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How many doses

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
There has been considerable misexplantion today of a matter relating to the packaging of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, a thing I had researched a couple of days ago from the formal documents prescribing vaccine handling (since I was curious as to how it was done). Here's the story.

The vaccine is distributed in "2 mL" glass vials. (That means they are intended to hold up to 2 mL of medication; the actual capacity "to the brim" is about 3.0 mL.) Each vial as shipped contains 0.2 mL of concentrated vaccine, frozen (to say the least).

Typically in the morning before beginning a vaccination session, the vials to be used are thawed, and 1.8 mL of 0.9% saline solution (AKA "normal saline") is injected into each vial (and yes, then 1.8 mL of air is drawn out to return the pressure inside to ambient). The vial now holds very nearly 2.0 mL of ready-to-use vaccine. (Very nearly? The two ingredients may not combine by volume exactly as we might think, so the quantity might be a little off that, even if the dilution is done precisely.)

The vial is prelabeled to indicate that it (after dilution) contains "five 0.3 mL doses". But that would ideally be a total of only 1.5 mL What about the other 0.5 mL? Well, seemingly, this was for "margin". For example, the person administering the injection might well draw a little more than 0.3 mL into the syringe and then shoot the excess into the air to get an exact load in the syringe. (Well, often in practice today, draw a lot extra . . .) And to do that, we by definition "waste" some of the content of the vial. And so the plan was likely to provide what might be a traditional amount of "margin" for this (and to deal with small errors in the dilution process).

Now some people had observed that with a reasonable amount of care, it should be possible to get six 0.3 mL doses out of a vial of diluted vaccine (and there is still some margin). And given that this vaccine is today so precious, maybe that would be a reasonable approach.

And I just heard on CNN, during one of the misexplanations of this, that the FDA has today said, in effect, "If you can get more than five doses out of a vial of properly-diluted vaccine, then do it."

Cool.

Best regards,

Doug
 
Last edited:

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
There has been considerable misexplantion today of a matter relating to the packaging of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, a thing I had researched a couple of days ago from the formal documents prescribing vaccine handling (since I was curious as to how it was done). Here's the story.

The vaccine is distributed in "2 mL" glass vials. (That means they are intended to hold up to 2 mL of medication; the actual capacity "to the brim" is about 3.0 mL.) Each vial as shipped contains 0.2 mL of concentrated vaccine, frozen (to say the least).

Typically in the morning before beginning a vaccination session, the vials to be used are thawed, and 1.8 mL of 0.9% saline solution (AKA "normal saline") is injected into each vial (and yes, then 1.8 mL of air is drawn out to return the pressure inside to ambient). The vial now holds very nearly 2.0 mL of ready-to-use vaccine. (Very nearly? The two ingredients may not combine by volume exactly as we might think, so the quantity might be a little off that, even if the dilution is done precisely.)

The vial is prelabeled to indicate that it (after dilution) contains "five 0.3 mL doses". But that would ideally be a total of only 1.5 mL What about the other 0.5 mL? Well, seemingly, this was for "margin". For example, the person administering the injection might well draw a little more than 0.3 mL into the syringe and then shoot the excess into the air to get an exact load in the syringe. (Well, often in practice today, draw a lot extra . . .) And to do that, we by definition "waste" some of the content of the vial. And so the plan was likely to provide what might be a traditional amount of "margin" for this (and to deal with small errors in the dilution process).

Now some people had observed that with a reasonable amount of care, it should be possible to get six 0.3 mL doses out of a vial of diluted vaccine (and there is still some margin). And given that this vaccine is today so precious, maybe that would be a reasonable approach.

And I just heard on CNN, during one of the misexplanations of this, that the FDA has today said, in effect, "If you can get more than five doses out of a vial of properly-diluted vaccine, then do it."

Cool.

Best regards,

Doug
It’s really wonderful. We are in desperate need and getting more vaccines out, means less will die.

in addition, I fear that hundreds of thousands of nurses and assistants will be battered permanently with mental scars of the stress of so many patients dying day in day out with no respite.

We are due for a massive epidemic of Post Traumatic Brain Injury from this extraordinary rain of senseless murders by SARS CoV-2!

Asher
 

Alex Johnson

New member
It seems to me that this supply of diluted vaccine (so to speak, "spare" 0.5 ml) is provided just for the fact that now the medical staff is exhausted by the fight against COVID and in this state there is a great risk of taking more vaccine preparations. Naturally, if the nurses are accurate, then from one bottle you can get almost 6 full doses of the drug. But it is not a fact that this will be allowed by the pharmaceutical company. After all, they sell 5 doses of the vaccine in one bottle.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
It seems to me that this supply of diluted vaccine (so to speak, "spare" 0.5 ml) is provided just for the fact that now the medical staff is exhausted by the fight against COVID and in this state there is a great risk of taking more vaccine preparations. Naturally, if the nurses are accurate, then from one bottle you can get almost 6 full doses of the drug. But it is not a fact that this will be allowed by the pharmaceutical company. After all, they sell 5 doses of the vaccine in one bottle.
I have checked this thoroughly.

CDC has authorized the 6 doses where the last one is 1.0 ml.

The Pharmaceutical company doesn’t care. Their profits are enough.

UCLA in and the Los Angeles County do get 6 doses.

Yes, it’s feasible to give a lesser portion in the first dose, but we are not doing that in Southern California.

Asher
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Asher,

I have checked this thoroughly.

CDC has authorized the 6 doses where the last one is 1.0 ml.
When the first five are 0.3 mL each? Woof!

Again, the story as I understand it is that when the vial is diluted as specified, there will be essentially 2.0 mL of ready-to-use vaccine in a vial. The standard dose is 0.3 mL. One could then get six 0.3 mL doses out of a vial, with 0.2 mL for "slack".

Again note that this is all based on the Pfizer vaccine protocol.

By way of comparison, 0.2 mL of Humalog insulin is what I shoot to get ready for Breakfast A.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi, Asher,



When the first five are 0.3 mL each? Woof!

Again, the story as I understand it is that when the vial is diluted as specified, there will be essentially 2.0 mL of ready-to-use vaccine in a vial. The standard dose is 0.3 mL. One could then get six 0.3 mL doses out of a vial, with 0.2 mL for "slack".

Again note that this is all based on the Pfizer vaccine protocol.

By way of comparison, 0.2 mL of Humalog insulin is what I shoot to get ready for Breakfast A.

Best regards,

Doug
The vial I believe contains 0.45 ml. It can be diluted to nake 6 full dose depending on volume per dose. Mine, I believe was was 1.0 ml.

Others might use small syringes and have a smaller volume but the same dose.

But if one measures carefully, a competent worker always gets 6 full doses!

Asher
 

Nicolas Claris

Administrator/Moderator
The Pharmaceutical company doesn’t care. Their profits are enough.
On the contrary, Pfizer cares, that's the reason they gave for reducing the number of vials to be delivered because governments ordered doses and not vials … (at least here in Europe)
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
On the contrary, Pfizer cares, that's the reason they gave for reducing the number of vials to be delivered because governments ordered doses and not vials … (at least here in Europe)
As it should be! Same with cameras & lenses. Europe always pays 20% more. That’s as it should be, LOL!

1611333491437.png
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I think we need national vaccine factories so that National Need is independant or at least somewhat competitive with private corporations!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Do you have a list of private corporations that manufacture vaccines ?
There are currently over 100 companies making some kind of vaccine against SARS CoV-2.

These are the top 10 in the West which European, US, Taiwan, Israel, Japan and the crest of the Western allies linked economies have complete trust, as well as major Indian companies which are highly respected and more integrated into the world markets.

[One has to take note of the massive “National” companies in China and Russia which have varying degree of transparency, accountability, adherence to our ideas of ethics & strictness in R&D.]

Top 10 Vaccine Manufacturers in the World 2020
1. GlaxoSmithKline
GlaxoSmithKline is one of the largest vaccine manufacturers in the world and was established in 1873 by Joseph Edward Nathan at Wellington, New Zealand. Presently, GlaxoSmithKline is headquartered at London, United Kingdom and the CEO is Emma Walmsley. GlaxoSmithKline regularly features at the top of the list of vaccine manufacturers and has an annual revenue of more than USD 35 billion. Around one million professionals are employed by this top vaccine company and the list of vaccines made by GlaxoSmithKline include Ambirix, Boostrix, Menjugate, Rabipur, and Varilix.

Find out GlaxoSmithKline’s market share in the global vaccine market

2. Merck & Co
Merck & Co is considered as among the top vaccine companies in the world and also one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world. Merck & Co was founded in 1891 by George Merck in the US. The headquarters of this leading vaccine manufacturer is at New Jersey, US and almost 70,000 individuals work for Merck & Co. The annual sales revenue of Merck & Co is estimated to be around USD 40 billion and some of the top-selling vaccines made by this top vaccine company are GARDASIL, RECOMBIVAX HB, RotaTeq, VARIVAX, and ZOSTAVAX.

3. Sanofi
Sanofi is another of the top vaccine manufacturers in the world specialized in research and development of highly effective vaccination for babies. Sanofi was established in 1973 as a subsidiary of Elf Aquitane. Subsequently, Sanofi later merged with Aventis in 2004 and changed its name to Sanofi in May 2011. The headquarters of this top vaccine company from France is at Paris and has more than 110,000 employees working around the world. The annual revenue of Sanofi is more than USD 40 billion and some of the top-selling list of vaccines made by the company are Act-HIB, Adacel-Polio, Pediacel, ViVAXIM, Quadracel, and YF-VAX.

View related market report sample: Global Travel Vaccines Market 2018-2022

4. Pfizer
On the leading list of vaccine manufacturers, Pfizer consistently ranks among the top 10 vaccine manufacturers in the world. Pfizer was founded in 1849 by Charles Pfizer and Charles F. Erhart with its head office located at New York, US. Pfizer is regarded as one of the top vaccine companies with a global presence and almost 98,000 professionals are employed with the company. The yearly revenue of Pfizer is around USD 50 billion, and the vaccine brands owned by the company include Prevnar 13, NeisVac-C, Mencevax, Nimenrix, and Trumenba.

5. Novavax
Novavax is another top vaccine manufacturer developing a comprehensive list of vaccines for more than three decades. Novavax was established in 1987 at Maryland, US as a clinical-stage biotech company. The annual revenue of Novavax was more than USD 22 billion at the end of 2017 and the top vaccine company is forecasted to experience a rapid growth over the next few years. The list of vaccines in the pipeline or manufactured by Novavax include RSV F, NanoFlu, and ResVax.

6. Emergent BioSolutions
Emergent BioSolutions is one of the top 10 vaccine manufacturers in the world and this top vaccine company develops antibody therapeutics and vaccines for infectious diseases, autoimmune disorders, and oncology. Emergent BioSolutions was founded in 1998 under the name of BioPort and is headquartered at Maryland, US. Emergent BioSolutions has an annual revenue of almost USD 600 million and approximately 1,300 employees work for the company from 13 global locations. The list of vaccines manufactured by Emergent BioSolutions include BioThrax, ACAM2000, FLU-IGIV, and UNI-FLU.

View related market report sample: Global Cephalosporin Drugs Market 2018-2022

7. CSL
CSL is a global vaccine manufacturer that emphasizes on researching and developing a comprehensive list of vaccines for the prevention of serious life-threatening diseases. CSL was incorporated in 1916 and the head office is located at Melbourne, Australia. CSL is estimated to have an annual sales revenue of almost USD 7 billion with more than 20,000 professionals employed across 60 countries. Some of the top-selling vaccines available from CSL are Fluvax, Panvax, Pneumovax, Tet-Tox, and Varivax.

8. Inovio Pharmaceuticals
Inovio Pharmaceuticals is a rapidly growing vaccine manufacturer in the list of vaccine manufacturers. Inovio Pharmaceuticals was established in 1979 and is headquartered at Plymouth, US. Inovio Pharmaceuticals has almost 300 employees and an estimated annual revenue of around USD 400 million. The list of vaccines developed by Inovio Pharmaceuticals include PENNVAX-B, VGX-3400, and INO-5401.

9. Bavarian Nordic
Bavarian Nordic is one of the top 10 vaccine manufacturers in the world and specializes in R&D of immunotherapies for cancer treatment and vaccines for infectious diseases. Bavarian Nordic was founded in 1994 and this leading vaccine company is headquartered at Kvistgaard, Denmark. Bavarian Nordic also has a R&D facility at Martinsried, Germany and employs around 500 professionals across the globe. Some of the notable vaccines made by Bavarian Nordic are IMVAMUNE, MVA-BN Filo, MVA-BN HPV, and MBA-BN RSV.

View related market report sample: Global Influenza Vaccine Market 2018-2022

10. Mitsubishi Tanabe
Mitsubishi Tanabe is among the leading vaccine manufacturers in the world and is a part of the Mitsubishi Chemical Holdings Group. Mitsubishi Tanabe was established in 1981 after the merger between Tokyo Tanabe and Mitsubishi Chemicals and has around 2,000 professionals employed with this top vaccine company. The list of vaccines made by Mitsubishi Tanabe are TETRABIK, JEBIK V, Mearubik, and Varicella vaccine.
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
There are currently over 100 companies making some kind of vaccine against SARS CoV-2.

These are the top 10 in the West which European, US, Taiwan, Israel, Japan and the crest of the Western allies linked economies have complete trust, as well as major Indian companies which are highly respected and more integrated into the world markets.

[One has to take note of the massive “National” companies in China and Russia which have varying degree of transparency, accountability, adherence to our ideas of ethics & strictness in R&D.]

Top 10 Vaccine Manufacturers in the World 2020
1. GlaxoSmithKline
GlaxoSmithKline is one of the largest vaccine manufacturers in the world and was established in 1873 by Joseph Edward Nathan at Wellington, New Zealand. Presently, GlaxoSmithKline is headquartered at London, United Kingdom and the CEO is Emma Walmsley. GlaxoSmithKline regularly features at the top of the list of vaccine manufacturers and has an annual revenue of more than USD 35 billion. Around one million professionals are employed by this top vaccine company and the list of vaccines made by GlaxoSmithKline include Ambirix, Boostrix, Menjugate, Rabipur, and Varilix.

Find out GlaxoSmithKline’s market share in the global vaccine market

2. Merck & Co
Merck & Co is considered as among the top vaccine companies in the world and also one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world. Merck & Co was founded in 1891 by George Merck in the US. The headquarters of this leading vaccine manufacturer is at New Jersey, US and almost 70,000 individuals work for Merck & Co. The annual sales revenue of Merck & Co is estimated to be around USD 40 billion and some of the top-selling vaccines made by this top vaccine company are GARDASIL, RECOMBIVAX HB, RotaTeq, VARIVAX, and ZOSTAVAX.

3. Sanofi
Sanofi is another of the top vaccine manufacturers in the world specialized in research and development of highly effective vaccination for babies. Sanofi was established in 1973 as a subsidiary of Elf Aquitane. Subsequently, Sanofi later merged with Aventis in 2004 and changed its name to Sanofi in May 2011. The headquarters of this top vaccine company from France is at Paris and has more than 110,000 employees working around the world. The annual revenue of Sanofi is more than USD 40 billion and some of the top-selling list of vaccines made by the company are Act-HIB, Adacel-Polio, Pediacel, ViVAXIM, Quadracel, and YF-VAX.

View related market report sample: Global Travel Vaccines Market 2018-2022

4. Pfizer
On the leading list of vaccine manufacturers, Pfizer consistently ranks among the top 10 vaccine manufacturers in the world. Pfizer was founded in 1849 by Charles Pfizer and Charles F. Erhart with its head office located at New York, US. Pfizer is regarded as one of the top vaccine companies with a global presence and almost 98,000 professionals are employed with the company. The yearly revenue of Pfizer is around USD 50 billion, and the vaccine brands owned by the company include Prevnar 13, NeisVac-C, Mencevax, Nimenrix, and Trumenba.

5. Novavax
Novavax is another top vaccine manufacturer developing a comprehensive list of vaccines for more than three decades. Novavax was established in 1987 at Maryland, US as a clinical-stage biotech company. The annual revenue of Novavax was more than USD 22 billion at the end of 2017 and the top vaccine company is forecasted to experience a rapid growth over the next few years. The list of vaccines in the pipeline or manufactured by Novavax include RSV F, NanoFlu, and ResVax.

6. Emergent BioSolutions
Emergent BioSolutions is one of the top 10 vaccine manufacturers in the world and this top vaccine company develops antibody therapeutics and vaccines for infectious diseases, autoimmune disorders, and oncology. Emergent BioSolutions was founded in 1998 under the name of BioPort and is headquartered at Maryland, US. Emergent BioSolutions has an annual revenue of almost USD 600 million and approximately 1,300 employees work for the company from 13 global locations. The list of vaccines manufactured by Emergent BioSolutions include BioThrax, ACAM2000, FLU-IGIV, and UNI-FLU.

View related market report sample: Global Cephalosporin Drugs Market 2018-2022

7. CSL
CSL is a global vaccine manufacturer that emphasizes on researching and developing a comprehensive list of vaccines for the prevention of serious life-threatening diseases. CSL was incorporated in 1916 and the head office is located at Melbourne, Australia. CSL is estimated to have an annual sales revenue of almost USD 7 billion with more than 20,000 professionals employed across 60 countries. Some of the top-selling vaccines available from CSL are Fluvax, Panvax, Pneumovax, Tet-Tox, and Varivax.

8. Inovio Pharmaceuticals
Inovio Pharmaceuticals is a rapidly growing vaccine manufacturer in the list of vaccine manufacturers. Inovio Pharmaceuticals was established in 1979 and is headquartered at Plymouth, US. Inovio Pharmaceuticals has almost 300 employees and an estimated annual revenue of around USD 400 million. The list of vaccines developed by Inovio Pharmaceuticals include PENNVAX-B, VGX-3400, and INO-5401.

9. Bavarian Nordic
Bavarian Nordic is one of the top 10 vaccine manufacturers in the world and specializes in R&D of immunotherapies for cancer treatment and vaccines for infectious diseases. Bavarian Nordic was founded in 1994 and this leading vaccine company is headquartered at Kvistgaard, Denmark. Bavarian Nordic also has a R&D facility at Martinsried, Germany and employs around 500 professionals across the globe. Some of the notable vaccines made by Bavarian Nordic are IMVAMUNE, MVA-BN Filo, MVA-BN HPV, and MBA-BN RSV.

View related market report sample: Global Influenza Vaccine Market 2018-2022

10. Mitsubishi Tanabe
Mitsubishi Tanabe is among the leading vaccine manufacturers in the world and is a part of the Mitsubishi Chemical Holdings Group. Mitsubishi Tanabe was established in 1981 after the merger between Tokyo Tanabe and Mitsubishi Chemicals and has around 2,000 professionals employed with this top vaccine company. The list of vaccines made by Mitsubishi Tanabe are TETRABIK, JEBIK V, Mearubik, and Varicella vaccine.
These are not private corporations you must have misunderstood?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Do you have a list of private corporations that manufacture vaccines ?
James,

let me translate your question to,

“Don't you realize that the need for Vaccine Design and manufacture is already adequately taken care of by Commercial enterprises?

If that is what you meant by your question, then my answer is as follows:

In this pandemic, our slowness to gear up with production of vaccine resulted in a million extra deaths, massive economic losses and emergence of more virulent virus variants.

The latter is just a mathematical expectation that occurs as there’s ~1 mutation in every 3 transfers of the virus and with every 2-20 million infected a more virulent variant that infects folk 5-10 x more effectively and increases mortality by as much as 40%.

So there is huge economic and health advantages to getting control of virus spread very early.

This can only be done if there are National Factories already working on new vaccines with ready to go massive production capacity to give a boost to commercial operators as the R&D for production and initial vaccine can be provide faster as there is no economic risk to corporations.

Various countries can divide the risk and share the technology and provide it to competent corporations so that world production can be enormous and governments take the initial risks and economic losses to prevent the massive costs of slow response.

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
These are not private corporations you must have misunderstood?
I didn’t misunderstand. We just look at different nomenclature.

For this matter, actual names don’t matter. These are just legal classes of corporations.

Either vaccine companies are for profit such as the ten listed or else they are State run as in China. [The Welcome Trust, is a Charity, but too small on the world stage.]

As far as getting vaccine “private” ie non-State corporations need a likely profit and are united in necessary introspection and caution in weighing diversion of resources into questionable drug/vaccine needs.

State companies, uniquely, don’t have such restrictions if they are part of the States strategic policy to prevent disruption of society.

So James, forgive me, but for me “Private” means “Capitalist” and not State controlled!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
I didn’t misunderstand. We just look at different nomenclature.

For this matter, actual names don’t matter. These are just legal classes of corporations.

Either vaccine companies are for profit such as the ten listed or else they are State run as in China. [The Welcome Trust, is a Charity, but too small on the world stage.]

As far as getting vaccine “private” ie non-State corporations need a likely profit and are united in necessary introspection and caution in weighing diversion of resources into questionable drug/vaccine needs.

State companies, uniquely, don’t have such restrictions if they are part of the States strategic policy to prevent disruption of society.

So James, forgive me, but for me “Private” means “Capitalist” and not State controlled!

Asher
No private means a company that is not publicly traded. However it is free market systems that solve problems and yes companies can respond much quicker than any government can.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Regarding the Moderna vaccine, the best information available to me is that this is supplied in vials "rated" to yield ten 0.5 mL doses, frozen as delivered. It is ready to use once thawed; no dilution is involved. I do not know the nominal "charge" of the vials.

It seems as if it may often be practical to draw 11 0.5 mL does from a vial. Various authorities have authorized proceeding on that basis.

This typically involves holding the syringe so that the needle just extends a tiny way through the stopper when loading the syringe.

I have no information on the Coors and Nikon vaccines.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
No private means a company that is not publicly traded. However it is free market systems that solve problems and yes companies can respond much quicker than any government can.
But companies can’t take initial highly speculative risks governments can! That’s why we need we’ll funded National vaccine companies too, (linked to Academic institutions), and they can feed technology to commercial, (=capitalist, for profit), companies.

Furthermore, at least in the USA, in emergencies, we can simply order commercial companies to manufacture whatever we wish, but we pay them to protect them from all losses!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
But companies can’t take initial highly speculative risks governments can! That’s why we need we’ll funded National vaccine companies too, (linked to Academic institutions), and they can feed technology to commercial, (=capitalist, for profit), companies.

Furthermore, at least in the USA, in emergencies, we can simply order commercial companies to manufacture whatever we wish, but we pay them to protect them from all losses!

Asher
Taking non peer reviewed vaccines is a risk.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Turns out that Pfizer’s contract with the US government was actually written as “cost/dose” not cost /vial, so the US will pay accordingly!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
Turns out that Pfizer’s contract with the US government was actually written as “cost/dose” not cost /vial, so the US will pay accordingly!

Asher
Its expensive compared to the others and if you need a software upgrade for yourself it could get really expensive.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Part of the technique of making more complete use of the contents of a vaccine vial is the matter of the "dead space" of the syringe-needle combination in use. That is the amount of liquid not expelled from the syringe when the plunger is depressed all the way.

That is of course taken into account in the markings on the syringe barrel, so when the plunger is depressed all the way the desired amount of liquid is delivered. But in setting up the syringe to deliver that dose, a slightly larger amount of the liquid has actually been withdrawn from the vial, as some of it will be left in the syringe when the plunger bottoms.

Evidently not all the syringes that are in use in this vaccination program have small dead spaces, and there is seemingly a shortage of that type in appropriate sizes. I understand that one initiative is to propel an increase in the manufacture of low dead space syringe-needle combinations of the needed sizes.

The other part of the ploy is that the syringe-needle and the vial need to be held so that the needle only extends a small distance through the rubber "stopper" of the vial. Experienced personnel are able to do this easily (that must be done with one hand, and the needles typically used here are fairly long). But they don't necessarily enjoy it.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Doug,

it’s not that complicated. That “dose” is assumed to be the actual accurate dose +/- 20% approximately.

The minimum “effective dose” is likely 65% or so of the published dose to

We know that the measuring is always inaccurate.

If we actually gave the “minimum effective dose” to a large population, half the people wouldn’t be effectively immunized as planned as one cannot dispense volumes accurately to mass populations unless all syringes are pre-loaded in an accurate syringe.

So we give “much more“, knowing that then those who get “much less”, will still get “enough”!

Asher
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Asher,
Doug,

it’s not that complicated. That “dose” is assumed to be the actual accurate dose +/- 20% approximately.

We know that the measuring is inaccurate.
I would be embarrassed to think in terms of ±20% dose accuracy!

For example, tomorrow morning, in preparation for "Breakfast C", I will shoot 0.25 mL of insulin (using a 0.3 mL syringe). My syringe is marked in units of 0.005 mL. I believe that my dosing is accurate to ±0.005 mL, or ± 2%.

But then I'm not a medical professional!

I realize that there may be other factors involved in the true effective dosing.

By the way, the syringes I use are low dead space, good since the "price" of the insulin is about $50.00/mL. (I don't pay that directly; most of that is paid by my Medicare Part D plan.) I typically discard a vial (nominally 10 mL) when there is only about 0.1 mL remaining (a 1% waste).

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
The insulin is much more stable and standardized.

The vaccine is being put in arms by workers with a variety of medical experience and competence.

Syringes are garnished from diverse supply chains and manufacturors here and abroad.

This was the state of Art when the “Phase One” and “Phase Two” and Three data were collected and analyzed.

Yet it “worked”!

So that’s what we repeat with a mass vaccination campaign!

Sort of like the “dose of canon balls” needed to knock down a castle wall! Very sloppy trajectories, overcome reliably by simply firing double the “required” dose of canon balls, the engineers recommend!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
The first single-dose COVID-19 vaccine could get emergency approval in just two weeks, Dr. Anthony Fauci said late Friday.

J&J's other advantage is that it can be stored at regular refrigerator temperatures, unlike the Pfizer vaccine, which needs special deep freezers.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
The first single-dose COVID-19 vaccine could get emergency approval in just two weeks, Dr. Anthony Fauci said late Friday.

J&J's other advantage is that it can be stored at regular refrigerator temperatures, unlike the Pfizer vaccine, which needs special deep freezers.
OTOH, it’s 30% less effective AFAIK!
 
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