Will Thompson
Member
The first time I used one slice and should have used 1/2 brick of butter.
The old range top rusted after 40+years
The old range top rusted after 40+years
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My second attempt at MAC & Cheese on our new range top
- Thread starter Will Thompson
- Start date
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I have always wondered what “Mac & Cheese” looked like! Not a thing when I grew up in London, LOL!
I knew about Macdonald so I thought it was something like that. I have even heard my grandkids talk about that coif but I expected it to come in bag not freaky made on a home cook stove!
Looks tasty!
Asher
I knew about Macdonald so I thought it was something like that. I have even heard my grandkids talk about that coif but I expected it to come in bag not freaky made on a home cook stove!
Looks tasty!
Asher
Will Thompson
Member
Robert Watcher
Well-known member
We Canadians refer to the staple simpl6 as “KD”
Interesting factoid - “The brand is particularly popular with Canadians, who consume 55% more boxes per capita than Americans.“
HISTORY : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraft_Dinner
Interesting factoid - “The brand is particularly popular with Canadians, who consume 55% more boxes per capita than Americans.“
HISTORY : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraft_Dinner
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Jerome Marot
Well-known member
Isn't this simply macaroni with a cheese béchamel sauce?
Doug Kerr
Well-known member
Hi, Jérôme,
Whether the usual sauce found with this dish would qualify as a "béchamel sauce" is beyond my ken, but it is indeed cooked macaroni with some sort of cheese sauce.
Some writings suggest that the most common sauce formulation could be considered akin to mornay sauce, which I understand is basically béchamel sauce with cheese added.
It is often denigrated as some sort of "poor man's dinner", but it can be very delicious when properly prepared. And the classical "Kraft" kit makes quite a tasty dish.
Best regards,
Doug
Whether the usual sauce found with this dish would qualify as a "béchamel sauce" is beyond my ken, but it is indeed cooked macaroni with some sort of cheese sauce.
Some writings suggest that the most common sauce formulation could be considered akin to mornay sauce, which I understand is basically béchamel sauce with cheese added.
It is often denigrated as some sort of "poor man's dinner", but it can be very delicious when properly prepared. And the classical "Kraft" kit makes quite a tasty dish.
Best regards,
Doug
Jerome Marot
Well-known member
I looked it up.
Indeed some recipes use Mornay sauce for mac and cheese but some recipes for Mornay sauce add egg yolks, which Kraft foods definitely does not use. Kraft foods also uses processed cheese, cheese with added melting salts.
The recipe is not common in France or Germany, although the imported US packs are available. I found this equivalent in Germany:
In France, this kind of pasta is only available in a smaller version, called "coquillettes" and "Macaroni" are straight tubes (like the Italians "Maccheroni"). We do eat these with cheese, but usually "gratiné".
Indeed some recipes use Mornay sauce for mac and cheese but some recipes for Mornay sauce add egg yolks, which Kraft foods definitely does not use. Kraft foods also uses processed cheese, cheese with added melting salts.
The recipe is not common in France or Germany, although the imported US packs are available. I found this equivalent in Germany:
In France, this kind of pasta is only available in a smaller version, called "coquillettes" and "Macaroni" are straight tubes (like the Italians "Maccheroni"). We do eat these with cheese, but usually "gratiné".
Will Thompson
Member
35 years ago Golden Grain elbow Mac & Cheese was a staple of my bachelor diet.
The Golden Grain cheese sauce tasted way better than the Kraft!
I have not been able to find any of the Golden Grain Mac & Cheese in recent years!
Sometimes I would add protein such as hotdogs pork sausage or canned tuna. The tuna I would just stir in after making the Mac & Cheese after draining the water from it. The sausage or hotdogs I would cook with boiling water then use the hot water to cook the macaroni then stir in the meat and cut it into small chunks with the spoon I was stirring with.
As a bachelor I would run out of butter and milk so I would substitute sour cream yogurt and even cooking oil sometimes. The one thing that made it inedible was when I used peanut oil, that time I threw it out as I could not eat it!
When I told my friend Jim about the tuna he gasped tuna casserole l told him the secret was to not cook it a second time and eat the fresh canned tuna after stirring it in!
The Golden Grain cheese sauce tasted way better than the Kraft!
I have not been able to find any of the Golden Grain Mac & Cheese in recent years!
Sometimes I would add protein such as hotdogs pork sausage or canned tuna. The tuna I would just stir in after making the Mac & Cheese after draining the water from it. The sausage or hotdogs I would cook with boiling water then use the hot water to cook the macaroni then stir in the meat and cut it into small chunks with the spoon I was stirring with.
As a bachelor I would run out of butter and milk so I would substitute sour cream yogurt and even cooking oil sometimes. The one thing that made it inedible was when I used peanut oil, that time I threw it out as I could not eat it!
When I told my friend Jim about the tuna he gasped tuna casserole l told him the secret was to not cook it a second time and eat the fresh canned tuna after stirring it in!
Doug Kerr
Well-known member
Hi, Will,
A great set of stories! Thanks.
I think Golden Grain (of Rice-A-Roni fame) no longer makes the Macaroni and Cheese dinner.
But they do publish a suggested recipe for that dish:
goldengrainpasta.com/recipe/old-fashioned-baked-macaroni-and-cheese
As an interesting side issue, It seems that for a while they owned the Ghirardelli Chocolate business.
Best regards,
Doug
A great set of stories! Thanks.
I think Golden Grain (of Rice-A-Roni fame) no longer makes the Macaroni and Cheese dinner.
But they do publish a suggested recipe for that dish:
goldengrainpasta.com/recipe/old-fashioned-baked-macaroni-and-cheese
As an interesting side issue, It seems that for a while they owned the Ghirardelli Chocolate business.
Best regards,
Doug
Jerome Marot
Well-known member
That recipe is indeed Béchamel sauce (with mustard), but I use half the amount of butter.
There is a trick to make Béchamel sauce without the lumps. Heat the butter, toss the flour and let it roast to a golden colour. Then add a bit of milk to dilute the paste and then add the whole rest of the milk and stir vigorously, so that the flour is spread into the whole volume of milk.
At that point, you have an emulsion of flour in milk and you want to cook it so that the flour sets and gives a thick sauce. So you turn down the heat and stir all the time till the sauce thickens. You stir so that you get a constant temperature over the whole volume. If you don't stir, the bottom will overheat, cook earlier and that layer of overcooked sauce will give the lumps.
If you miss and get lumps, use a blender...
I would also not add the grated cheese to the Béchamel sauce, that is not likely to work. I would mix the pasta and the grated cheese and then add the Béchamel sauce. The cheese will melt in the oven.
There is a trick to make Béchamel sauce without the lumps. Heat the butter, toss the flour and let it roast to a golden colour. Then add a bit of milk to dilute the paste and then add the whole rest of the milk and stir vigorously, so that the flour is spread into the whole volume of milk.
At that point, you have an emulsion of flour in milk and you want to cook it so that the flour sets and gives a thick sauce. So you turn down the heat and stir all the time till the sauce thickens. You stir so that you get a constant temperature over the whole volume. If you don't stir, the bottom will overheat, cook earlier and that layer of overcooked sauce will give the lumps.
If you miss and get lumps, use a blender...
I would also not add the grated cheese to the Béchamel sauce, that is not likely to work. I would mix the pasta and the grated cheese and then add the Béchamel sauce. The cheese will melt in the oven.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Jérôme,
With Bechamel I now see a dinner grade dish not just for ourselves in private, but for guests too with some sort of attractive garnish and perhaps pieces of chewable or shippable.
Whet do you tink about a more formal and attractive guest worthy presentation and whet comnercielmpavksgecelukdctiy base it on or wound those fresh made from grocery components?
Asher
With Bechamel I now see a dinner grade dish not just for ourselves in private, but for guests too with some sort of attractive garnish and perhaps pieces of chewable or shippable.
Whet do you tink about a more formal and attractive guest worthy presentation and whet comnercielmpavksgecelukdctiy base it on or wound those fresh made from grocery components?
Asher
Will Thompson
Member
Now if we could get everyone to post a final picture of their version of Mac & Cheese!
Jerome Marot
Well-known member
I have never cooked Mac & Cheese and I don't intend to in the near future. I use cheese and Béchamel sauce, but rather use cauliflower instead of pasta. I'll try to remember to take a picture the next time, but it will have to wait till cauliflower is in season.
Jerome Marot
Well-known member
Béchamel sauce is, normally, 30g of butter, 40g of flour and half a litter of milk. That means it is basically thicker milk and the taste is very light. It can be poured on freshly cooked vegetables and then looks fancy, but the taste is not extremely interesting. You would need to add more flavour to it, maybe by adding cheese, which is then sauce Mornay as Doug explained. But only some cheeses work for that purpose, melting cheese is tricky.
The classical use for Béchamel sauce is gratin: you top a dish with it, add some grated Gruyère or similar hard cheese and grill it till light brown.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I think what I remember was Mousaka, a Greek layered dish. Something like this which served in Greek restaurants in Boston.
The Greek dish is traditional and is a technically achieved gustatory miracles each layer matured it’s consistency and flavors and the matters migrate between the layers.
The Greek bechamel is unlike any other! II has it a distinct captivating flavor which the attraction!
But biting into a slice of the layered dish is a fusion of distinct textures, flavors and aromas that generate and active living orchestration of gustatory delight!
The technical cooking science of the process is described here.
Essentially it’s glorified bechamel and Mac & cheese, (replacing traditional eggplant), separated by seasoned meat,
That’s a dinner for guests!
Asher
Will Thompson
Member
I think what I remember was Mousaka, a Greek layered dish. Something like this which served in Greek restaurants in Boston.
The Greek dish is traditional and is a technically achieved gustatory miracles each layer matured it’s consistency and flavors and the matters migrate between the layers.
The Greek bechamel is unlike any other! II has it a distinct captivating flavor which the attraction!
But biting into a slice of the layered dish is a fusion of distinct textures, flavors and aromas that generate and active living orchestration of gustatory delight!
The technical cooking science of the process is described here.
Essentially it’s glorified bechamel and Mac & cheese separated by seasoned meat,
That’s a dinner for guests!
Asher
Asher that is actually lasagna with another name!
Jerome Marot
Well-known member
According to Greek colleagues, there is no pasta in Moussaka. Some people use potato slices, but the real stuff only uses eggplant slices. One of the tricks is to treat the eggplant slices with salt for an hour, so that they reject a bitter liquid (which is less bitter in modern cultivars, but still...).
Italians have a similar dish with different spices and no meat (just tomato sauce) called melanzane. It may be a better choice if one's religious practice imposes strict separation between milk and dairy products.
The image you posted appears to be AI-generated and shows lasagna, as Will noted.
Italians have a similar dish with different spices and no meat (just tomato sauce) called melanzane. It may be a better choice if one's religious practice imposes strict separation between milk and dairy products.
The image you posted appears to be AI-generated and shows lasagna, as Will noted.
Will Thompson
Member
Jerome, thanks for all your comments , it makes the forum much more interesting and enjoyable.
On the eggplant front I don’t eat it but my wife likes it and when we BBQ she buys the Japanese version and we grill it until it bursts which makes it impossible to overcook it if you are paying attention at all.
My wife is half Japanese & half Redneck!
When she gets the lager local larger style we slice it into disks and grill it like a hamburger patty and put stake seasoning on it. She eats it plain but I don’t eat it at all. I prefer grilled zucchini & tomato slices for my veggies.
On the eggplant front I don’t eat it but my wife likes it and when we BBQ she buys the Japanese version and we grill it until it bursts which makes it impossible to overcook it if you are paying attention at all.
My wife is half Japanese & half Redneck!
When she gets the lager local larger style we slice it into disks and grill it like a hamburger patty and put stake seasoning on it. She eats it plain but I don’t eat it at all. I prefer grilled zucchini & tomato slices for my veggies.
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Will’s appreciation of Jérôme’s presence here is seconded!
Nérome I have always valued your wise and interesting contributions. Again, thanks my friend!
From the linking my post #15, above:
“Chef Tselementes would revolutionize Greek cookery in the early 20th century. His unique version of the dish would catapult Moussaka to global popularity. Tselementes added béchamel sauce to the recipe, delivering a creamy, sumptuous dimension to the Moussaka that previously centred around eggplant and minced meat. He wanted to elevate traditional Greek dishes to a gourmet level, inspired by his training in Vienna and France, and his Moussaka was the pièce de résistance of his culinary renaissance.”
Nérome I have always valued your wise and interesting contributions. Again, thanks my friend!
From the linking my post #15, above:
“Chef Tselementes would revolutionize Greek cookery in the early 20th century. His unique version of the dish would catapult Moussaka to global popularity. Tselementes added béchamel sauce to the recipe, delivering a creamy, sumptuous dimension to the Moussaka that previously centred around eggplant and minced meat. He wanted to elevate traditional Greek dishes to a gourmet level, inspired by his training in Vienna and France, and his Moussaka was the pièce de résistance of his culinary renaissance.”
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Jérôme,
What suggested this was AI generated?
I missed it, but ChatGPT, concludes:
Asher
What suggested this was AI generated?
I missed it, but ChatGPT, concludes:
- Likely AI-generated, though high-end CGI or stylized photography can't be ruled out without metadata.
- Clue cluster:
- Unreal cheese melt
- Stylized garnish
- Over-perfection in layer symmetry
- Hyper-controlled lighting with no natural scatter
- It matches aesthetic patterns typical of AI outputs from Midjourney or DALL·E food prompts.
Asher
Doug Kerr
Well-known member
We often have mac and cheese as a side dish here. Larry (our resident chef, among many other things) gets it pre-made in some sort of package - Ill ask him exactly what it is. He may modify it - he often does with factory prepared entrees, to wonderful effect. It is in any case very tasty.
I'll try to catch a photo of it from the next time it appears.
Best regards,
Doug
I'll try to catch a photo of it from the next time it appears.
Best regards,
Doug
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Doug Kerr
Well-known member
Hi, Asher
I'm not sure what type of metadata would be of forensic import here.
I'm not sure what "Over-perfection in layer symmetry" alludes to. But it is an impressive phrase (as we expect from contemporary 'bots).
As for me, I would like to call attention to the hyperbolism of the frammis in this photo.
Best regards,
Doug
I'm not sure what type of metadata would be of forensic import here.
I'm not sure what "Over-perfection in layer symmetry" alludes to. But it is an impressive phrase (as we expect from contemporary 'bots).
As for me, I would like to call attention to the hyperbolism of the frammis in this photo.
Best regards,
Doug
Jerome Marot
Well-known member
Typical AI light, cheese and Béchamel do not flow like this (this looks more the way McDonalds stylises mayonnaise and ketchup), minced meat is not believable and no cook in their right mind will put all the pasta layers together.
Lasagna alternates layers of pasta and minced meat sauce.
Jerome Marot
Well-known member
Coming back to that post of yours, I realized I had not checked the link. The recipes in the links appear to me -how shall I put that politely?- written by people who have not tried cooking the recipes themselves.
As to Moussaka, about 40 years ago, I got a recipe from a Greek colleague who got it from his mother. That recipe involved topping the Moussaka with Béchamel sauce. Probably the original recipe of centuries ago did not involve Béchamel sauce topping and did not involve Gruyère as neither fresh milk nor much cheese beyond Feta would have been available in Greece at that time, but the idea to top Moussaka with Béchamel sauce was known 50 years ago.