to proteins directly from ONLY the mRNA copies that are actually injected into the arm muscle cells!

DNA vaccines, however, potentially can produce many, many more thousands of copies as the inactivated/weak virus that is the transport “taxi” carries with it code for polymerases to transcribe thousands of copies of the “passenger“ vaccine DNA as vaccine mRNA which now leaves the nucleus and floods the cytoplasm and gets grabbed by ribosomes and so manufacture of virus antigen is enormous!

So there should be an advantage.

Surprisingly, however, mRNA vaccines hold their own.

I am totally confident they all the Westen Nations vaccines are extraordinarily “safe & effective” and likely the Russian Sputnik Vaccine, too, despite our limited review capabilities.

[The Chinese vaccine has no peer reviewed data as of yet, that I know of, but vaccines by dictatorships on mass populations and non-transparent data is problematic in ethics and reliability and not respected here in the Western Cultures]

There are, today, no known systemic risks in the modern biotechnology derived vaccines. The live vaccines of China hold the hazard of contaminating animal virus because we don’t know their ethical guidelines for fastidiousness.

Beyond doubt, the simplest and purists vaccines are the nanotechnology vaccines of designer mRNA packed in lipid spherules. Don’t need a virus “Uber“ or “Taxl” to get into the right place in the cell and are ready to work WITHOUT A SECONDS DELAY!

DIFFERENCE ARE THOS IN STORAGE AND STABILITY: The practical differences are the thermal stability of the designer lipid envelopes and the nature of additive to ensure the precious engineered packages survive transport on many flights and trucks to each person’s arm!

Likely as not, one could take double or quadruple doses of the Western vaccines without any harm. I would jump at getting a third jab of Moderna vaccine, and I would finf it worthwhile to me, up to $2,000, to get a 3rd shot. Why, because for me, 99% TOTAL protection from any morbidity is NOT up to what I would like for myself!
Thank you for your in depth explanation.. much appreciated! You mentioned ethics and I don’t want to steer your thread in any other direction. Do you think there should be an avenue for the big players to enter into license agreements with others?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Thank you for your in depth explanation.. much appreciated! You mentioned ethics and I don’t want to steer your thread in any other direction. Do you think there should be an avenue for the big players to enter into license agreements with others?
I don’t see any ethical problems unless someone wants to import the Chinese Vaccine. I want to know if the used slave laborer for the research before the army.

In the West, we have overlapping methods, starting from every individual academic institution. Each had an ethic committee, (albeit with external religious leaders that hardly are qualified to be experts on ethics and morality since they rely on self-serving prejudice).

There are so many layers of review checking for faire representativeOf all communities in being tested to those who receive the vaccine.

As long as the distribution remains equitable, I would be happy. Let people make a profit!

Just reinvest the money in the countries vaccinated! We want all markets flourishing.

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
There are are obvious risks associated with an unproven technology such as Pfizer, Moderna compared to a traditional made vaccine such as AstraZeneca. This is something I would consider and not ignore ?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
There are are obvious risks associated with an unproven technology such as Pfizer, Moderna compared to a traditional made vaccine such as AstraZeneca. This is something I would consider and not ignore ?
I personally would only use the AstraZeneca as an reasonable emergency tool, for now, but invest heavily in better understanding the rare blood clots occurring in association with the adenovirus based vaccine.

it has a very low associated risk of blood clots and it’s so cheap and relatively effective with a single dose and can be kept in an ordinary refrigerator!

But, I am far more confident of the newer mRNA vaccines which are proving to be nothing less than miraculous!

Imagine using the so fragile mRNA with ubiquitous destructive anti-RNA enzymes everywhere from fingers to saliva! Who would have ever thought such a strange and far-fetched thing!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
I personally would only use the AstraZeneca as an reasonable emergency tool, for now, but invest heavily in better understanding the rare blood clots occurring in association with the adenovirus based vaccine.

it has a very low associated risk of blood clots and it’s so cheap and relatively effective with a single dose and can be kept in an ordinary refrigerator!

But, I am far more confident of the newer mRNA vaccines which are proving to be nothing less than miraculous!

Imagine using the so fragile mRNA with ubiquitous destructive anti-RNA enzymes everywhere from fingers to saliva! Who would have ever thought such a strange and far-fetched thing!

Asher
Fair enough but who really knows what the consequences might be 5 years down the road? This does not mean we should ignore the possibility of problems such as autoimmune problems, and other ailments. We currently don't know what any adverse effects might be long term. This simple fact would steer me in favor of the traditional type vaccines.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Fair enough but who really knows what the consequences might be 5 years down the road? This does not mean we should ignore the possibility of problems such as autoimmune problems, and other ailments. We currently don't know what any adverse effects might be long term. This simple fact would steer me in favor of the traditional type vaccines.
The Astra Zeneca Vaccine itself is far more modern than folk imagine. It’s based on the shell of a crippled monkey adenovirus packed with the sequence to code for the Covid-19 spike protein as well as a sequence for a clot inhibitor. No way is that “traditional”!

All in all, compared to mass deaths clogging hospitals in India, any vaccine is god sent!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
The Astra Zeneca Vaccine itself is far more modern than folk imagine. It’s based on the shell of a crippled monkey adenovirus packed with the sequence to code for the Covid-19 spike protein as well as a sequence for a clot inhibitor. No way is that “traditional”!

All in all, compared to mass deaths clogging hospitals in India, any vaccine is god sent!

Asher
Its strange though that a majority of people believe that somehow Pfizer and Moderna are the Continental Lincoln and Cadillac of vaccines and don't want anything else? Do you have any other helpful insight that you can add to your thread?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Its strange though that a majority of people believe that somehow Pfizer and Moderna are the Continental Lincoln and Cadillac of vaccines?
Well they are more far effective in giving strong and broad immunity to newer subtypes as well as the earlier variants. Astra Zeneca delivers about 65% immunity from infection but the mRNA vaccines reach 98 to 99% with two shots.

Still I want a third shot, if I could get it. I would gladly pay $1,000 for it just get super high levels to beat any new variant!

Might visit some right wing country town where the vaccines are sitting, piling up with each government shipment, unused as the folk feel that being a good Christian is enough protection and who wants to put something foreign in one’s body, after all!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
Its strange though that a majority of people believe that somehow Pfizer and Moderna are the Continental Lincoln and Cadillac of vaccines and dont want anything else?
Well they are more far effective in giving strong and broad immunity to newer subtypes as well as the earlier variants. Astra Zeneca delivers about 65% immunity from infection but the mRNA vaccines reach 98 to 99% with two shots.

Still I want a third shot, if I could get it. I would gladly pay $1,000 for it just get super high levels to beat any new variant!

Might visit some right wing country town where the vaccines are sitting, piling up with each government shipment, unused as the folk feel that being a good Christian is enough protection and who wants to put something foreign in one’s body, after all!

Asher
I think you need to do some more research about efficacy rates. Considering you are quoting clinical trials and not real world scenarios. AstraZeneca confirms a 100% protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death.


PUBLISHED3 February 2021



Increased efficacy with longer inter-dose interval


The primary analysis of the Phase III clinical trials from the UK, Brazil and South Africa, published as a preprint in The Lancet confirmed COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca is safe and effective at preventing COVID-19, with no severe cases and no hospitalisations, more than 22 days after the first dose.
Results demonstrated vaccine efficacy of 76% (CI: 59% to 86%) after a first dose, with protection maintained to the second dose. With an inter-dose interval of 12 weeks or more, vaccine efficacy increased to 82% (CI: 63%, 92%).
The analysis also showed the potential for the vaccine to reduce asymptomatic transmission of the virus, based on weekly swabs obtained from volunteers in the UK trial. The data showed that PCR positive readings were reduced by 67% (CI: 49%, 78%) after a single dose, and 50% (CI: 38% to 59%) after the two dose regimen, supporting a substantial impact on transmission of the virus.
The primary analysis for efficacy was based on 17,177 participants accruing 332 symptomatic cases from the Phase III UK (COV002), Brazil (COV003) and South Africa (COV005) trials led by Oxford University and AstraZeneca, a further 201 cases than previously reported.

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-c...the-primary-analysis-of-phase-iii-trials.html
 

Maggie Terlecki

Well-known member
In my area, there are not a lot of cases,(we are far from all the big cities) but we do have the African strain here and they are not giving any AstraZeneca here because it is supposed to be less effective against that variant. I just got my first vaccination a week ago, you can't ask what kind you want, they are giving the Pfizer to everyone.
When I see people in the US getting vaccinations in their cars I'm amazed; so different from here. Here we need to change our masks for a new one (they give them to you) clean your hands with sanitizer, then register, meet a nurse that checks your medical history and any medications you are taking, then get the shot (painless) then get a sticker to put on your leg with time of the vaccination where you must sit for 15 minutes to see if there are any adverse reactions. Once that period is done, and you feel fine, you then register for your second shot.
Also in my area, we are considered a yellow zone as the least worrisome, but have asked to be classified as an orange so that there are stricter rules and to keep infections down. We have been extremely lucky, since the pandemic has started earlier last year, in all the town in my area, within 150 mile radius, there have been 5 deaths (obviously, 5 is terrible if they are your family or friends) but far less than it could have been.
If we could only get the AstraZeneca or the J&J here, I would have taken them. The facts about blood clots shows extremely low percentages. You probably have a better chance of getting hit by lightening. I will take whatever help these vaccines have because they stop severe disease and death. Fine by me.
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
Ontario has been slower rolling out vaccines for anyone other than old age homes and essential workers. Anne’s mother who is 93, but is in good physical and mental shape living on her own and not having contact with anyone other than a few select family to care for her needs —- was able to get her first shot about 5 weeks ago.

The government has been ramping up in the last few weeks though. It was announced that those 65 and older could now get the Pfizer vaccine. Anne and I aren’t 65, but are born in 1956 - and that was the qualifier. So we headed to the center and got our jabs this afternoon. Very organized setup in a YMCA skating arena. I asked the nurse how many they are handling each day. She said 600-650, but that soon they would be adding a couple extra hours onto the opening and closing times to try and put through 1,000 per day.


Nice to have the first jab out of the way. We now have to wait until at least Aug 18 for the second. But it’s nice to see that Ontario is really starting to ramp up the dispensing of vaccines quickly - within he last week, even to include those 40+ at pharmacies using Astra Zeneca. Many of our family members are receiving those in the coming week.


Anne snapped this shot after we got our doses, to send to our kids and grandkids on our WhatsApp family chat. It makes them feel more comfortable that we are home in Canada and getting ourselves protected. Plus it makes them more receptive when I take the lead - they know that I have never had the need to take medication, the last time I was in a doctors office was when I was under 30 years old, and the last shot in the arm I received was when I was in Public School. I’m not against any of those things, just never had the need so far.


7B7810B9-7FA5-4CF9-AF75-3F82975106F3.jpeg
 
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Maggie Terlecki

Well-known member
Ontario has been slower rolling out vaccines for anyone other than old age homes and essential workers. Anne’s mother who is 93, but is in good physical and mental shape living on her own and not having contact with anyone other than a few select family to care for her needs —- was able to get her first shot about 5 weeks ago.

The government has been ramping up in the last few weeks though. It was announced that those 65 and older could now get the Pfizer vaccine. Anne and I aren’t 65, but are born in 1956 - and that was the qualifier. So we headed to the center and got our jabs this afternoon. Very organized setup in a YMCA skating arena. I asked the nurse how many they are handling each day. She said 600-650, but that soon they would be adding a couple extra hours onto the opening and closing times to try and put through 1,000 per day.


Nice to have the first jab out of the way. We now have to wait until at least Aug 18 for the second. But it’s nice to see that Ontario is really starting to ramp up the dispensing of vaccines quickly - within he last week, even to include those 40+ at pharmacies using Astra Zeneca. Many of our family members are receiving those in the coming week.


Anne snapped this shot after we got our doses, to send to our kids and grandkids on our WhatsApp family chat. It makes them feel more comfortable that we are home in Canada and getting ourselves protected. Plus it makes them more receptive when I take the lead - they know that I have never had the need to take medication, the last time I was in a doctors office was when I was under 30 years old, and the last shot in the arm I received was when I was in Public School. I’m not against any of those things, just never had the need so far.


View attachment 7497
Cool you were able to get your shots! Yesterday, both Quebec and Ontario announced that have or will be receiving millions of doses and all adults over 18 should be vaccinated (if they want it, of course) by end of May. Thought you'd like to know
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
Thanks Maggie. Yes we have been keeping up on the news and heard that. Things are changing daily it seems. We haven’t asked our kids what their choice is. It’s none of our business unless they volunteer that info to us. ——- Now the 16 week wait for the second jab for Anne and me, unless that gets pushed forward too.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
It’s so reassuring that you guys are getting your shots.

it’s really a micro engineering feat far more challenging than going to the moon!

Every child on earth always knew there was a moon but all they needed was a powerful chariot to fly us there.

For virus we had no clue!

We needed to understand matter: what an atom and an electron might be. We had to realize the knowledge that Darwin discovered on inheritance and evolution and eventually genes that were located in chromosomes and nucleic acid that amazingly, coded for all life!

From there it was a 50+ year hop and a skip of billions in coin in science education, universities, industry and brilliance to develop these simple and amazingly safe vaccines!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
The more pressing concern for now, scientists say, remains the spread of B.1.1.7, the variant first seen in the U.K. Though it’s not thought to cause more severe cases of Covid-19, if it causes more cases overall because it spreads more easily, that will lead to more hospitalizations and deaths. It is also likely harder to control than other variants and raises the threshold of the percentage of the population that needs to be protected to reach herd immunity.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/07/coronavirus-mutation-vaccine-strength/
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Good points James,

Spread is the engine for new variants. The more millions infected the more variants to worry about. The ones we worry about are already being tackled expeditiously.

But the planet political systems haven’t yet grasped the need to wage total war and stop the next 20 million as that’s several more unknown variants.

Thid is now a purely political and military problem. We cannot treat this as an option like “liking” Madonna & Chocolate or pre-marital sex where folk should have the right to choose or refuse!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
Good points James,

Spread is the engine for new variants. The more millions infected the more variants to worry about. The ones we worry about are already being tackled expeditiously.

But the planet political systems haven’t yet grasped the need to wage total war and stop the next 20 million as that’s several more unknown variants.

Thid is now a purely political and military problem. We cannot treat this as an option like “liking” Madonna & Chocolate or pre-marital sex where folk should have the right to choose or refuse!

Asher
Sure but the window is about 9 months according to a lot of scientists and our current vaccines will be redundant by that time.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/30/mut...t-covid-vaccines-ineffective-soon-survey.html
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Sure but the window is about 9 months according to a lot of scientists and our current vaccines will be redundant by that time.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/30/mut...t-covid-vaccines-ineffective-soon-survey.html
New vaccines based on current techniques can be updated in 48 hrs with a production lag of 2 weeks and building up stock
to ship of 1 months approx.

However, we will need better and better broader spectrum antibodies produced and another mutant might arise that multiplies in the mouth and suddenly increases spread or lethality ten-fold.

So the key is hard-shut downs and authoritarian command and vaccination by law before there are mutants we can’t deal with!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
New vaccines based on current techniques can be updated in 48 hrs with a production lag of 2 weeks and building up stock
to ship of 1 months approx.

However, we will need better and better broader spectrum antibodies produced and another mutant might arise that multiplies in the mouth and suddenly increases spread or lethality ten-fold.

So the key is hard-shut downs and authoritarian command and vaccination by law before there are mutants we can’t deal with!

Asher
We will never be able to eradicate the viruses. One is we cant produce vaccines fast enough and two they will always be able to escape from the animal kingdom.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
We will never be able to eradicate the viruses. One is we cant produce vaccines fast enough and two they will always be able to escape from the animal kingdom.
This virus can be blocked to a stalemate if we have herd immunity!

....we don’t ever end the fight be can continue our lives!
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
This virus can be blocked to a stalemate if we have herd immunity!

....we don’t ever end the fight be can continue our lives!
Pangolins and bats are both nocturnal animals, eat insects, and share overlapping ecological niches, which make pangolins the ideal intermediate host for some SARSr-CoV. Therefore, more systematic and long-term monitoring of other SARSr-CoV in pangolins and other related animals should be implemented to identify the potential animal source of 2019-nCoV in the current outbreak.

Due to the insatiable demand for their meat as a delicacy and scales for use in traditional medicine in China, Chinese pangolins are on the verge of extinction (http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/12764/0). The illegal smuggling of other pangolins from Southeast Asia to China is rampant14,15. Almost all pangolins in the illegal game market are Malayan pangolins, and the customs confiscates a large number of Malayan pangolins every year. International co-operation and stricter regulations against illegal wildlife trade and consumption of game meat should be implemented. They can offer stronger protection of endangered animals as well as the prevention of major outbreaks caused by SARSr-CoV.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.17.951335v1.full
 
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